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off topic : bluray - DVD combos


classiccinemafan
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There have been a few (a very few). They call these flippers. But early experiments in putting the two together resulted in a mess. Because of their different properties, they had to glue a Blu disc and a DVD together. It turned out to be a mess. Having the movie on two sides elininates the chance for any disc art. And there were reports of playback error. Another concern was that while people would play the DVD in portable players while traveling, the Blu side might get damaged.

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These combo deals have bugged me for years. I don't have a Blu player - don't want one. Thus I hardly want a DVD/Blu combo of anything. What would I do with the Blu? Use it as a coaster??? Quite frankly I think Blu is just an expensive stop-gap between the DVD and streaming eras. And more worrisome for Blu fans is that streaming has arrived trouble-free in many places about three years earlier than I first supposed. That doesn't mean that people that are "Blu-crazy" will stop wanting their Blus, but it does mean it's likely the studios will begin to abandon Blu for streaming the way they abandoned DVDs for Blu.

 

At any rate, since Blu came in all I can find in newer releases of films is a bare-bones disc of the film when just three years ago a regular DVD would be loaded with extras. I happen to enjoy all of that film school twaddle. Now all of that extra work is concentrated on the Blus only.

 

 

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> {quote:title=calvinnme wrote:}{quote}Quite frankly I think Blu is just an expensive stop-gap between the DVD and streaming eras

Well, you can get a Blu-ray player for $38 today, $100 or less in general. Disc prices aren't any higher than DVD ever was and HDTVs are going for very fair prices so I don't think the "expensive" canard rings true anymore. It's stubborness - you don't have to replace your DVDs, a Blu-ray player plays them, and you don't have to pay a lot to get Blu-ray. If your DVD player broke down, it makes little sense not to just jump on board (Blu-rays even play on SDTVs.) This transition has been smooth as silk.

 

And it's hardly a stop gap. It's already apparent that streaming is only taking over the rental business - Blu-ray market share is actually rising faster than expected and there's no feasible way to transmit that level of quality via cable. If ISPs are increasingly going to set bandwidth caps, it just can't happen. The common 250 GB cap would be eaten up by a handful of Blu-ray sized files and time won't necessarily fix that; if we move to 4K in the 2020s, the data capacity required will be even greater (as I recall reading, 4K TVs won't even begin to be available widely or affordable until 2022 and I doubt it will catch on that fast.) The expandable Blu-ray specification could handle that without the creation of a new format. Not to mention Blu-ray is used and will be used for more than movies - video games require their storage capacity (and if anything goes entirely internet-based first, it will be video games, which is still many years off.) Blu-ray has at least 10 more years, probably much more, which will place its longevity at the levels of its predecessors.

 

Blu-ray isn't meant to replace DVDs and shouldn't be thought of that way (DVD isn't really being phased out either - the success of the Warner Archive alone is proof of that.) They can and should coexist.

 

On Blu-ray/DVD combo packs: For importers this is wonderful if your Region B Blu-ray has a compatability issue and you can't update your player (which will erase the Region Free capability.) The DVD is always there in that case. As for price - the most I've paid for a dual format is $25, which isn't bad. I've picked up others for about $17. It's not a problem.

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> {quote:title=JonasEB wrote:}{quote}

> Well, you can get a Blu-ray player for $38 today

 

I have purchased one of those. The DVD player in the workroom has been in need of cleaning yet again and it is a finicky thing as one of the shrouds is delicate. It is also that it was a cheap one at first and it was not designed for the use it has had. We thought to replace it and waited until a Blu-Ray player at the same cost as a standard player became available.

 

The change in quality by the upscaling of standard DVD is not so great that it would have been worth the price but it fits well being a replacement rather than an upgrade.

 

I believe the combination of standard DVD and Blu-Ray DVD in one package is a good move. The majority of the cost is in the packaging, shipping and handling of an item. Putting two disks in one package saves a considerable amount and it allows the building of a library of Blu-Ray titles at little additional cost when buying DVDs. I like very much also that I am buying a back-up copy at far less price than purchasing two DVDs.

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Jonas, I'm not so stubborn as I'm stingy. I have four currently functional DVD players at my house. I don't need to pay $38 dollars to upgrade to something I don't want or need. Blus are cheaper than they have been but still more expensive than standard DVD. That's all that matters to me.

 

Yes, the Warner Archive will continue to thrive for some time just because some of us want the media in our hot little hands. Also, some will care about the fact that Blu quality just isn't possible via streaming. However most people are happy with DVD quality if they have the convenience of streaming without the clutter of physical media. That's why music downloads have thrived - besides the fact that the music industry wanted to sell you 15 mediocre tunes on a CD plus the one good one you wanted. People enjoy the convenience of the IPod. Once Steve Jobs got the music industry heads in a room and slapped them around for a few hours and got them to join the 21st century that was the end of the CD.

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Calvin, do you have an HDTV or not? If you don't, then I can see you not needing a Blu player, but if you do, then it would be not only silly, it would be wasteful to avoid a Blu player for whatever reason you may try to put forward. If you do have an HDTV, then playing a DVD over a DVD player to it shows the limitation of the DVD disc. In layman's term, it may have looked good on an old TV, but it looks like crap on HDTV.

 

A Blu player not only plays Blu-rays and DVDs, it upgrades a DVD's image and sound better than a DVD player can do. And most Blu players provide streaming now.

 

By the way, I must take exception to you saying streaming has arrived without problem. I would be hard pressed to think of one movie or TV show I have streamed that didn't pause itself at some point. It's a tempermental technology, at best.

 

And Blus may, for the most part, be a few dollars more, but you do benefit from the greater picture quality, color, and sound. Many times, though, I have seen Blus priced less than DVDs for the same title. And here's another major point, even if you are careful with a DVD, it can get scratched. And if you try to clean it with a soft cloth or tissue, you are likely to scratch it more. Not so Blu-ray discs. They have a protective coating and you can just wipe off fingerprints or "scratches" with a tissue and it is brand new again.

 

I think your resistance is not really about being "stingy." If you can pay $10-20 for a WarnerAchive DVD-R, then I hardly think money is the issue. And I don't think it is that you think Blus are physical media clutter. That wouldn't make sense since you still buy DVDs, and Blus can sometimes have just one disc that contains what is on three DVDs. Besides, the packaging for Blus is smaller, so it saves space. And they weigh less than DVDs and laser discs and VHS tapes.

 

I think you just resent that Blu has taken the place of DVDs as the choice of buyers. And if you truly like the extras and "film school twaddle", then you should be owning a Blu player. There are a number of titles that have picture-in-picture where you can see the making of a film as you are watching it, plus many other features.

 

True story: For a couple of years after CDs and portable CD players were introduced, I steadfastly REFUSED! to have anything to do with them. For whatever reason, I was resentful of the technology. But that changed the day I was in a store and a sales clerk said I should give it a listen. I put on the earphones, the CD started, and, wham!, I had never heard records sounding so clear or this good! I was hooked form that moment on.

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> {quote:title=MovieMadness wrote:}{quote}Usually those $38 Blu Ray models don't upscale at that price level, unless it was a market dump to rid old inventory. *You also have to use HMDI to get the upscale signal as far as i know, and very few people use that option.*

Very few people use the HDMI option? Almost everyone uses the HDMI option! No one would seriously consider using component or other cables from the player to the HDTV. Otherwise, it is like driving a Porsche in first gear...yes, it can be done, but for that you could have bought a VW.

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Hi filmlover. I'll answer you point by point.

 

I don't have an HDTV. My old SDTV works just fine.

 

Streaming has arrived without problem in some places. That alone surprises me. I am sure there are many places it has not arrived without problem. Streaming via Netflix has arrived at our house without problem in the last couple of months - we have DSL.

 

I can afford Warner Archive DVDs when they are on sale like they are today. At above 11-12 bucks a disc I consider them too expensive plus there's the very iffy quality. Hopefully the bunch I got today will be OK.

 

Believe me, my resistance really is about being stingy - I am of Scottish ancestry. Notice that the mascot for Thrifty Food Stores wears a kilt. :) Plus I don't want to wind up with a stack of the 21st century version of eight track tapes.

 

I understand that those in search of the best quality picture possible will feel differently from me on this issue.

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I would buy those combo sets if that's the only way I can obtain the movie. My recent acquisition was "This Is Cinerama". I like the way they overlap them on the same side of the case. I keep the DVD on the top so the Blu ray are within the inset. So long as they come in the same size standard DVD case, its no big deal.

 

If the combo is the only way I can get the movie, I will either get it at the single disc price or wait until the cost comes down. Doesn't hurt, chances are a Blu ray recorder will be purchased in the future when my DVD recorder goes on the fritz but I won't buy a cheapie.

 

One thing about the Blu ray disc, if the movie is short, the bonus feature is on the same disc while there are 2 seperate DVD disc with the same content. Examples are "Star Trek II" and "Tron" both 1982.

In the case of "This Is Cinerama", the DVD is a flipper - the movie on one side and the bonus on the other.

 

Some DVD's are flippers in that there are both screen formats on the same disc, standard size on one side and widescreen on the other.

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Hi, ham,

 

I don't always like getting a combo pack that has a Blu and a DVD if all the extras are on the Blu that are on the DVD. However, some manufacturers have gotten cheap, and instead of porting the extras over to the Blu, they add the original dvd and they tell you to use that to see the extras.

 

Combo packages have gotten even bigger in the last year, with three or four discs (or even five!) in them. A 3D Blu-ray, a Blu-ray, a DVD, and a digital copy.

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> {quote:title=filmlover wrote:}{quote}

> Very few people use the HDMI option? Almost everyone uses the HDMI option! No one would seriously consider using component or other cables from the player to the HDTV.

 

The player I purchased is very much bare-bones as the only connectors are for power, HDMI cable, coaxial audio and a USB slot for flashdrives or portable hard drives.

 

It upscales a standard DVD to 1080P. The difference between its picture and that from the standard DVD player it replaced which used component cables is slight but can be discerned. I have not yet played Blu-Ray on it.

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Sans, do you have an HDTV? And as far as upscaling a DVD to 1080p, it doesn't really quite do that. You can't add to what isn't there in the first place. If you have a DVD, it is limited to the number of pixels that the DVD allows. With a Blu disc, there is a lot more information in the picture quality. For example, you could play the DVD of The Robe on a Blu player and then the Blu-ray of it and you would see an incredible amount of difference in detail, color, and sound.

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filmlover wrote:

<< Combo packages have gotten even bigger in the last year, with three or four discs (or even five!) in them. A 3D Blu-ray, a Blu-ray, a DVD, and a digital copy. >>

 

I'm with you, that is ridiculous. Reminds me of thiose Fios ads where the *same* movie is sent to the television, computer, smartphone and ipad. WHY??

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Only 70% of households have even 1 HDTV and I bet a lot of those have the older DVD players so it is slowly getting to HDMI. And even when the option is there a large percentage may not be using it. I know of a family member that has all the latest technology and when the cable expert came in to set it all up he did not use HDMI cables, instead using the existing older cables.

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> {quote:title=filmlover wrote:}{quote}

> Sans, do you have an HDTV?

 

Yes.

 

> And as far as upscaling a DVD to 1080p, it doesn't really quite do that.

 

All I know of it is that it says on the box for the player: "1080P Up-Scaling" and "View Standard DVDs in Near HD". I assume it does some sort of interpolation to improve the picture.

 

I have not played a Blu-Ray on it as of yet. I am sure it will be much better but it is in the workroom where neither picture nor sound are of great importance.

 

We have a Sony DVD recorder which upscaled also. The picture was a little better than from other players but it was not so much better that it saved the recorder being retired when he bought a DVD recorder with a hard drive.

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It's even worse than that-

 

*In May 2012, 61% of all primetime viewing was done on an HD set, but much of that viewing was of standard- definition feeds, according to Nielsen. During that month about 29% of English-language broadcast primetime viewing and 25% of cable primetime viewing was in "true HD," the study found.*

 

So people are buying the HD sets but are mostly not watching HD TV. I think the main reason is the old def is still being broadcast on the normal channels and you have to go to high channel numbers like channel 355 to see the HD version at this time. Until they move the HD channels to the normal channel numbers most people won't bother to see HD. Also some of the cable companies charge more for the HD channels which removes many viewers. (Let me add this makes no sense if the channels are available as the HD broadcasts look ten times better).

 

Now if people are not watching HD TV then what are the chances they are all using HDMI? I think slowly people are shifting over but it will take years to get there. Even a station like TCM should be concerned as once the shift happens in a big way TCM may not look that good on HD TVs. We could see 4 times the definition of the current HD TVs in 10 years as standard and I can't imagine some of the old prints being able to withstand that exposure.

 

 

 

 

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> {quote:title=MovieMadness wrote:}{quote}

>

> So people are buying the HD sets but are mostly not watching HD TV. I think the main reason is the old def is still being broadcast on the normal channels and you have to go to high channel numbers like channel 355 to see the HD version at this time. Until they move the HD channels to the normal channel numbers most people won't bother to see HD.

>

 

I am not sure where people can only see the HD in the high number channels. I live in Los Angeles and on DISH the HD channel for, let's say, chanel 5 is also on chanel 5. If I were to change channels, it would go something like Channel 2, then Channel 2 HD, Channel 4, Channel 4 HD, etc.

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I assume you mean an upgrade in price, not an upcoverting of image. For HD programming, you have to have an HD DVR and as I recall the satellite dish must be a special HD dish. (It's been awhile, so I don't recall if the dish was changed for an HD one.) As far as costs go for the HD programming itself, DISH provides that "free for life" as part of an add-on to whatever package you choose.

 

http://www.dish.com/entertainment/packages/special/#

 

You have to remember, too, that not all stations have HD equivalents.

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> {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}It upscales a standard DVD to 1080P. The difference between its picture and that from the standard DVD player it replaced which used component cables is slight but can be discerned. I have not yet played Blu-Ray on it.

The "Looks like 1080p" thing really is just marketing hogwash but it does make the DVD look better than it would via DVD + composite or component cables. The best upscaling just squeezes out the maximum potential of the DVD rather than attempting a lot digital magic (like TCM's HD channel, which is heavily filtered.)

 

Results will vary depending on the disc. If it's full of digital artifacts that will become very apparent on an HDTV but if it's a well done disc it should hold up fairly well (like many Warner classic or Criterion DVDs.)

 

Blu-ray will be a pleasure, especially if your TV can do 1080/24p (72 or 120hz or higher, anything a multiple of 24fps.)

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I do not know if this will affect many here but I have found an issue with my new Blu-Ray player and I have researched it and I have found that this is not a fault of the unit but it is an issue with all Blu-Ray players: it does not allow displaying the Closed Captioning of DVDs recorded by the user.

 

The great majority of our collection is movies which we have recorded from broadcasts. We replace movies we recorded previously when a Closed Captioning version is aired.

 

This is of particular importance because we have some movies which are in a foreign language and do not have subtitles but are Closed Captioned in English.

 

I have read that this is a situation due to the HDMI and if a unit has component cables then it will display the Closed Captioning properly when using that input to the television instead of the HD.

 

It is fortunate that my new player is for a room where we will be doing other things and the movies will be playing as background and noise cancellation.

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