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I know this is way off topic, but here goes..

 

 

I've adopted my Mother's view on animals that she also extended to people. She grew up on a farm. Now, many would believe that in having done so, she would have an inherent love of ALL animals. Not so. In fact, there were several animals she felt were useless and unlovable. But she had a somewhat dissmissive attitude about them. If you don't like a certain animal, then avoid it. She felt that her not liking it was no exuse for heaping abuse on it. Just leave them be. Only if said animal was trying to do her harm would she then wish to return the favor. Same with people. She never could understand the racial and ethnic prejudices some people held against others. Especially those who simply went about their business. Surely, she felt, people must have had better things to do with their time.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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Oh yes, and vice versa. Or, as darkblue put it, approximately:

 

I will decide what I want and what I like and watch what I want and not listen to anyone's opinion since they probably won't like what I like anyway, so there.

 

Or words to that effect.

 

Which negates the purpose of reading message boards, which after all is just an anonymous forum for offering up opinions with no facts in the hopes that someone out there will watch a show or movie and agree with us and if they don't, well, it all comes down to ............ opinions anyway.

 

I always laugh at those who think they are experts on any one matter, especially something as subjective as art, and tell others to 'shut up' if they don't agree with them.

 

Hilarious.

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I like that, Sepiatone. I didn't think you would say she would love all animals at all. I thought you were going to say that she had no problem with personally killing animals since they were there for man's use, since he was the ruler of the universe. I have so many abusers of animals think they were put here to use up animals at their discretion since they are the ones (not) with the bigger brain. What's one more extinct animal or abused or suffering animal.

 

Leave them be. I like that a lot.

 

Same with people. I like that even more.

 

Smart woman, your mother.

 

Do unto others, right?

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I used to get upset about animal cruelty in older films (especially that disturbing scene in RULES OF THE GAME, and most American westerns with all the tripped horses). Just saw THE MACOMBER AFFAIR this past weekend and numerous animals were killed and shown in the throws of painful death, all for "big game hunting" sequences.

 

But...I realized there isnt much I can do about the needless/real animal killing in something 70 years old....its like getting upset about a vintage fur coat from the 40s, or a stuffed lion head from the 19th century, or a piece of antique ivory.

 

Best to focus your energy on contemporary animal cruelty...which you can actually do something about.

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About the tripping horses, I'm not sure but if they weren't trained to do that. It seems to me horses weren't cheap investments and the studios (or the wranglers they contracted with) would not blithely throw away expensive merchandise. No doubt, accidents happened and horses, as well as riders got injured. The difference, of course, being the riders were humans and presumably could know better, while the horses were dumb animals and didn't have a choice.

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> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:}{quote}But the people weren't really killed, the animals were and still might be.

>

> Big difference.

>

> I don't appreciate gratuitous violence in movies, even with humans.

 

There is NO "gratuitous" violence in *Forbidden Games*.

 

>2: not called for by the circumstances : unwarranted

 

 

 

It is a film about children trying to cope with the horrors of war. Showing that horror was absolutely necessary. If the parents, and/or the dog had been blown to bits, and we saw the bloody lumps of flesh, even that might be justified, given the reality of that war.

 

The way the dog is treated, in the context of the film, is much as one would expect under the circumstances. But, how was the dog treated, in reality, while making the film? That question concerns me too. I did some poking around on line, but couldn't find a definitive answer, only speculation. Certainly, I hope that the dog wasn't hurt, but I can't be sure that it wasn't.

 

In our times, TV and the movie theaters are filled with mindless, gratuitous violence. So, I had to respond when you said that a powerful, beautiful, humane film like *Forbidden Games* had "gratuitous violence." It doesn't. Of course, if you don't want to ever watch a film that includes violence, that is your prerogative. But, that doesn't leave you much to watch, not even *Bambi*.

 

I have NO idea why this came out all underlined, and tinted. I had no such intention. Sorry.

 

Edited by: ValentineXavier on Apr 17, 2012 9:20 PM

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You may have inadvertently clicked on the underline feature.

 

Thank you, also, for your comments about the movie. Even though this thread was intended to focus on the treatment of the dog, we must remember that the film is about the children, and the devastating effects the violence of the war had on them, and how they coped, or tried to cope with it.

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slaytonf, you cannot train a horse to fall forward. Anytime you see a horse fall forward you know it fell using a trip wire or a running "W". The trip wire is just that, a wire stretched across an area and the horse running trips and falls forward. The running "W" consisted of wire and cuffs. The wire and cuff were attached to the horses front legs and the other end was run through slip rings under the saddle cinch and anchored into the ground. As the horse galloped the wire became taught and yanked the front legs up and under the horses belly and it fell forward. That is outlawed today, but many horses were killed using this method.

You can train a horse to fall on its side . Watch the rider and he'll yank the reins to the side and the will fall as its trained to do. But films like Errol Flynns "Charge of the Light Brigade" so many were killed during this film and others like it. C.B. DeMille was another who put horse and riders in harms way many time. There is a well written book called "The Hollywood Posse" by Diana Serra Cary whose father was a stunt man from the 1920's into TV. It tells of a plot some stuntmen hatched to kill DeMille during one of his films and make it look like an accident.

So if you see the horse fall foward, it a trip wire or "W". On its side trained to take the fall into soft dirt....

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Thanks, CG, another movie I must miss.

 

True on getting upset about current animal cruelty, but then how about all the posts on insulting and degrading behavior towards blacks in old movies? Are those posters to be told to get over it?

 

Same thing, only at least they weren't slaughtered needlessly.

 

Oh, and *doing* something about animal cruelty outside of the U.S.? Impossible.

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Willbefree25,

 

if I was to apply that reasoning to a black viewer** who was offended by racist attitudes in old films, no...I probably wouldn't talk like a sorrority girl and say something like "get over it." But I would say "you are approaching art in the wrong way, and are just cheating yourself if you avoid any art that offends you."

 

You might as well avoid SWING TIME, too. That fox-studded wedding dress Ginger Rogers wears? I assure you those foxes nearly gnawed their own arms off trying to get free from the fur traps. You can ride this slippery slope for a long time...heck, they are eating veal in the GODFATHER.

 

**(and as a footnote, I've never met a single one of these now-legendary black viewers who love classic films but are just outraged at the racial stereotypes and want it all banned. Do they actually exist? Anyone boycott TCM for showing "Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs" at the film festival 2 years ago? Or Warner Archive for releasing all the Al Jolson films on DVD. Heard even a peep of controversy? No...I think most people are sophisticated enough to not get all in a dither in 2012 because Stepin Fetchin shuffled across a movie set 75 years ago...not much can be done about it at this point).

 

 

 

 

 

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**(and as a footnote, I've never met a single one of these now-legendary black viewers who love classic films but are just outraged at the racial stereotypes and want it all banned. Do they actually exist? Anyone boycott TCM for showing "Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs" at the film festival 2 years ago? Or Warner Archive for releasing all the Al Jolson films on DVD. Heard even a peep of controversy? No...I think most people are sophisticated enough to not get all in a dither in 2012 because Stepin Fetchin shuffled across a movie set 75 years ago...not much can be done about it at this point).

 

Back in the early and mid-70's my old GF and I toured dozens of college campuses from New England to Berkeley and all points in between, showing a series of bootleg 16mm TV shows from the 50's that we packaged together as "An Evening of Nostalgia". They were extremely popular, and one thing we noticed was that our percentage of black customers increased quite markedly whenever we put Amos 'n' Andy on the bill. This TV version of the old Gosden and Correll radio show had been taken out of syndication when these students had been in elementary school, and they were absolutely blown away by them.

 

Of course there's a world of difference between the polished comic skills of Tim Moore, Spencer Williams and Ernestine Wade, and the sort of pathetic caricatures portrayed by Willie Best and Al Jolson, but for better or worse they're all part of our cultural heritage just as much as Sidney Poitier or Denzel Washington, and we can't run away from it even if sometimes we'd like to.

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Well there ARE people who get offended. I remember several years back when AMC was still a movie channel they were going to show a Charlie Chan festival, the uproar from Chinese Americans got the festival cancelled. I was royally ticked too as I was looking forward to watching them.........

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Hibi...the uproar you speak of was one Asian-American organization, and I seriously doubt it was anything more than one or two activists in a home office, claiming to speak for half the world.

 

I'll let you in a little secret about activism, which i learned in my years in the book publishing industry...all it takes is one person and a fax machine to get something banned. If you claim to speak for millions and write to the right executive, you can get things banned or changed. I saw book covers changed because of ONE complaint letter.

 

Still happens today. Things get cancelled because of nervous executives who are terrified of "uproars" that never actually will happen. Think Disney with SONG OF THE SOUTH. You'll have a tough time ever convincing me that there are more than a handful of people who give a crap about offensive material in old B&W movies on some cable channel.

 

Sorry to steer us so far off topic. Just trying to make the point that it is pretty useless to get worked up about offensive material in old films...NO ONE who buys or watches them wants them censored or banned...and the original filmmakers are likely long dead. So what is the point? It is a tempest about nothing.

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That makes me even more mad to hear that. I dont get what is so offensive about Charlie Chan. I know he is sterotyped and he's played by a non-Asian, but he IS smart and solves crimes........It's not like he's a servant or something.............

 

Sorry to get off topic..........but I hate viewing old films with a politically correct filter. It was a different era and it's part of history wether we like it or not........

 

Edited by: Hibi on Apr 18, 2012 2:53 PM

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