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This week's Essentials Jr. Pick...Huh? Really?

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>Let's also not forget that classic things are not appealing to everyone. It's a niche market. We don't need everyone to like what we like.

 

This comment does not ring true to me. I think TCM's programmers are attempting to make classic films appealing to as many people as possible. In this case, it is the younger demographic. There would not be an Essentials Jr. programming block each week if TCM was not attempting to market its brand to kids.

 

The reason I began this thread is because I don't think all the titles they are selecting for Essentials Jr. help accomplish TCM's goal of reaching kids. What we have seen lately: not necessarily the best titles for this series. Some of the films are right on target, but others simply are all wrong for this format (just like Abbott & Costello was in my opinion a weak entry in the Arab Images series). It should not be that a film and its inclusion in a special series turns off a potential viewer.

 

If colorizing a film gives it broader appeal to kids, then why not do that, as long as you still provide the original black-and-white print for those that prefer it in the original version. Comparing colorizing to pan-and-scan involves the same set of artistic principles. But commercially, these are two opposite issues. I do not think pan-and-scan is done to appeal to a wider audience. It is more an economic decision. Conversely, colorizing a film actually costs a studio money and it would be cheaper if they did not have to do it in order to re-market a film to modern audiences.

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>Essentials Jr. is suppose to be for kids of all ages according to the schedule.

 

Correct. And that is why at the very beginning of the discussion I noted that the A&C title would appeal to kids of all ages.

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*If colorizing a film gives it broader appeal to kids, then why not do that, as long as you still provide the original black-and-white print for those that prefer it in the original version. Comparing colorizing to pan-and-scan involves the same set of artistic principles.*

 

Neither is aestehtically nor ethically defensible, whatever the reasons for its use.

 

 

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Neither is aestehtically nor ethically defensible, whatever the reasons for its use.

 

Or else/in addition, get that guy featured in one of the TCM Fanatic shorts to strip the soundtrack for the films and have him replace it with something more relevent to today's youth.

 

Every time that I see that short I cringe.

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Please, folks, I am not the big bad wolf here. I am guessing the sales of Fox's Shirley Temple discs have been fairly good or else they would not keep reissuing it in black-and-white _and_ color.

 

I am merely commenting on a commercial trend. We can get all high-brow and say 'tsk-tsk that's wrong,' but the point is that parents are buying those discs and kids are watching them. Wouldn't we rather have kids enjoying classic films, than for Shirley Temple's movies to wind up as museum pieces?

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*Wouldn't we rather have kids enjoying classic films, than for Shirley Temple's movies to wind up as museum pieces?*

 

So will they REALLY be "enjoying classic films" or something that was artistically tampered with? It only sends the message that classic films are less than, unless they are somehow made more palatable. Believe me, expose kids to the real thing at the right age and they 'get it'.

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Your comment does not make sense to me. Even if a film has been colorized, a child can still enjoy the basic story and characters.

 

I think I have said that I personally am not a fan of colorizing old movies, but I can see why studios do it to increase home video sales.

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Don't worry, I know what you're sayin' here, Top ol' boy. You've FIRST have to grab their little minds and THEN maybe once they're hooked, it might be possible they'll search out the source (original) material and eventually gain more of an aprreciation for that.

 

Yep, it's kind'a like a quote I remember being attributed to Arthur Fielder, the long time conductor of the Boston Pops...I believe it went something like: "It's always nice whenever I can have people who aren't classical music fans come into our hall whistling Sousa but leave humming Beethoven."

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Well, that's one way of looking at it, Dargo. :)

 

Thanks for the fresh perspective. LOL

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You are no more going to get the vast majority of kids to watch old, classic movies than you are to get them to listen to Cole Porter. Any attempt to do so will fail. There are kids that are just going to find it interesting or not. Using all sorts of gimmicks to try to "lure them in" is destined to fail.

 

I'm surprised that any film lover would condone "colorizing" -- which is about as unnatural as it gets -- in any way, shape or form. I find that simply astonishing.

 

Not liking black and white fiilms is not confined to the young. I have a couple 60-something female friends who won't watch black and white movies or musicals as they say "people aren't black and white and they don't sing in public."

 

What would one suggest for that? Take out the musical numbers in those classic films?

 

Cathy Cartee

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Pardon me, but I think you are somewhat the "big bad wolf." You are defending colorizing and pan and scan but seemingly hiding behind sales figures. I don't really get it. What difference do the sales figures have to do with whether or not it's right or wrong?

 

No, I wouldn't rather have kids -- and have you provided any actual evidence to support your contention that the colorized films are selling and kids are watching them? -- watch some bastardized attempt to spoon feed them some films.

 

Cathy Cartee

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Except if you take the original premise that kids don't like watching black and white films, how is showing them a colorized film going to ever lead them to liking black and white films? It would seem that all it will do is make them insist on all black and white films be shown in a colorized version. Once you give someone something they want in a certain form (chewable tasty vitamins) you can never get them to go back and enjoy something in the less palatable way.

 

This thread makes absolutely no sense.

 

Cathy Cartee

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> {quote:title=Filmgoddess wrote:}{quote}

> This thread makes absolutely no sense.

And yet ye have come down from the mountain top to reply to it not once, but three times in a row. How gracious of you.

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>I'm surprised that any film lover would condone "colorizing" -- which is about as unnatural as it gets -- in any way, shape or form.

 

I don't think I have condoned colorizing of classic films. Actually, I posted that I can understand why studios resort to that practice. Disagree with the studio bosses, not with me. I am not colorizing films.

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>I think you are somewhat the "big bad wolf."

 

Again, I think you need to take it up with the studio bosses. They are the villains in your story.

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>This thread makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

As you hang around these boards more and more, you will find that statement applies quite often.

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Yeah, uh, to get back to the original topic, my guess is that some of these Essential, Jr. films that make us scratch our head in bewilderment were chosen by the respective hosts (Hader & Lithgow before him). They were probably movies that they liked when they were kids. Just a hunch but I could be wrong. I personally think they should show "The Pain and the Sorrow"--an early talkie from Sweden (subtitled) about two octogenarians living in a rest home wistfully remembering all the painful & sorrowful moments they've experienced over the years.

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I do not believe that this new TCM is EVER going to get your message. These people are not willing to admit that there is an inevitable divide between the dedicated *true* classic movie fan and the younger crowd that TCM is trying to separate from its money. This is not going to work and never *will* work. In my opinion, TCM should stop its inevitable futile efforts to redefine the classic movie to snare those who cannot now, and never will, identify with the "culture" of the classic movie fan. Will giving them such political propagandizing "classic" movie as Three Kings (recently shown here, released in 1999) with the "name" idol George Clooney do the trick? I think not. Until the next such movie (or something similarly appealing to the youngsters) comes along.

 

 

Gerald

 

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>I do not believe that this new TCM is EVER going to get your message. These people are not willing to admit that there is an inevitable divide between the dedicated true classic movie fan and the younger crowd

 

Do you really feel that way? Then why watch TCM and post on its message boards? I am not suggesting you go away, but I do think you must find some value in TCM or else you would not hang around.

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*"In my opinion, TCM should stop its inevitable futile efforts to redefine the classic movie to snare those who cannot now, and never will, identify with the "culture" of the classic movie fan. Will giving them such political propagandizing "classic" movie as Three Kings (recently shown here, released in 1999) with the "name" idol George Clooney do the trick? I think not."* - 'gr'

 

"In the proper context, TCM will program virtually any film. If TCM is presenting a night of "Great Prison Break Movies", then it would be perfectly appropriate for TCM to show *The Shawshank Redemption*. It is a great film. But we don't program such fare without that over riding reason or simply because we want to show recent films.

It is always about the context."

Tom Brown, V.P. of Original Programming for TCM

TCM Classic Film Festival, April 2011

 

*The Jewel Of The Nile* and *Three Kings* in an "Arab Images" event definitely fall within that parameter. And that is true for most all recent titles that TCM presents.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

 

Edited by: hlywdkjk on Jul 28, 2011 2:23 PM

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