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OT: A moment of silence and prayer


Sepiatone

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Calamity wrote:

<< This terrible event has touched us all but for those personally affected, I'm so sorry. I will always keep the memories of those brave women & innocent children in my thoughts & prayers. May something good come from this, please, something that will stop a repeat of this awful, senseless loss. >>

 

Besides my earlier post about the job of parents and society, how do you expect anything to be done when the American prioities are, who's going to win the next ball games, or the final contestant on "Dancing With The Stars", the next smartphone unveiling, alien abductions, who will win the Oscars/Grammys/Tony awards, etc.

 

This is the society we created because we want things to be simple and sweet, no effort involved in the raising, educating our children because *our* selfish needs are more important (aka self gratification)

This republic is being divided and conquered! Sorry if the truth stings.

 

*They are coming of age!*

DeliberateDumbingDown.jpg

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Eeh! Now ham my friend, DON'T give up ALL hope for our future here, dude!

 

Ya see, just about the time I too think all the freakin' kids in this country are pretty much like the ones in your picture there, I'll happen to catch one of the "Teen Tournaments" on "Jeopardy", and after watching THOSE well behaved, well spoken and studious kids, it somehow renews my faith in America's future.

 

(...though admitted it DOES seem the idea of a kid now days being "well behaved, well spoken and studious" is akin to being even MORE "uncool" among his peers than it was when you and I were that age, doesn't it!) ;)

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There is one glaring omission in the discussion about guns. Along with the gun advocates' campaign to promote guns and impose them on American society through activities such as liberal concealed carry, and stand-your-ground laws, is the strong message that if you have a problem, use a gun to solve it. Nor is this message transmitted subtly or indirectly, but openly stated that the more guns there are, and the more people that have them, the better off America will be.

 

Certainly there need to be better gun laws. But along with that is the necessity to send a different message about guns, along the lines that the message about tobacco is now being sent. Smoking used to be portrayed as cool and sophisticated, as a natural part of everyday life. Now it is being restricted, eliminated from public life. The same campaigning should be done with guns, depicting them as something that should never be turned to as an answer, or ever resorted to.

 

 

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Oh and btw...In the last few days I've made four, count 'em FOUR comments were I've stated that shooting guns is NOT a "REAL sport" like tennis, basketball and every other REAL sport where one exerts their cardiovascular system, and which will help keep you from bein' a now typical overweight and out of shape American. And YET, no one...NOPE not a livin' soul here has challenged me on that...INCLUDING our resident lady originally from the Ukraine who stated she "gained self-confidence by shooting guns" in her youth.

 

And SO, because as they say, "Silence gives consent", I GUESS I'm just going to have to assume that EVERYBODY agrees with me on that, HUH!!!

 

Well, it's ABOUT TIME!!!

 

LOL

 

(...and so NOW, get out there and EXERCISE, PEOPLE!!!...I'm TIRED of lookin' at all your OVERLY LARGE American GUTS and BUTTS out there!!!!)

 

ROFL

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Well, the inevitabilities of old age are one kind, based on the experience

of how natural physical processes work. But that is different from a political

inevitability. So while it may be inevitable that eyesight will degrade, it is

not inevitable that a separate sales tax on soda will inevitably lead to its

eventual banning.

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No sting at all. This is the superficial, over-simplified, sky is falling mantra

that's been in play for...well a very long time. It used to be zip guns, comic

books, rock music, etc. that were going to bring young people and perhaps

the whole U.S. down. Now it's video games, reality TV, and smartphones that

will do the trick. But the world just keeps on spinning around, just as it always

has, despite what the doom mongers say.

 

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> {quote:title=Bildwasser wrote:}{quote}

> This is the superficial, over-simplified, sky is falling mantra that's been in play for...well a very long time.

 

I believe that people eagerly accept superficial and over-simplified answers because the world is so very complex that no person is able to properly weigh all of the correlative factors which affect human interaction and societal constructs. Frustration arising out of the alienation of their lifestyle by other generations, faiths or political parties and despair of their ever being able to realize their long-held dreams because of changes in economic or social structures lead people to cling to any plainly stated one-size-fits-all solution which is guaranteed to make their world a paradise.

 

The average person finds it hard to resist the promise that they can live freely and easily if they merely depose a tyrant, exile members of a certain religion or rid their town of the newest and shiniest evil menace.

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All true, but you forget that the NRA gives bucket and bucket and bucket loads of money to the crooked lying politicos in America, so once this tragedy is yesterday's news, any and all talk about gun control will be forgotten.

 

Doubt me?

 

Wait it out, see if I ain't right.

 

BTW, was the NRA guy bat**** crazy scary, or what? Blaming movies and teevee and such? He conveniently forgot about all the deaths by chainsaw and vampires and stuff that ain't happening on the streets of the US of A. :)

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SansFin wrote: "There are some statements which are so surreal that no response is possible."

-------------------------

 

Well Sans my ol' friend, I suppose I can see how someone who grew up in the repressive and depressive conditions of the Soviet culture, (which you so ably describe in your very next response to Bildwasser) could somehow develop this mild sense of paranoic tendencies enough to not only come to believe in some "surreal" imaginings that there would EVER be an instances where the American culture would devolve into a Soviet form, but in contrast would ALSO come to believe that ANY of MY statements in this thread(especially my contention that shooting guns is NOT a REAL sport) would be in any manner "surreal", EITHER!

 

(...nope, ya see dear lady, ALL of my very astute observations and thoughts in this thread, while perhaps occasionally bordering on the hyperbole for comic effect, were NEVER "surreal"!!!)

 

LOL

 

Edited by: Dargo2 on Dec 22, 2012 11:23 AM

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Yes, people like to use the sky is falling mantra especially political activist, but we must also remember the inverse of this mantra; that since the sky isn't falling nothing needs to change.

 

For example, the debate on climate change and what percentage of the change is due to mankind or nature. How often do we hear that since nature releases CO2 gases there is no need for mankind to reduce or regulate how much CO2 gases we release.

 

 

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> {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}

>

> The average person finds it hard to resist the promise that they can live freely and easily if they merely depose a tyrant, exile members of a certain religion or rid their town of the newest and shiniest evil menace.

 

So, then, should we NOT depose the tyrant, or rid ourselves of the evil menace?

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The NRA's "the only answer to a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" is straight out of a comic book. Columbine had an armed security guard, and it didn't help. Wouldn't we have to arm the security guards with fully automatic weapons, so they could out-gun the bad guys? Do we really want to have shootouts in schools?

 

 

Funny that we haven't heard from Mike00 since the 14th Baktun began. Perhaps he took that non-prophecy so seriously that he WAS affected by it?

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> {quote:title=ValentineXavier wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}

>> The average person finds it hard to resist the promise that they can live freely and easily if they merely depose a tyrant, exile members of a certain religion or rid their town of the newest and shiniest evil menace.

> So, then, should we NOT depose the tyrant, or rid ourselves of the evil menace?

 

To merely depose or rid is rarely effective in and of itself. There must be a competent plan to address the political, social, psychological and economic vacuum created. It is sad to say that it is the very nature of such preparations and considerations that they are quite complex and so the general populace is often content to allow such things to be left in the hands of those few who fed them the idea that the world would be better if it were not for that one thing.

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> {quote:title=jamesjazzguitar wrote:}{quote}

> ... but we must also remember the inverse of this mantra ...

> For example, the debate on climate change and what percentage of the change is due to mankind or nature. How often do we hear that since nature releases CO2 gases there is no need for mankind to reduce or regulate how much CO2 gases we release.

 

I believe that the inverse of that mantra is that there should be a ban on junk science. CO2's effect and the greenhouse gas theories are the result of assuming correlation is causation and a few seeing great profit in popularizing the misconception.

 

To apply the same methods of extrapolation to aircraft design shows that a cheaper alternative to aluminum and jet fuel would be a balsa-wood craft four hundred feet long powered by rubber bands 30cm thick and 2 kilometers long.

 

Examination of entrapped air shows that the CO2 levels millions of years ago were more than twelve times what they are today and that was during an ice age.

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It's only been a week, and already we have forgot the horror and moved on to global warming. Perhaps we simply don't want to be burdened with contemplation of the enormity of the slaughter and the profound rethinking of American society necessary to cope with it.

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> {quote:title=Dargo2 wrote:}{quote}

> "surreal" imaginings that there would EVER be an instances where the American culture would devolve into a Soviet form

 

I stated that restrictions were a slippery slope and that the best examples of what could happen via slippery slopes could be found by studying the early Soviet machinations.

 

I have looked at all of my posts in this thread and I could find no instance where I stated that United States would become another Soviet. I will apologize with all humility if my phrasing is so poor as to support such an allusion.

 

I have been tested and evaluated many times and in many ways for employment, licensing and education. None of them revealed an axis of paranoia.

 

The most recent has shown that I am more pragmatic and more skeptical than is average for students of this area. I believe that is likely because of the environment of my youth. That assumption is supported by my profile corresponding in most ways with the average for people who were children during the Great Depression.

 

> especially my contention that shooting guns is NOT a REAL sport

 

I believe that the more than one-hundred-and-forty-six countries with officially recognized marksmanship teams, many International accords supporting and regulating sport marksmanship and simple common sense make such a statement "surreal" under the definition of:

[səˈrɪəl] / adj / having the disorienting or hallucinatory quality of a dream or delusion; not arising from the real world;

 

Personal issues are beginning to limit my forum activity. I hope you do not interpret any lack of response by me in the future as tacit acceptance of any statements.

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> {quote:title=slaytonf wrote:}{quote}

> It's only been a week, and already we have forgot the horror and moved on to global warming. Perhaps we simply don't want to be burdened with contemplation of the enormity of the slaughter and the profound rethinking of American society necessary to cope with it.

 

I have not forgotten it. It perhaps sits more deeply with me because of certain things which it might be unwise to discus in open forum.

 

I am very skeptical that any rethinking will result in positive change because of factors which are often not included in such discussions:

1) Recent testing has conclusively shown that people who play certain types of violent video games on three consecutive days have "significantly" increased aggressiveness both short term and long term as well as "significantly" reduced prosocial behavior.

 

2) One public group, several private groups and an unknown number of individuals are making great strides in the production of automatic weapons using 3-D printers. It has been announced that one successfully fired multiple rounds. Such printers are becoming more common and their price is falling. Some schools now have such printers and plans for the parts will soon be available on the Internet..

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I think there's a happy medium between trying to account for every factor that

goes into causing something and just giving up and coming up with some

simplistic explanation. We likely won't know everything that went into Lanza's

decision to do what he did, yet realize it likely had very little to do with watching

Dancing With the Stars or being overly enthusiastic about the latest smartphone

app. At the end of the day, things can't always be explained fully.

 

 

The hoods from The Blackboard Jungle somehow passed through American culture

rather harmlessly and are probably lounging around the pool somewhere, listening

to soft jazz, and collecting their Social Security checks. Cool, daddy-o.

 

 

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True that. We have to pay attention to what's going on around us. The details

of climate change are way above my pay grade, so I can only go by the current

scientific consensus. I suppose the paradox is that if we have to wait a long time

to see if the theories about ACC/AGW are correct, it may be too late to do much

about it.

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Americans can rethink and reshape their society, or aspects of it. It takes dedication, and persistence, and many years, decades. The best examples of how this has happened is with cigarettes and the environment. Many fewer people smoke today and those who do smoke less. We are just beginning to see the reduction in death and illness from that bane. Regardless of your opinion of the appropriateness of environmental laws, there is much less pollution in our air, water, and food than there was thirty and forty years ago, and we are healthier for it. We can do the same with guns and gun violence. It takes strong, consistent, and coordinated action from the populace and institutions to project a clear message: guns are not the answer.

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There has always been a paranoic strain in our tradition. I think it comes partly from our one-time isolation, and the loss of that isolation. I think it still resides in smaller, more rural communities, rather than in large cities where there is more interaction -- a generalization, I know, but I think there is truth in it. Think of how such simple improvements as water flouridation were met with suspician. Think of how there are still mothers who are terrified of having their children vaccinated. Think of the terror some feel of the United Nations, God forbid they may appropriate some of our sovereignty! These things feed into the minds of certain individuals. Anything that is new or different is threatening. A little slight can be seen as a cosmic threat to our society. I think we are developing a better sense of America as part of the wider world, but in some corners of our country, particularly, suspician lurks.

 

An issue that I don't believe has been discussed much related to last week's tragedy is the fact that Lanza was home schooled for a while. There may have been extenuating circumstances, but I do not believe that is a good way to integrate children into society.

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ValentineXavier wrote:

<< Do we really want to have shootouts in schools? >>

 

Your post just reminded me how long the gun control argument has been going on. In 1972 an "All In The Family" episode "Archie and the Editorial" had this as a topic debating having guns or not. Archie Bunker's responsed to arm hijackers was arm the passengers. :^0

 

Here are the quotes from that gun control episode.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0509806/quotes

 

We can assume this debate will be going on for another 40 years. One of the few constants in the universe. ;)

 

Edited by: hamradio on Dec 22, 2012 9:22 PM

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