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Sepiatone

OT: A moment of silence and prayer

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Not that, I meant this need the two of you have to fight. You seem to like it. Maybe the room is the answer!

 

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Yeah, I know what you meant, I was trying to use some levity.

 

Well, i'm not fightin' no more, honest, Abe, err, I mean Swithin.

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I wish you would get in the spirit of the proceedings. The absence of fighting does not mean one is having fun. Are you having fun yet?

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{font:}The CBS Evening News reported tonight from Dumblane, Scotland, where 20 5-and-6 year-old students were also shot and killed several years ago showing how they have dealt with this and are responding to the Newtown community. I had totally forgotten about this which appalls me; we seem to go from one such incident to the other with nary a thought. Incidentally, Andy Murray was a student there on that day and was able to hide before the gunman got him. {font}

 

 

{font:}Hibi: You’re not alone in Michigan. The Legislature here closed down the TB hospital here and now we’re seeing a number of new cases with no place for them to get the best treatment or medical people to conduct research. And in Pinellas County, they went a year without fluoridated water to save 600K. Two of the proponents got replaced by folks who voted it back in. {font}

 

 

{font:}I posted something in the Westerns Forum Saturday night about this and [~scsu1975] kindly responded to me via e-mail saying much of what he posted here. As he lives nearby and is in education, I considered his opinion and left the issue alone. I appreciate his firsthand observations I’m glad that this discussion has been mostly flame-proof and hope it stays that way. {font}

 

 

{font:}The media has been ”unsensational” in its coverage perhaps because Newtown is so close to NYC and some reporters like Ashleigh Banfield live and have small children in the area. Also last night CBS played the audio of the President calling out the names of each of the 20 children but showing their photo as their name was called. When they cut back to anchor Scott Pelley he had his hands together as if in prayer. Our local papers have been informative but respectful as well. If only we could be that civil all the time. {font}

 

 

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Rich and Wouldbestar- Thank You both for your thoughtful and heartfelt posts on this thread. I think that's why Op started this thread. OUT OF RESPECT for the victims and their famililies KEEP this in mind when posting. STOP your selfish, self-centered, inane banter, PLEASE.

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I will present some information now that this thread is no longer about sympathy or condolences:

 

These were the laws where and when I was growing up:

Only law enforcement, soldiers and government officers could carry firearms at most times.

 

Citizens could own rifles and shotguns. The police kept them. Citizens had to have a pass stating exact dates and places where they were to be transported and used before the police would release the weapon to its owner.

 

Security guards could carry handguns which belonged to their service when on duty. The managers kept strict control over them because they could be charged as an accessory to any crime committed with such a handgun.

 

These laws were enforced to the extent that it was not uncommon for a person caught illegally with a weapon to be tried, convicted and shipped to prison the same day as their arrest.

 

My experience under these laws was:

The teacher I was to have the next year, three students who were visiting her and a friend of hers were killed in her home by her husband using a gun he had made.

 

A very good friend of mine who was very pretty had her face scarred by flying glass when a person shot the windows in our school using a Thompson Sub-Machine Gun.

 

Two of the six friends of mine who died when I was growing up were killed by firearms.

 

I had to work in an emergency room as part of my schooling. I believe it was a way of culling those who could not tolerate the sights and sounds of such work. It was common to have one shooting victim each day.

 

My father's employment exposed him to people of all types and he was expected often to procure things that were not strictly legal. It was common for him to be offered illegal pistols. It was not rare for him to be offered assault rifles or machine guns.

 

I was given a rifle when I was fourteen years of age. It was kept at the practice range. I had to show my identification and sign a book each time I went. The policeman there would give me my pass for the day and a set of ammunition. It happened at times that they would check my targets to compare the number of holes with the number of rounds I had been given. I was assigned a pistol when I was sixteen years of age. It could not be mine but I was the only one to use it. I could not have both the rifle and the pistol on the same day.

 

There were new policemen there one day because the old ones had been sent to jail or disappeared because nearly half of all of the handguns and many of the rifles kept there were stolen by them and sold to criminals. I am happy to say that my weapons were not stolen.

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SansFin, thank you for taking the time to post this information. There's so much to think about and digest it's hard to respond quickly...

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> {quote:title=jamesjazzguitar wrote:}{quote}Sorry I didn't mean to insult you but I still believe what you initially posted isn't close to being accurate.

>

> Again, you used the phase 'would NOT of happened'. While I agree changes to laws could be made to reduce the damage caused by the type of people who do these things (which I mention in my reply), there is NO evidence of any kind that changes to laws would prevent these type of events from NOT happening.

>

> Thus I agree with you 100% when you post "it would not have been the terrible event that it was" but that comment is a lot different than the one you initially posted of 'would NOT of happened'.

James, you're taking what I said out of context. Here's the complete statement (seems a bit vain to quote myself like this, but I do want to clarify.)

 

*"...This horrible slaughter would not have happened if the killer had not been able to access a certain type of weapon. If the sale of guns to civilians was limited to hand guns and rifles, then even if someone went berserk and decided to rush to a public place and kill as many people as possible, the number of "people possible" would be much lower. You just can't shoot as many human beings with a pistol or rifle as with an assault weapon intended for military use...."*

 

Please note my emphasis on the type of weapon used. I stick to what I said: had the killer been using a rifle or hand gun of some kind, he simply would not have been able to kill anywhere near as many as he did. He would have had to keep stopping to re-load, and in one of those intervals others could have over-powered him.

Although the death of even one human being, especially a young child, would still have been tragic, it would have been limited to a few people at most, instead of the wholesale massacre of 26 children and adults.So I still say it wouldn't have happened -I'll add this phrase: on the scale that it did - if he hadn't had access to a heavy duty assault weapon.

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I think a sensible discussion is beginning to take place. It is tragic that it needed the spark, but that's frequently the way it happens. It has started to affect economics/business -- gun stocks fell today; the company that made the nefarious weapon is up for sale, elected officials and entities who would never consider any form of gun control are making positive noises. Certain rifle sales have been suspended by a major retailer; even Wal-Mart is just beginning to get its toes wet. Gun shows are being cancelled, etc. Even the Republican Governor of Michigan vetoed a Republican bill today, that would have allowed concealed weapons, giving the tragedy as the reason. There's more, but the point is, this time it's different.

 

 

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> {quote:title=darkblue wrote:}{quote}

> It's probable that, had people been permitted to own as many assault weapons as are now owned in the U.S., you'd have many more such stories to remember.

 

I did not know any person who was killed by an assault rifle outside of combat. I know there were incidents of illegal assault rifles being used in crimes and for murders but they did not touch my friends or me.

 

There was this: My cousin was stabbed in her home and nearly died. I helped her obtain firearms for protection. A long time later she heard a woman calling for help. She picked up the weapon nearest to her and she stepped out into the hallway. The man assaulting the woman had a pistol. My cousin had a Kalashnikov. He dropped his pistol and ran. The number of rapes and burglaries in her building dropped significantly for many years after that.

 

I believe that bans never help. I believe they are always superficial reactions by people who do not understand underlying causes. One need only look at historical attempts to ban Bibles, alcohol, marijuana and many other things to see that bans simply do not work.

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It depends to a great extent on the society. Nothing is 100%. It has been working in Scotland and Australia. And there is always the little girl, who, playing with her father's legal gun, accidentally shoots herself. Would I use "recreational" drugs occasionally if they were legal and easily available? Maybe. Do I use them? No.

 

 

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I like to point out that one of the first well known serial killings (still unsolved) is that of Jack the Ripper who only used a knife.

 

There has always been mass slaughter throughout history long before the invention of firearms.

 

Swords and knifes does the killing up close and personal, guns do it from a distance.

 

Should there be a ban on sharp objects?

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> {quote:title=hamradio wrote:}{quote}

> Should there be a ban on sharp objects?

 

When will people become involved in banning dihydrogen monoxide?

 

It has caused many deaths and has been the instrument in many murders. It is used also in torture. .

 

For more information:

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

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Funny bit there, Sans(yeah, I got it right off, "DHMO" is "water"...uh huh, kinda like Soylent Green is people, huh ;) ), BUT I'm pretty darn sure that MOST of the suggestions offered up in this thread by our fellow members were regarding some modifications to our present U.S. laws regarding firearms and didn't mention the word "ban" in the overall general sense, but were in fact in regard to SOME types of firearms having the ability of firing scores of rounds without the need to reload, and in contrast to your funny little aside about "banning water" which appears to correlatively suggest some of our membership here WERE suggesting some sort of overall ban on firearm sales.

 

(...oh, and Ham my friend, this goes for you and your little "ban on sharp objects" thing here, too...yep, both of your funny little analogies were SO far off the mark in order to make your point as to be totally worthless to the conversation at hand...yep sorry...STILL thought your "DHMO" thing was rather funny though, Sans...yep, hats off for THAT anyway!) ;)

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Yep ham, I already knew that that little country of 8 million souls(about half the population of the greater Los Angeles), has compulsory military service of its citizens.

 

And thus, right THERE are just TWO of the reasons why your latest little attempted analogy to make your point is pretty much moot.

 

(...wanna try again, my friend?) ;)

 

LOL

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> {quote:title=Dargo2 wrote:}{quote}

> both of your funny little analogies were SO far off the mark in order to make your point as to be totally worthless to the conversation at hand

 

I meant to point out how ridiculous it is to turn hype into action.

 

What happened is very sad and very tragic. I believe that to use it as a springboard to push through emotional legislation which has no basis in reality of preventing future tragedies is either short-sighted or self-serving.

 

I choose to present this opinion by humorous interjection rather than boring tirade. It is obvious that I did failed.

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Nah, it didn't TOTALLY "fail", Sans!

 

Like I said, I DID think it was FUNNY...and in MY world, "funny" is ALWAYS welcomed!!! ;)

 

(...and actually, I agree with ya to a point...the prospects of some short-sighted and emotionally driven legislation now being passed by our representives, which in some cases may become overreaching, while in others may be underwelming to the degree of absurdity and pointlessness IS very possible)

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I don't consider myself a particularly optimistic person, but as I listened and watched the debate over the past few days -- and especially late today on television -- I began to feel that something big, something important was happening, and that there will be some change for the better. And to those (and there are always those) who think that nothing can be done, and there will be not one whit of improvement, the following words from my youth crept into my mind:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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