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The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

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On 8/15/2011 at 12:44 AM, Guest said:

I think I figured the real story out. First, Ranse never took advantage of Tom killing Valance but rather Tom pushed him into doing so. At the convention Tom was very blunt with Ranse. After Tom gives him the straight dope Ranse asks "But why, Tom?" most earnestly and Tom replies very bitterly "I wish I hadn't!" That could mean that even after killing Valance Tom might still have expected to hold on to Hallie although his surly behavior after the shooting suggests that he knew that by saving Ranse's life he was going to lose Hallie. At the convention Tom pushes Ranse into going with the lie with *"You taught her how da read, pilgrim, now give her something to read about!"* What I think is this. Tom must have known after revealing the truth to Ranse at the convention, honest man that he is, Tom knew he would relay the true story back to Hallie. This was Tom's way of salvaging his pride. It was his way of saying to Hallie *"Well, I saved your boyfriend for ya...now get outta here!"* Tom Doniphan was a very prideful man. It was his way of saying to her that although her betrayal had broken his heart, she would never break him. *Attaboy, Duke!*

:) !

Image result for john wayne vera miles

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Tom Doniphon is a murderer by the way he shot Valance from the shadows, no matter what his motive may have been to save Lance's life.

And being a back (or, in this case, perhaps) side shooter like that created a self loathing in Doniphon, aside from his losing his girl, ironically, to the man he saved. When Doniphon gunned down Valance in that manner it was at the price of killing a part of his own soul in the process.

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36 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Tom Dunston is a murderer by the way he shot Valance from the shadows, no matter what his motive may have been to save Lance's life.

And being a back (or, in this case, perhaps) side shooter like that created a self loathing in Dunston, aside from his losing his girl, ironically, to the man he saved. When Dunston gunned down Valance in that manner it was at the price of killing a part of his own soul in the process.

Good point, Tom.

And, in regard to some of the earlier thoughts expressed by others within this old thread in regard to Ranse's true motives for never telling the true story of Valance's death until he spills the beans to the reporters when he was an old man, this very thing, the idea that Tom COULD have been considered a murderer, WAS most likely the very reason he never told the true story to anyone previously.

(...and thus was paying Tom back in a way by protecting his reputation and possibly even from prosecution all those years)

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25 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Good point, Tom.

And, in regard to some of the earlier thoughts expressed by others within this old thread in regard to Ranse's true motives for never telling the true story of Valance's death until he spills the beans to the reporters when he was an old man, this very thing, the idea that Tom COULD have been considered a murderer, WAS most likely the very reason he never told the true story to anyone previously.

(...and thus was paying Tom back in a way by protecting his reputation and possibly even from prosecution all those years)

Ranse and Doniphon are both men of integrity looking out for one another in their own way. But Ranse prospers because of the Valance killing while Doniphon turns to the bottle (well, John Wayne probably enjoyed that part of it).

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So who is the man who shot Liberty Valance?

Is it Doniphon, the man who actually shot him but doesn't want anyone to know because of the manner in which he did it, or it is Lanse, the mythical killer by celebrated legend who "killed" him in an honourable manner?

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57 minutes ago, TomJH said:

So who is the man who shot Liberty Valance?

Is it Doniphon, the man who actually shot him but doesn't want anyone to know because of the manner in which he did it, or it is Ranse, the mythical killer by celebrated legend who "killed" him in an honourable manner?

Well, according to the guy standin' on the left here Tom, the answer to this will always be the latter one...

the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance.jpg?res

...and as long as he has anything to say about it.

But then again of course, you know how those "enemies of the people" with all their "fake news" are, doncha?! ;)

(...just ask Nip, Jake or MM, they'll tell ya!)  LOL

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6 minutes ago, Allhallowsday said:

Print the legend!  Now that's REAL news! 

Yeah, but, IF you print the actual facts later on, you're THEN accused of being a "revisionist", aren't ya??? ;)

YOU know, like how some people will resent having their cherished little myths seen for what they really are?!

(...and especially by the more, ahem, "conservative minded" among us)

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42 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Well, according to the guy standin' on the left here Tom, the answer to this will always be the latter one...

the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance.jpg?res

...and as long as he has anything to say about it.

But then again of course, you know how those "enemies of the people" with all their "fake news" are, doncha?! ;)

(...just ask Nip, Jake or MM, they'll tell ya!)  LOL

These guys want people to live in a fantasy world in which truth means nothing. No wonder Nip loves this film.

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5 minutes ago, TomJH said:

These guys want people to live in a fantasy world in which truth means nothing. No wonder Nip loves this film.

True, but then again, perhaps the very reason this film is often considered Ford's last great film is because it contains something for everyone?

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I can say three things about this movie:

1) Please get Jimmy Stewart a decent toupee.

2) Vera Miles is too young for Jimmy Stewart-- It's just a few years after "The FBI Story" but he has aged.

3) And where the heck is that fine Burt Bacharach Hal David song sung by Gene Pitney? 

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Just now, Dargo said:

True, but then again, perhaps the very reason this film is often considered Ford's last great film is because it contains something for everyone?

My parents took me to see The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance at the show when it came out. I was very excited to see both Stewart and Wayne in a western together and enjoyed it very much. But Lee Marvin is great in the film, too, of course, and one of my favourite moments in the film is when the Duke boots sycophantic Strother Martin in the jaw.

man-who-shot-liberty-valance-1962-paramo

"I'll get it, Liberty . . . OOPH!"

He got it alright.

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11 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

I can say three things about this movie:

1) Please get Jimmy Stewart a decent toupee.

2) Vera Miles is too young for Jimmy Stewart-- It's just a few years after "The FBI Story" but he has aged.

3) And where the heck is that fine Burt Bacharach Hal David song sung by Gene Pitney? 

As to:

1) Yep, I agree.

2) Naaah, because you have to remember that back in the 19th Century, it wasn't uncommon for a man to marry a woman many years his junior, although primarily for financial reasons.

3) Because according to the following excerpt from the song's Wiki page, it was recorded after the movie had already been released:

Although the song never appeared in the film, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, there is disagreement about whether the song had been intended to appear in it.[4] Nevertheless, Pitney has stated that the song's recording session was paid for by Paramount, and that it was midway through the song's recording session that he found out that the song was not going to be included in the film, when one of the orchestra members told him that the film had been released.

(...btw, I too always miss hearing Pitney's song during the films opening and closing sequences, and also think it would've added a nice touch to the film)

 

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1 minute ago, Dargo said:

As to:

1) Yep, I agree.

2) Naaah, because you have to remember that back in the 19th Century, it wasn't uncommon for a man to marry a woman many years his junior, although primarily for financial reasons.

3) Because according to the following excerpt from the song's Wiki page, it was recorded after the movie had already been released:

Although the song never appeared in the film, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, there is disagreement about whether the song had been intended to appear in it.[4] Nevertheless, Pitney has stated that the song's recording session was paid for by Paramount, and that it was midway through the song's recording session that he found out that the song was not going to be included in the film, when one of the orchestra members told him that the film had been released. Session drummer Gary Chester plays on the recording.[

 

Yeah course I know all that now--

But I actually watched that whole movie just waiting for that song.

The sacrifices I've made in my life for Burt Bacharach. LOL

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6 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

Yeah course I know all that now--

But I actually watched that whole movie just waiting for that song.

The sacrifices I've made in my life for Burt Bacharach. LOL

Yep, the first time I watched it years and years ago, I did too.

(...and I'll bet almost everyone old enough to remember Pitney's hit song playing on some old AM radio station at the time and who then watched the movie, probably also did)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Yep, the first time I watched it years and years ago, I did too.

(...and I'll bet almost everyone old enough to remember Pitney's hit song playing on some old AM radio station at the time and who then watched the movie, probably also did)

Speaking of that song and old AM radio stations, the summer the movie came out I was working in a pea cannery in eastern Oregon (Athena I think). About the only radio station accessible was one of those old AM stations that recycled about 9 songs between commercials. This was one of those songs. I heard it enough to last a lifetime. As tiresome as the song became, it was nothing compared to "Johnny get angry, Johnny get mad" (actual title forgotten). It had an interlude that sounded like someone blowing on a comb covered with tissue paper. One of the worst songs ever.

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32 minutes ago, Thenryb said:

Speaking of that song and old AM radio stations, the summer the movie came out I was working in a pea cannery in eastern Oregon (Athena I think). About the only radio station accessible was one of those old AM stations that recycled about 9 songs between commercials. This was one of those songs. I heard it enough to last a lifetime. As tiresome as the song became, it was nothing compared to "Johnny get angry, Johnny get mad" (actual title forgotten). It had an interlude that sounded like someone blowing on a comb covered with tissue paper. One of the worst songs ever.

I was a totally awesome teenybopper when those two  songs came out--

" Johnny Get Angry" by Joanie Sommers and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" by Gene Pitney.

I had a lot of Records, 45's, but I wore those 2 out until they were warped.

I guess you had to be a kid to really dig that kind of music. LOL

But believe it or not, Joanie was quite a good singer and the flipside was a nice rendition of "The Theme of A Summer Place."

 

 

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On 2/13/2020 at 12:58 PM, TomJH said:

So who is the man who shot Liberty Valance?

Is it Doniphon, the man who actually shot him but doesn't want anyone to know because of the manner in which he did it, or it is Lanse, the mythical killer by celebrated legend who "killed" him in an honourable manner?

to me that has never been a consideration with the film. I doan think Tom could care less if anyone knows how he takes out valance. I always felt his silence was his way of laughing at Hallie for not wanting him. maybe that's why he kept her charred room standing...so she could someday stare at it and remember the man who's heart she broke.

:)

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20 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

to me that has never been a consideration with the film. I doan think Tom could care less if anyone knows how he takes out valance. I always felt his silence was his way of laughing at Hallie for not wanting him. maybe that's why he kept her charred room standing...so she could someday stare at it and remember the man who's heart she broke.

:)

Doniphon would be charged with murder if the manner of his killing of Valance was revealed.

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29 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

to me that has never been a consideration with the film. I doan think Tom could care less if anyone knows how he takes out valance. I always felt his silence was his way of laughing at Hallie for not wanting him. maybe that's why he kept her charred room standing...so she could someday stare at it and remember the man who's heart she broke.

I don't read the story that way.  I think Doniphon is disgusted with himself and his act.  I also think Doniphon did it because his love for Hallie was so deep that he would sacrifice his own integrity to protect her happiness, no matter how unhappy it made him. 

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38 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Doniphon would be charged with murder if the manner of his killing of Valance was revealed.

maybe the judge woulda suspended his sentence for taking out a lowlife.

:)

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at least we can be comforted by the thought that Rance Stoddard was honest enough to tell Hallie what really occurred. I bet that took the smirk off her face.

she probably thought Tom was too conceited to do such a thing and loose her she thinks she was such an indispensable cactus rose to um.

she probably didn't think he had that kinda indomitable integrity.

he showed her!

:)

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Anyone with any speculation on what happened to Strother Martin's character after Valance is killed?

My guess is he either went into politics or got a job cleaning out spittoons.

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"Friends, vote for me and I promise not to steal as much money from you as the other guy will."

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