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infinite1

THE CYCLOPS

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Once again TCM has opted to show the cut version of THE CYCLOPS. So much for "complete and uncut". I've come to the conclusion that TCM just dosen't give a damn about their mission statement any more and will show whatever copy OF whatever film is available. Maybe they should change their promos to the phony sounding "story matters here" or "the channel for people who love movies". Yes, I know those are amc's promos, but TCM is looking more and more like amc every time they pull a boneheaded stunt like this. I am sick and tired of watching all the ROBERT OSBORNE promos that hype TCM's love for movies. Actions speak louder then words and TCM's actions speak volumes to their so called "love" for movies. At TCM hype matters only when they want to sell tickets to a FILM FESTIVAL or CRUISE, but when it comes to the films they show it's PENN AND TELLER B.S. time. A sad commentary on a once great channel.

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I've never thought about it before Infinite1, but I guess even TCM is not immune to entropy...the kind so common in our TV and film world. A sad day you've made it for me. Reality, but sad. I adore all that TCM brought for me....but, sad to say the programming may be slipping.

 

I just checked the 2012 Memorial Day schedule....and I'm a bit underwhelmed. Oh...I'll watch all weekend, I'm sure....but with so many great wartime films, this is what the put on the buffet table for me?

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They should check the Warner Archive. They put the film out on DVD to complaints of it being cut. To their credit, the Archive people restored the missing footage and even offered free replacements to those who had purchased the edited edition.

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>Doesn' it just make you long for George Clooney and the happy, happy days of AMC?

 

You may, indeed, long for George Clooney, but you mean Nick Clooney -- George's dad.

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Now there's a thought! I would tune in to AMC now if George Clooney was hosting............

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You COULD pay through the nose and get HBO, Showtime or TMC and watch the same movies 20 times a week. Besides, *Cyclops* isn't like a long beloved classic. Who would care or notice if it was chopped up?

 

 

Oh, right. YOU would. Sorry...

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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> {quote:title=Sepiatone wrote:}{quote}

> You COULD pay through the nose and get HBO, Showtime or TMC and watch the same movies 20 times a week. Besides, *Cyclops* isn't like a long beloved classic. Who would care or notice if it was chopped up?

>

> Oh, right. YOU would. Sorry...

>

>

> Sepiatone

>

But, that's the point isn't it? TCM makes a point about showing films "uncut and complete". So, unless someone is familiar with a particular film they are going to naturally assume that TCM is adhering to that pledge. That is misrepresentation on the part of the channel and sloppiness that should not be tolerated by any fan of film. If we wanted to view cut films we would be watching amc, but we are watching TCM and they are held up to higher standards.

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>But, that's the point isn't it? TCM makes a point about showing films "uncut and complete".

 

I explained this a couple of years ago. The "we don't cut" promos were done as a means of saying that TCM does not cut anything out of a movie, such as cursing, violence, or vulgarity. It only means that TCM doesn't make any edits or cuts.

 

What they get from distributors is a different matter. There are some films that are being distributed that were already cut a long time ago, for airing on TV in the old days, back when profanity wasn't allowed on TV. TCM can not "add back" any scenes it does not have, and most distributors probably hire a lot of young employees who don't know if a film is already cut or not.

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*"It only means that TCM doesn't make any edits or cuts.'* - FCD

 

Yep. You're right, Fred. It isn't a difficult idea to get one's mind around - unless someone wants to be difficult.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> > But, that's the point isn't it? TCM makes a point about showing films "uncut and complete".

> I explained this a couple of years ago. The "we don't cut" promos were done as a means of saying that TCM does not cut anything out of a movie, such as cursing, violence, or vulgarity. It only means that TCM doesn't make any edits or cuts.

>

> What they get from distributors is a different matter. There are some films that are being distributed that were already cut a long time ago, for airing on TV in the old days, back when profanity wasn't allowed on TV. TCM can not "add back" any scenes it does not have, and most distributors probably hire a lot of young employees who don't know if a film is already cut or not.

The promos I am referring to clearly state that TCM "shows" films that are only complete and uncut. The implication being that they do not show films that are incomplete or cut for any reason. Whatever "we don't cut" promos you are referring to are either part of the same promos I have seen or different promos. If TCM does not know whether or not a film is complete, they should indicate it before the film starts running.

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> {quote:title=hlywdkjk wrote:}{quote}*"It only means that TCM doesn't make any edits or cuts.'* - FCD

>

> Yep. You're right, Fred. It isn't a difficult idea to get one's mind around - unless someone wants to be difficult.

>

>

> Kyle In Hollywood

>

Well Kyle I guess there are alot of us troublemakers running around because obviously I am not the only one bothered by cut films appearing on TCM. But TCM has no one to blame but themselves because that's the very idea they wish to perpetuate, that they care so much about our movie heritage that they would never stoop so low as to show a film that is incomplete, cut, or edited. Sounds an awful lot like another channel that used to hold themselves up as the saviors of our classic film heritage, AMC, dosen't it? So, according to you and Fred, TCM cannot logically vouch for the condition of any film they are airing. Well, I'll accept that, but if there is confusion regarding this and believe me there is, the logical thing, the honest thing to do would be for TCM to acknowledge that fact in promos and not give the misleading hype that they show films that are "complete and uncut". Don't forget, not every TCM fan, web site, newspaper or magazine reporting about TCM, is as savy as you or Fred. I already know I'm not.

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It reminds me of something I say about statements made by politicians.

 

"Just because that's what they imply, you don't necessarily have to infer it that way."

 

I do agree with you, maybe what they should do is put some disclaimer on the bottom of the screen noting that they take no responsibility for cuts made by the distributors. This way, if they get one of those old 8mm Castle Films "complete edition" reels that run about 15 minutes, they're covered.

 

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuNJO3yN_9VC-Jp7vp_uo

 

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Maybe this post might make up for the edited movie. I think the Cyclops myth could be based on a bit of historic reality, in that real cyclops in both human and animals have been born, in anceint and modern times.

 

Fortunately these poor things don't live past 24 hours. Just last year May 2011 a cyclops boy was born in India and recently a kitten, both only lived one day.

 

Anyone (with guts) have to research it yourself, I will not post a direct link. Be WARNED, the photos are *horrific!*

 

I can already hear the Lenscrafters "made in half an hour" jokes.

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> {quote:title=hamradio wrote:}{quote}

> I can already hear the Lenscrafters "made in half an hour" jokes.

I'll keep an eye out for them. ;)

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*"So, according to you and Fred, TCM cannot logically vouch for the condition of any film they are airing."*

 

If TCM requests an uneditted (theatrical release) copy of a film, how are they supposed to know if the distributor sent an editted version of the film instead? Do you think TCM has a copy of the final script with which to compare every film that passes through the door? The distribution company/studio have to vouch for the status of their materials. TCM can't be expected to do that for them - even if it is the channel getting the blame from some viewers.

 

*"...the honest thing to do would be for TCM to acknowledge that fact in promos and not give the misleading hype that they show films that are "complete and uncut".*

 

I've never heard TCM assert that the films they show are "complete". The phrase used in promotional materials is "uncut and commercial-free". "Complete" is a different idea altogether.

 

For years TCM showed what was the only available version of *Baby Face* - which was notoriously censored after its initial release. Did TCM violate its "policy" during those years by showing the editted version? Should it not have shown the film at all because it was censored or is it acceptable if TCM presents the best copy that is available to the channel? (With that determination made by the film's distributor.) After an uncensored copy of *Baby Face* was discovered in the Library Of Congress, that version is now the only one TCM shows today. And I don't think TCM was in anyway negligent or dishonest during those ten years when it showed the other version. But I am betting you would disagree.

 

Mr. Dobbs took issue with TCM showing reconstructed films like *A Star Is Born* or *Lost Horizon* because of their hybrid status due to the use of stills to substitute lost footage. Yet most viewers understand that the "stills versions" are the closest one will get to seeing those films in their original release state. The films are still "incomplete" but they are also the "best" versions available. Do these types of films also run counter to your idea of TCM's policy of showing only "complete" films and requiring a disclaimor during when shown?

 

The question to ask is why the distributor doesn't have an uneditted digital copy of *The Cyclops* to lease to TCM - especially if it promised to deliver one. After all, it is the distributor's property and their responsiblity to maintain the quality of their film catalogue for leasing to television stations like TCM. Sadly, many distributor's aren't all that interested in devoting the time, attention and money necessary to maintaining a comprensive and high-quality film catalogue of "classic films.".

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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> {quote:title=hlywdkjk wrote:}{quote}*"So, according to you and Fred, TCM cannot logically vouch for the condition of any film they are airing."*

>

> If TCM requests an uneditted (theatrical release) copy of a film, how are they supposed to know if the distributor sent an editted version of the film instead? Do you think TCM has a copy of the final script with which to compare every film that passes through the door? The distribution company/studio have to vouch for the status of their materials. TCM can't be expected to do that for them - even if it is the channel getting the blame from some viewers.

>

> No, there is evidently no way that TCM can know with a first time showing until the complaints start coming in. But, after the first showing and the complaints that would follow, one would logically hope that TCM would keep notes regarding that film in a file of potential problem children that need special attention for repeat broadcasts. It's like the old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

>

> *"...the honest thing to do would be for TCM to acknowledge that fact in promos and not give the misleading hype that they show films that are "complete and uncut".*

>

> I've never heard TCM assert that the films they show are "complete". The phrase used in promotional materials is "uncut and commercial-free". "Complete" is a different idea altogether.

>

> Ok, I'll give you that point. There is no easy way, when it comes to film, to determine what the COMPLETE version is. However, to me "uncut and commercial-free" means that it is the MOST complete version that is available. And not the same cut up (edited) version that might be shown on a commercial channel like amc or a local commercial channel.

>

> For years TCM showed what was the only available version of *Baby Face* - which was notoriously censored after its initial release. Did TCM violate its "policy" during those years by showing the editted version? Should it not have shown the film at all because it was censored or is it acceptable if TCM presents the best copy that is available to the channel? (With that determination made by the film's distributor.) After an uncensored copy of *Baby Face* was discovered in the Library Of Congress, that version is now the only one TCM shows today. And I don't think TCM was in anyway negligent or dishonest during those ten years when it showed the other version. But I am betting you would disagree.

>

> You would lose, because I agree with you on this one.

>

> Mr. Dobbs took issue with TCM showing reconstructed films like *A Star Is Born* or *Lost Horizon* because of their hybrid status due to the use of stills to substitute lost footage. Yet most viewers understand that the "stills versions" are the closest one will get to seeing those films in their original release state. The films are still "incomplete" but they are also the "best" versions available. Do these types of films also run counter to your idea of TCM's policy of showing only "complete" films and requiring a disclaimor during when shown?

>

> I believe that LOST HORIZON does have such a disclaimor. I have never seen A STAR IS BORN so I will take your word for it. I do know for a fact that a previous reconstructed version of METROPOLIS has a disclaimor, ditto for LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT. As to your question, I have no problem with LOST HORIZON, METROPOLIS, or A STAR IS BORN because as you say "the "stills versions" are the closest one will get to seeing those films in their original release state". But that has more to do with the age of the films in question and the fact that a COMPLETE version may never be found.

>

> The question to ask is why the distributor doesn't have an uneditted digital copy of *The Cyclops* to lease to TCM - especially if it promised to deliver one. After all, it is the distributor's property and their responsiblity to maintain the quality of their film catalogue for leasing to television stations like TCM. Sadly, many distributor's aren't all that interested in devoting the time, attention and money necessary to maintaining a comprensive and high-quality film catalogue of "classic films.".

>

> You will have to excuse my ignorance with this one because I don't understand why TCM can't just simply ask WARNER ARCHIVES for the remastered version and show that one. I guess there's some legal mumbo jumbo involved, but dosen't TCM have any recourse like withholding payment due to the distributor failing to live up to their end of the contract? Look, I know it is physically impossible for TCM to swear to the condition of all the films they show, but there are repeat offenders that keep being shown in the same condition even after a number of complaints by troublemakers like me. It would be nice if TCM kept a log of those films, checked them prior to airing them, and provided a disclaimor of sorts if it tuns out to be the same problem copy. As you stated above "the question to ask is why the distributor doesn't have an uneditted digital copy of *The Cyclops* to lease to TCM - especially if it promised to deliver one." And it's up to TCM to ask the question and provide us with the answer. TCM, after all is the middle man, it's not our place to go to the distributor that's why we have TCM.

>

> Kyle In Hollywood

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*"You will have to excuse my ignorance with this one because I don't understand why TCM can't just simply ask WARNER ARCHIVES for the remastered version and show that one. I guess there's some legal mumbo jumbo involved..."*

 

And you'll be right. Here's a recent post from a TCM staffer about the channel's access to titles in the Warner Archive series.

http://forums.tcm.com/message.jspa?messageID=8614319#8614319

 

There is a one (1) year moritorium for all new Warner Archive remasters. TCM can't access the new master until one (1) full year after the new version has been available through the Warner Archive Collection. This is mandated by Warner Home Video. That is why TCM continues to run the old masters. - MGMWBRKO

 

I don't know when *The Cyclops* went on sale through the Warner Archive Collection but it is likely that the WHV embargo applies in this case.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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Just curious what's exactly missing from the edited/cut version? This movie was released in 1957 (lol I was 2) and one would have an amazingly good memory from that long ago to complain if somethings been cut out.

Animated_Cyclop_1.gif

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It's a shot or two of the spear in the monster's eye.

 

As for Castle Films, I think it would be a hoot for TCM to have an hour or two hour festival of Castle Films Complete Edtions. Oh, wait, I forgot - Broadcast Rights Reserved!

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I don't know when *The Cyclops* went on sale through the Warner Archive Collection but it is likely that the WHV embargo applies in this case.

 

It went on sale on November 18, 2010.

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*"It went on sale on November 18, 2010."* - clore

 

I don't know if it makes any difference but didn't you write that the original issue was "flawed" causing WHV to pull the film for awhile and offer replacements to the early buyers? (If November 2010 was the date the very first copies went on sale.)

 

Just wondering of the moratorium was "reset" with a later date that corresponds to the date the improved discs went on sale.

 

Just a thought.

 

If one wants to bring their concerns to the attention to TCM, I suggest using the "contact us" link found at the bottom of every Forum page or even trying to contact the previously noted TCM staffer using the Forum's "Private Message" system.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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I don't know if it makes any difference but didn't you write that the original issue was "flawed" causing WHV to pull the film for awhile and offer replacements to the early buyers? (If November 2010 was the date the very first copies went on sale.)

 

Within a month, there were enough complaints for the Archive people to make the replacement available:

 

http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuku.com/topic/35061/Warners-THE-CYCLOPS-uncut?page=1#.T5gj1dXO-So

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