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God forgive me, but I just can't stay out of this. Look, you're probably harmless enough as curmudgeons go, but we kind of hoped this thread could be a respite from straight guys pontificating on our acceptability or unacceptability. I believe you when you say you were surprised about George Maharis, which only underscores that you don't really know what you're talking about in this case. Things haven't changed that much for gay celebrities to this day. Living in the public eye kind of keeps you behind the curve. The jokes and ridicule that you seem to enjoy perpetuating can be a heavy price to pay, so I'm sure many still go the anonymous sex route. And, yes, oral sex jokes can go "either way". They can be offensive to gays or to women. As far as you welcoming me to the world of equality, how about if I let you know when we get there? Yes, topics tend to wander, if you have so many willful people trying to take it where it wasn't intended to go. If you feel all that strongly about any of this, start your own thread and I promise I'll come over and state my views respectfully, if that's what you want. If not, I'd be happy to stay away and let you do your thing. In this case, what we want is to talk about is...Robert Fuller, I believe it was. So, I remember hearing that he and James Drury were (are?) friends for a lot of years. My mind went right there too, but it doesn't seem like it was like that. I checked Wikipedia and it says he took an acting class from Richard Boone in his early days, which is interesting. It seems like those older western stars still get together for conventions, fan expos, etc, so maybe you could actually meet him, willbefree. Ready to book a flight? ennis, you mentioned mostly older stars. My first exposure to Tyrone Power in a movie theater was "Witness For The Prosecution", sort of at the end of his career, but local TV back then ran so many old movies that it didn't take me long to catch up. "Son of Fury"? Need I say more? Half the movie in that mini-sarong. He was cerebral and an action kind of guy, which is always the best combination, I think. Did you ever see his father? He was in "The Big Trail" with John Wayne and he and his son couldn't have been more different in their acting styles, mostly because the father was from the stage, which still encouraged all those exaggerated mannerisms. Didn't look like Ty Jr. got his looks from his father either, but maybe the father was just made up to look that way. What's your favorite Ty Power movie?

 

P.S. Oh, and the Seinfeld thing? I wish you could be gay for a day and hear how many times "Not that there's anything wrong with that" gets used as an excuse for a slur.

 

Edited by: DougieB on Nov 25, 2011 9:54 AM

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Robert FULLER?!

 

Dude, while I'm not gay either, I always thought the guy he replaced in the TV series "Wagon Train" and who it's been said got the part because of his resemblance to Robert HORTON, was a whole lot hotter!!!

 

(...not that there's anything wrong with your pick here, mind you) ;)

 

:^0

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{font:Times New Roman}As a child growing up in the 50’s & 60’s or course I had heroes in film. I idolized Clark Gable, Burt Lancaster, Tyrone Power and Kirk Douglas and many others, with or without their shirts on, even to the point of mimicking them while playing or trying to reenact a movie with my friends that I watched on TV or the movies. Gay DID change it’s meaning in the last decade. Plenty of actors acted gay but it was never pointed out or it was left to the viewers’ imagination. I just now realize some gay slurs in films, Caged, Johnny Guitar, and Convicts 4 that went over my head as a kid. I’m straight and I can’t say oh he’s good looking. Because of today’s society, if I state that I would be called gay or frowned upon. I still idolize certain (good looking) actors and actresses because of their ability to act, not because of their preference in bed. Even the Flintstones had a gay ole time. ;){font}

 

 

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About the list of films with the word gay, the time period between 1890-1899 was known as the "Gay '90's".

 

I need to better explain myself about my past post, it looks like they were taken a bit out of context. A poster asked, how would a straight person like it if it was illegal for them and my reply was toward them about sexual irresponsibility NOT toward gays. The person I also referred to crossed all the society taboo boundries and is sort of a maverick. That one really threw me a curve ball.

 

I apologise if any gays took offense, my remarks were not directed at them. Hope this also clarifies it with the TCM Web Administrator, I mean *cold heart*, where did that come from??

 

I knew this subject was very sensistive and its awkward that posters has to walk on pins and needles to be politically correct. The very big reason many posters stay clear of this thread. In this over-sensistive politically correct society someone will always offend someone. I guess I offend Christians for apologising - I can never win. :|

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DougieB, given the predilection for flame throwing in even the most innocuous of threads, I would hope the OP knew some posts here would turn ugly. The topic is an interesting one, and I'm glad he started it.

 

I didn't know about the Fuller and Drury friendship. I knew about Cary Grant and Randolph Scott, but not Fuller and Drury. No matter what went on, and it was their business, I think Grant was beautiful in his day and Fuller in his.

 

On the inequality of personal freedoms, I still cringe at having found out Raymond Burr invented a dead wife and child to prosper in his career.

 

 

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I know you think your remarks weren't directed at gays, and your last post had been deleted by the time I got to it, but my personal objection to your posts is your assumption that you speak for all of our society in referencing what your consider to be "all the society taboo boundaries". You don't. Personally, I'm happy George Maharis got some. He could have had some of mine. There, now I've probably offended you. There's just no winning for either of us in this conversation, obviously. But, remember, you came here. No matter what we try to do to keep this thread on track, it keeps turning into the Big Gay House Party, with all the straight guys dropping in. Believe me, I can handle it. I've got great straight male friends and I don't have to censor myself with them (or they wouldn't be my friends, obviously). I've been really lucky that way most of my adult life. I'm by no means a gay seperatist, which may be what's coming across in my posts. I'd just like a quiet little nook on this vast board to talk about our favorite male movie stars, and not necessarily about the ones who've been compromised in the media. If you straight boys can't allow that to happen, then help yourself to the fridge and try to keep it down to a dull roar. This lovely host is going to lie down in my room for a while, because you're giving me a headache, guys.

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> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:}{quote}Hmmm, I thought Fuller replaced Horton? No?

Yep, willbe. That's what I meant, though maybe I wasn't clear about it. Fuller did replace Horton as the scout on "Wagon Train".

 

I also remember Horton starring in a number of the old half hour "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episodes, also. One of 'em I recall and which I always thought was a memorable turn for him was about a compulsive gambler who gets caught way over his head in a high stakes poker game.

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I never said, nor do I think I speak for society. Someone asked a simple question, I gave a simple answer which was only my personal opinion. I do not have a problem with the original concept of this thread and the OP has every right to start it. You simply take stuff said more seriously than it needs to be.

 

If you don't want any posts from straights, then I and many others got the message. Looks like my apology fell on deaf ears. :(

 

This is my LAST reply to this thread.

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Is "not that there's anyway wrong with it" really offensive to gays?

 

It originates in a very funny Seinfeld episode in which Jerry and George were mistakenly thought to be gay lovers, and they kept denying it, as in

"But I'm not gay ! ..Not that there's anything wrong with that."

The show is making fun of both the characters' discomfort with being considered gay, and also with the desire to be politically correct. The two men are torn between their insistance on confirming their heterosexuality, and their need to ensure that no one thinks they're homophobic. I cannot imagaine anyone, straight, gay, bi, trans, whatever, being offended by it.

 

I do recognize that even to add "Not that there's anything wrong with it" could be construed as implying that maybe there is something wrong with it, in some people's view. I mean, you wouldn't say - "But I'm not American - not that there's anything wrong with that" because, well, to add the second part of the above sentence suggests an unnecessary defensiveness as to whether a person is American or not.

But I'm being too literal about this - The point is, the gay people I know ( and their numbers are legion) do not consider that phrase from Seinfeld a "slur" in any way.

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I think one thing all can agree on is that George Maharis was never a

movie star of the top rank, so his private life was not as well known as

that of a big star. Plus, these are things that happened around forty years

ago, so I'm not too surprised I've never heard of them before. I have heard

the Cary Grant/Randolph Scott rumors and I believe no one is quite sure what

their relationship was. I've read that James Dean was called "the human

ashtray." Who knows? It's really just more Hollywood tittle tattle.

 

Folks chime in on threads for any number of reasons, serious or not. If the

OP had not used the word cream, I might not even have replied to the post,

so it was hardly willful, but rather random. You can't expect to start a thread

and think it will run smooth without any zig-zags. That's just the way things

work. Somebody will always be offended by something, but that won't stop

people from making remarks that others don't like. Twas ever thus. This could

be my penutimate post, but then again.

 

 

 

Well the Seinfeld writers are pros, we're mere amateurs.

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I saw the Seinfeld episode in its original broadcast and laughed along with everyone else. The point I hoped to make was that it's been appropriated by a lot of people for a lot of purposes and can and has been used to cover a multitude of sins. I've heard some really atrocious things followed by that coda, which I guess is supposed to make it all right. I'm not a PC kind of guy, though I suppose you'd have no way of knowing that the way I've been ranting. And I love living in mixed society. I've been lucky enough to have been living for many years in a place where straight and gay people just get it and are able to coexist really well. But I'm aware of the great world beyond, particularly the isolated gay kids trying to navigate some very harsh environments. A lot of the gay teen suicides are because of jokes, made too relentlessly and without thinking. I understand that some of the stuff I've put out has been of a blanket nature, so I want you to know that I've been visiting these boards for a while now and I know what an exemplary group this is overall. And I'm sorry, hamradio, but I just can't be the kind of gay man you'd like to see and I'm not even going to try. If this is what the thread is going to be, this kind of dialogue, then stick around and maybe we can at least accept our differences. It was never my intention to evict straight men or women from this thread. It just didn't seem that much was being done in a spirit of cooperation. Now I'm sensing the spirit a little. And looking back, I can see that the OP was maybe a little lascivious (Not that there's anything wrong with that.), so that may have led things in a certain direction. I've been out for over 40 years now and I've seen a lot of instances of gay men not even being allowed to pause and catch their breath. That's all I was hoping for from this thread. If it's not going to be that, so be it.

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I actually think the phrase "not that there's anything wrong with that" precedes it's use on Seinfeld. It seems to have come into usage as a replacement for "some of my best friends are..." On the one hand, it can be kind of offensive; on the other hand, it's sometimes used (innocently) by the speaker to underscore how enlightened they think they are being. As a queer man (yes I prefer that term so long as I'm the one using it), I try to be charitable toward people of good will whose life experience may not have exposed them to the variety and diversity that is the human family. But I draw the line when I think people are consciously being offensive. I think we've seen all kinds in these postings.

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I actually feel the worst about hamradio, the guy who's furthest away from me in almost all respects that we've touched on here. Those boo-hoo icons get me every time. So, if you're still checking in, hamradio, I accept your apology and I thank you for it. And here's mine: I apologize for being ungracious enough, even at this stage of my life, not to have been looking for common ground from the beginning. Common ground is the only ground any of us are ever going to be able to stand on in the long run, right?

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Well that saying does imply there might be something wrong with being gay but to me the reason is because to a many people (sadly about 50%), there is something wrong with being gay. Sadly too many people just don't have a mature understanding of human sexuality. I'm in a very liberal state CA and my wife and I worked hard to try to defeat Prop 8 but to no avail.

 

But I can see why some in the gay community could find the saying offensive since of course there isn't anything wrong with being who one is.

 

 

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Don't do that. You have your rights, stay here and insist on them.

 

In the meantime, let me suggest a site where you'll not be hassled. You'll find the board to be gay-centric although they even allow a straight such as I to converse.

 

It's the home of SCARLET STREET magazine and you can find it here. They do require a membership approval, but that takes only a day at the most.

 

http://scarletstreet.yuku.com/directory#.Ts-vlvKwBkz

 

But don't let my recommendation have you thinking that for one minute that I'm thinking "don't go away mad, just go away."

 

 

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I don't think an apology is necessary, ennisdelmar2, and I hope you stay on the boards. I am a straight guy but it is not in my place or anyone elses to judge you. Several of my favorite actors , like Charles Laughton, are well known to have been gay but that doesn't diminish my opinion of them. I might also say quite a few of my favorite actors/actresses are well known to have been bi, again that is/was their personal business and I don't judge them on that either. So stay on and post what you like (a little good taste and civility is all that one can ask). If someone doesn't like the topic, they can just avoid that thread, there's enough room for everybody here. :)

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Ennis, I've been posting for quite some time that I wish TCM would screen Stuart Walker's 1935 film *The Mystery of Edwin Drood.* It will be shown on Monday, December 5 at 8pm. I think Douglass Montgomery is mighty handsome as Neville Landless in that film. Perhaps I find him attractive, not just physically, but because he plays a kind of outsider. Check it out, and thanks for starting this thread!

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