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On today: a parade of the the worst films Ingrid Bergman made.


AddisonDeWitless
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Under Capricorn, A Rage in Heaven, Stromboli. Saratoga Trunk, Jekyll and Hyde (in which she is good, but it is such a bore!) and (later tonight) Joan of Arc.

 

Well, I think they covered it: pretty much every total misfire the woman was ever in.

 

Never thought Gaslight could be the highlight of a schedule.

 

ps- never seen Europa 51 or Elena and her Men, but they look pretty bad too.

 

Edited by: AddisonDeWitless on Aug 29, 2012 9:46 AM

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Europa '51 isn't that bad a movie, but since most of the actors are Italian and the film is shot in English, you've got a serious problem. In fact the first time I saw it, I thought it was just another badly dubbed print.

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Saratoga Trunk may have more than its share of flaws. On the positive side, however, it has great production values, with wonderful sets and costumes, a great, great, great musical score by Max Steiner, Cooper is fun in the closest that he came to playing Rhett Butler, and he and Bergman do have chemistry.

 

If the film, ultimately, seems a bit of a misfire (script, pacing and direction are deadly, not to mention the miscasting of Bergman), it's still representative of the studio system days when not a cent seemed to be spared on the look of one of its products.

 

It's an extraordinarily handsome production, never boring to the eye.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkQnA6eP380oxDg2Jya_m

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGTusUryZv2HriuKQa931

 

They sure looked like movie stars in those days.

 

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> {quote:title=TomJH wrote:}{quote}Saratoga Trunk, ultimately, seems a bit of a misfire

Um, yes- a bit. And the Titanic was slightly delayed on her first trip across the pond.

 

Five minutes ago, Bergman was trying not to get hit in the nose with a peach floating in her champagne while the guffawing midget was doing his Curley routine, spinning donuts on the floor. All the while, Flora Robson stood by scowling, bearing more than a passing resemblance to the guy who played Punjab in the Annie movie. Maybe if she'd known she was gonna score a nomination for being in this pile of horse hockey she could've managed a smile.

 

Am I not supposed to say "midget"? Oh well.

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> {quote:title=Hibi wrote:}{quote}LOL. Welcome to SUTS, Addison! Newer viewers are getting a skewed look at the stars careers. Part of the reason I'M SO BORED! Guess it's cheaper to rent the bad/mediocre ones?

See my more positive thread... Have no idea how and why TCM chooses films to run.

Maybe nice if somebody who knows would explain for us little people...

 

But like every film TCM runs, some are good and some are bad. Some people think the "bad" ones are actually not so bad, and some may think the "good" ones are actually not so good.

Everybody has a different opinion...

 

 

 

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> {quote:title=AndyM108 wrote:}{quote}Europa '51 isn't that bad a movie, but since most of the actors are Italian and the film is shot in English, you've got a serious problem. In fact the first time I saw it, I thought it was just another badly dubbed print.

Well, hope you see it again... Film director Martin Scorsese considers "Europa '51" one of his 85 must-see films and he has very high praise for it:

 

 

*"Europa ’51:* “After making The Flowers of St. Francis, Rossellini asked, what would a modern day saint be like? I think they based it on Simone Weil, and Ingird Bergman played the part. It really takes everything we’re dealing with today, whether it’s revolutions in other countries or people trying to change their lifestyles, and it’s all there in that film. The character tries everything, because she has a tragedy in her family that really changes her, so she tries politics and even working in a factory, and in the end it has a very moving resolution.” [Also known as The Greatest Love] 1952"

 

The article with Scorsese's other 84 films is here:

 

http://www.fastcocreate.com/1679472/martin-scorseses-film-school-the-85-films-you-need-to-see-to-know-anything-about-film

 

But what does he know, eh?? Anyway, best for people to keep an open mind and try and set biases aside. Or not. Whatever...

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> {quote:title=RMeingast wrote:}{quote} See my more positive thread... Have no idea how and why TCM chooses films to run...some are good and some are bad. Some people think the "bad" ones are actually not so bad...Everybody has a different opinion...

Believe it or not, it's my respect and admiration for Miss Bergman that led me to launch this critical thread- an act which, believe it or not, I try not to do too often, but every now and then, something on the schedule just piques me.

 

Whenever there is a salute to a STAR on the network, I always think to myself "what would (said STAR) say if they saw these titles lined up?" I have a sneaking suspicion that Ingrid herself, when faced with the line-up of Rage in Heaven, Saratoga Trunk, Under Capricorn, Jekyll and Hyde and Joan of Arc would have a momentary loss for words before uttering a polite "oh well, where shall we lunch today?" to change the subject.

 

I think Heaven, Trunk, Arc and Capricorn aired on the same day are no tribute to Bergman because, while it's not her fault they're dogs, she clearly knows they're dogs, and she's working so hard to pick up the slack she knows is there that she herself becomes a bit tiresome in each.

 

Anyone who would watch all four fo those films would get a whole different idea of who Bergman was and what kind of a career arc she had.

 

I'm fine with the Rosselini films airing and Trunk or Capricorn airing, but they needed to balance the ratio of good-to-bad today by throwing in The Inn of the Sixth Happiness, Intermezzo, Notorious, Indiscreet, For Whom the Bell Tolls (my choice for the prime-time slot) Cactus Flower and/or Murder on the Orient Express.

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I agree that INTERMEZZO needs to be shown. It has not aired on TCM in quite some time. I thought for sure it would get played during Leslie Howard's SOTM tribute in July but it was overlooked.

 

CASABLANCA is scheduled for primetime tonight. That is definitely one of her more well-known and lauded films.

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I disagree entirely. How many times have we heard complaints that TCM just shows the same old "best of the best" for SUTS? So this year they are showing lesser known films and I applaud that because I like seeing pictures I have never seen or seldom see. Rage In Heaven is something I regret forgetting to set the DVR for. Saratoga Trunk has many delightful moments, and I love Flora Robson in everything she does. Joan of Arc was a project she poured her heart and soul into. Under Capricorn is a poor hitchciock but I am sure many have never seen it. Stromboli, am jaor change in her life. And tonight we have a premiere of Elena And Her Men. Being a big Bergman fan, I am a very happy camper. (And, of course, Casablanca, which may be a TCM staple, but it is my favorite movie!!!!!)

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> {quote:title=AddisonDeWitless wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=Hibi wrote:}{quote}

> > Flora gets around. She was on playing a Chinese empress last night.

> She's a veritable International House of Pancakes. Isn't she also Vivien Leigh's wild-eyed Egyptian maidservant Titicaca (or whatever) in Caesar and Cleopatra (1946)?

 

Yes. But her best was in playing Queen Elizabeth I in a few films.

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Good point, filmlover. Complaints when they show the "same old-same old", and complaints when they DON'T. It all at best gives us a chance to view someone's full body of work( or a wider look), and the chance to form an opinion of said actor BASED on a wider experience.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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I don't think it's too "out there" to assume that there is a schedule that is a perfect mix of being a good retrospective for said star whilst having titles that are wisely chosen with regards to their rarity and level of inn-terest (they don't all have to be perfect.)

 

When TCM does these days throughout the year that are a tribute to an actor, actress, screenwriter- whatever, they have to realize that they create a biographical story arc for that person with what films they choose and how they arrange them on the schedule. A lot of us are very reverential towards these films and people, and while it's great that we have this glorious outlet known as TCM, sadly, just being able to seeing classic titles and stars isn't enough. We want to think some consideration and thought goes in to how their work is displayed, just as you wouldn't want to go to a museum where the lesser works and sketches of artists were just thrown all higgledy-piggledy over the walls....and that's even considering the budget crunch that I know hasn't made things easy.

 

So, the story being told about Bergman today is not being told the way I think it would be best to tell it, the way it should be told.

 

 

The only story I see in this schedule is: "Bergman day, again? All right, let's see what we got...Two hours here, two hours there. Oh, we got this thing laying around, it's two-and-a-half, let's show it. Anything Public Domain? Great. All righty, Gaslight at six, "Casablanca" at ten; and presto, we're done. Who's tomorrow and can it be someone we can use "Zhivago" for?"

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Well, filmlover, you have posted almost exactly my sentiments. I have seen and own copies of all the films shown so far, and was pleasantly surprised by the mixture of titles from Ms. Bergman.

 

TCM has always been my favourite channel, and I am grateful for the variety of films shown, that otherwise would be gathering dust somewhere because no regular stations would touch.

 

I have learned to appreciate what TCM offers, because I remember growing up reading about Classic films and seeing movie stills and posters of them, I could only dream about the day I could see as many as I could.

 

I feel like a child in a Candy Shop, whilst watching TCM.

 

Thanks.

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Being a new classic fan, I regrettably haven't seen much Bergman so alot of this is new to me.. I watched *Adam had four sons* and really liked Bergman in this movie, beautiful, strong, protective of her family... I was so tired though that I took a nap afterward.. I think I'll watch Gaslight tonight and the rest of the primetime offerings or at least DVR them.

 

If a star intrgues me like Bergman does, I like to see their films and form my opinion and since basically all of them are new to me, I can't really say their bad now can I?

 

 

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> {quote:title=AddisonDeWitless wrote:}{quote}Under Capricorn, A Rage in Heaven, Stromboli. Saratoga Trunk, Jekyll and Hyde (in which she is good, but it is such a bore!)

I don't think Under Capricorn is particularly good...but I do admit to liking Jekyll & Hyde better than I used to. It's actually very interesting psychologically and symbolically (the horsewhipping dream scene is outrageous for the time).

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> Believe it or not, it's my respect and admiration for Miss Bergman that led me to launch this critical thread- an act which, believe it or not, I try not to do too often, but every now and then, something on the schedule just piques me.

>

> Whenever there is a salute to a STAR on the network, I always think to myself "what would (said STAR) say if they saw these titles lined up?" I have a sneaking suspicion that Ingrid herself, when faced with the line-up of Rage in Heaven, Saratoga Trunk, Under Capricorn, Jekyll and Hyde and Joan of Arc would have a momentary loss for words before uttering a polite "oh well, where shall we lunch today?" to change the subject.

>

> I think Heaven, Trunk, Arc and Capricorn aired on the same day are no tribute to Bergman because, while it's not her fault they're dogs, she clearly knows they're dogs, and she's working so hard to pick up the slack she knows is there that she herself becomes a bit tiresome in each.

>

> Anyone who would watch all four fo those films would get a whole different idea of who Bergman was and what kind of a career arc she had.

>

> I'm fine with the Rosselini films airing and Trunk or Capricorn airing, but they needed to balance the ratio of good-to-bad today by throwing in The Inn of the Sixth Happiness, Intermezzo, Notorious, Indiscreet, For Whom the Bell Tolls (my choice for the prime-time slot) Cactus Flower and/or Murder on the Orient Express.

I'm not upset with you ADW, and thanks for explaining... Have no idea why and how TCM does what they do regarding films they air... Would be nice it somebody who knows would explain the process, using an example. I imagine they have to use films they have the rights to, and I don't know, but maybe they're looking towards ratings and what other TV channels are airing??

I have no idea??

 

Sorry if I thought your thread was being rather mean and negative towards Bergman.

I like her in both good and bad films... And I suppose it's nice just to be able to see her in so many different films in one day... Whether they are her best or worst.

I guess if TCM only showed what were considered her "best" films, then the "others" might be ignored and even lost and that would be a sad thing too. For there is something good in every movie, hard as it may be to first see...

 

The Rossellini films being an example, when they were first released, critics, mostly in the United States, thought they were crap. But today, people feel differently about them.

(A lot of the negativity about the Rossellini films probably was from Bergman leaving Hollywood to go to Italy with Rossellini. Also that her affair with Rossellini was regarded as scandalous at the time and people were making moral judgements about her private life. That was all in the media and probably just fed on itself and spread to ridiculous proportions. Believe it or not, she was denounced in the US Senate! And Ed Sullivan refused to have her on his TV show!!)

 

Anyway, no problems and thanks again for explaining... I'll just let my other "positive" thread die then...

 

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