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Ingrid Bergman Day


RMeingast
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I chose to put a more positive spin on today's Bergman films. Yes, some are not that great, others are, depending on your point of view. But all feature Ingrid Bergman and for her fans, that's enough.

 

Kudos to TCM for airing two of the Rossellini/Bergman films: "Stromboli" and "Europa '51."

American film critics didn't understand those films at the time they were released, but as the TCM article on "Europa '51" states:

 

"More recently film scholars have come to view the Rossellini-Bergman films in a different light, realizing that both thematically and artistically, Rossellini's work was ahead of its time, particularly in the case of *Europa '51*. While the film could certainly be viewed as Rossellini's vision of the current state of the world in all its confusion, *Europa '51* is also an exploration of Ingrid Bergman's persona. The critic Guarner said it best when he wrote, "An attempt is made to express a far-reaching moral conflict, which is incarnated in a woman's face, merely by means of a series of actions, sketched out in a few strokes with a simplification that touches on abstraction. Ultimately, it is this face that gives coherence to an otherwise discontinuous film, in the same way as the image of Falconetti or Anna Karina fills the gaps in La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc [1928|http://forums.tcm.com/] and Vivre sa vie [1962|http://forums.tcm.com/]....The film is an ascent from the darkness of the beginning towards a dazzling light of the end, when Irene...regain her inner freedom.""

 

Also, none other than Martin Scorsese has been impressed by "Europa '51" as, again, the TCM article states:

 

"Only in recent years has *Europa '51* enjoyed a resurgence of interest, partly due to Martin Scorsese's unequivocal praise for it in his documentary on Italian cinema, My Voyage to Italy (Il Mio Viaggio in Italia, 1999)."

 

So kudos to TCM...

 

Would be nice to see the other Rossellini/Bergman films on TCM someday too. Maybe as a whole block of films - they made 5 in total...

 

The others are:

 

"Viaggio in Itali" ("Journey to Italy") that has been aired on TCM before...

 

[img=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Viaggio_in_Italia.jpg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Viaggio_in_Italia.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Giovanna d'Arco al rogo" ("Joan of Arc at the Stake")

51ygTd0PmhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

 

"La Paura" ("Fear" - US title or "Angst" - German title)

 

Angst_film_poster.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Viaggio_in_Italia.jpg|http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/Angst_film_poster.jpg

 

 

Mathias Wieman and Ingrid Bergman in "Fear" ("La Paura" or "Angst")

 

treasure_fear.jpg

 

 

Edited by: RMeingast on Aug 29, 2012 10:52 AM

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> {quote:title=TopBilled wrote:}{quote}Your post could very easily have been inserted into Addison's already established thread about Ingrid on TCM today. Keeping your intentions in mind, it would have counterbalanced any negativity you felt existed in that thread about TCM.

 

I know, and I did post some comments there... But I found the thread subject heading very negative and wanted to start a more positive thread. And I didn't really want to post any more comments in that thread that would continue to showcase the negativity about Bergman's films today.

I'm a fan of Bergman and like her in good and bad films... Just wanted to be more positive, that's all...

Nothing to do with TCM...

 

Thanks TB...

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> {quote:title=RMeingast wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=TopBilled wrote:}{quote}Your post could very easily have been inserted into Addison's already established thread about Ingrid on TCM today. Keeping your intentions in mind, it would have counterbalanced any negativity you felt existed in that thread about TCM.

> I know, and I did post some comments there... But I found the thread subject heading very negative and wanted to start a more positive thread. And I didn't really want to post any more comments in that thread that would continue to showcase the negativity about Bergman's films today.

> I'm a fan of Bergman and like her in good and bad films... Just wanted to be more positive, that's all...

> Nothing to do with TCM...

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> Thanks TB....

*THANK YOU*, RMeingast, both for this thread and for consistently looking on the positive side.

 

I do NOT mean it as a dig to anyone posting here, but I much prefer the kind of information and trivia you post to a lot of negative personal opinions and/or criticism of TCM's programming choices.

 

It seems to me as if attempting to contribute to threads like the other Ingrid discussion is most likely to result in either conflict or being ignored entirely.

 

Maybe it's too "lemonade-out-of-lemons" of me, but I think there's much to be learned from even an artist's "worst" films (though I find even Bergman's "worst" to be better than most of today's "best").

 

For example ... sitting here watching Stromboli for what must be the fifth or sixth time, I'm just now struck by how analagous it is to what Bergman and Rossellini had to go through when their affair became known.

 

The small-minded island villagers ostracize Bergman's character because she is not "modest."

 

ingrid-bergman-at-stromboli-by-gordon-pa

 

In real life, the out-of-wedlock birth of Bergman and Rossellini's first child in 1950 was so "immodest" that it ignited a firestorm of scandal and turned her into such a pariah that United States Senator Edwin C. Johnson of Colorado would ultimately condemn Ingrid as "a powerful influence for evil" !

 

Even the reported discomfort she felt -- having spent her career working in the most "professional" of environments only to find herself surrounded with villagers who'd never acted before -- works to her advantage, increasing the sense of her isolation and "fish-out-of-water" status.

 

I'm looking forward to Europa '51 later today, as well as the other Bergman films I've never seen and I'm extremely grateful to TCM for showing them.

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> *THANK YOU*, RMeingast, both for this thread and for consistently looking on the positive side.

>

> I do NOT mean it as a dig to anyone posting here, but I much prefer the kind of information and trivia you post to a lot of negative personal opinions and/or criticism of TCM's programming choices.

>

> It seems to me as if attempting to contribute to threads like the other Ingrid discussion is most likely to result in either conflict or being ignored entirely.

>

> Maybe it's too "lemonade-out-of-lemons" of me, but I think there's much to be learned from even an artist's "worst" films (though I find even Bergman's "worst" to be better than most of today's "best").

>

Thank you, Countess Valeska, for your kind remarks...

 

But I wasn't in any snit or anything... ADW explained about why she started the other thread and it's fine with me... Guess I misunderstood her at first... No big deal... I'll post on the other one and let this one wither and die...

 

It's just so easy to get involved in negativity and so easy to say bad things about anything rather than try and be positive. Especially about movies.

There are bad things in life to be negative about, that's for sure.

But not movies, I don't think...

Anyway, me gonna try and be more positive from now on...

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> {quote:title=ValeskaSuratt wrote:}{quote}No snit intended or implied.

>

> You're a mensch, Count Rmeingast.

 

 

Better knock off the love-in here, I guess, Countess...

 

It might go to my head...

 

I referred to some Guy Maddin flicks in the other Bergman thread. Especially the short film made by Guy Maddin with Isabella Rossellini about her father... You've probably seen them, I'm sure...

 

Sorta neat seeing her playing her mother in that film... :)

 

Edited by: RMeingast on Aug 29, 2012 4:13 PM

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> {quote:title=RMeingast wrote:}{quote}

>

> I referred to some Guy Maddin flicks in the other Bergman thread. Especially the short film made by Guy Maddin with Isabella Rossellini about her father... You've probably seen them, I'm sure...

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> Sorta neat seeing her playing her mother in that film... :)

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I want to go back in time, grab that &$%#@& U.S. Senator by the scruff off the neck and show the old poop some Isabella Rossellini movies ...

 

"Evil ??? Did you say 'EVIL' ... ???"

 

Sublime is more like it.

 

tumblr_l5hp6xF7el1qcvdh0o1_500.jpg

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> {quote:title=lavenderblue19 wrote:}{quote}Meingast and Valeska, you are both menches. I couldn't agree more, and I know many on this bd feel the same way. There are always a few rotten apples that live to be negative in every post. It's pitiful. I'm not annoyed anymore, I just feel sorry for them.

I think everyone has the right to post whatever they want to -- within board regs of course.

 

I don't condemn "negativity" ... I just prefer discussing *classic movies* and especially sharing fun trivia (rare clips, photos, articles, etc.) that helps contextualize what we're seeing.

 

An example:

 

Watch Judy Garland's Get Happy *without* knowing her story ... ? And it's wonderful ...

 

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*But ...* imagine watching it AFTER finding out the behind-the-scenes story ...

 

 

GetHappy1.jpg

 

... that Judy had been very plump all through production but she started slimming down when she finished the picture ...

 

Tthen MGM decided the film needed another number so she came back to the studio all rested and slimmed down and on top of her game again and she cranked out this *spectacular* numbo in about day ....

 

But what does MGM do ? Fires her tuchas off Annie Get Your Gun ... her personal troubles wind up splashed all over the headlines ... and she ends up slashing her throat ... !!

 

*NOW* ... watch Get Happy !

 

That's the fun of context, baby ...:;)

 

 

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> {quote:title=ValeskaSuratt wrote:}{quote}

> I want to go back in time, grab that &$%#@& U.S. Senator by the scruff off the neck and show the old poop some Isabella Rossellini movies ...

 

 

 

Well, that senator has been largely forgotten. And the ruckus he tried to cause reflects poorly on him rather than his intended targets. Apparently his infamous senate comments and his attempt to get legislation passed to licence actors and actresses for moral purity are the only thing he was ever known for...

 

Anyway, read for yourselves about the senator's nonsense here in this book, "Freedom of the Screen: Legal Challenges to State Film Censorship, 1915-1981:

 

http://books.google.ca/books?id=dvzHIRpfY1UC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=senatoredwinc.johnsonmorality+actors&source=bl&ots=F5zB2dWPBb&sig=K0rTTPTEif1sZDifWZ5dkcTss_M&hl=en#v=onepage&q=senator%20edwin%20c.%20johnson%20morality%20actors&f=false

 

Anyway, let's switch the Ingrid Bergman (and daughter Iz) love-in to the "other" thread, if you wish, or not, if you don't wish! (Ain't I wishy-washy or what?)

 

As for negative comments, everybody can post what they want on the message board. People are as different as snowflakes. No big deal. Just that I can do my own thing too, eh...

As long as we don't disrespect each other personally, like the TCMAdmin reminded us all recently...

 

Edited by: RMeingast on Aug 29, 2012 5:18 PM

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Just one more thing...

 

Checking Facebook and see TCM announced today's Ingrid Bergman films on the "30th anniversary of her death":

 

Then, BFI also on Facebook announced an "Ingrid Bergman: A Life in Pictures" feature today on the "97th anniversary of her birth":

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/ingrid-bergman-life-pictures

 

No right or wrong. Just different. She was born on August 29, 1915 - 97 years ago today - and died on August 29, 1982 - 30 years ago today...

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THANK you for that link.

 

A most stunning excerpt:

 

{font:Times New Roman}“The Rossellini-Bergman liaison, like the Fatty Arbuckle scandal of the 1920s, so incensed many Americans that one powerful senator introduced a bill in Congress that would have certified all film actors, producers, and directors with licenses rescindable for moral turpitude.{font}

 

 

{font:Times New Roman}“The bill’s sponsor, Colorado Senator Edwin C. Johnson, chairman of the Interstate Commerce Committee and a Joe McCarthy emulator, demanded ‘a method whereby the mad dogs of the industry may be put on a leash to protect public morals.’

{font}

 

 

{font:Times New Roman}“*He called Rossellini ‘vile and unspeakable’ and Bergman an ‘apostle of degradation.’*”{font}

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My, weren't HIS panties in a wad ...

 

 

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> {quote:title=ValeskaSuratt wrote:}{quote}

> THANK you for that link.

>

> My, weren't HIS panties in a wad ...

>

 

Yes, but that guy has mostly been forgotten, and rightly so... (This where you can get into the negative stuff when referring to politicians.) And here we have an Ingrid Bergman Day on TCM...

So there you go...

 

But interesting how some things have little changed in the United States and Canada between then and now.

I'm referring, of course, to a person running for the US Senate who was in the news recently concerning some "theories" he believes in...

We have the same characters in Canada, unfortunately...

Oh well... Back to the movies...

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