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Masculine Role Models for Young Women


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You don't get it, James.

 

 

Sure, there can be "prequels" to the *Star Wars* saga, because they're "lead-ups" to characters and events that happened in the first ones. Even in fantasy, we can accept that Darth Vader used to be someone else, because in the first set of trilogies, this idea was established, and "prequels" as to how Darth came about are fair game.

 

 

*The Wizard of Oz* is different. Even though the movie is, too, a fantasy, the land of Oz, the wicked witch of the west, Glinda, the good witch, the Munchkins, Scarecrow, Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion, ALL of that adventure never really took place because Dorothy only DREAMED it. Remember, the Scarecrow and Co. were actually the farmhands, and the Wizard was Professor Marvel. Each of them in the dream actually representing certain personality traits of who they were in Dorothy's "real" life, if you catch that drift.

 

 

The only way there can be a "prequel" showing how the Wizard got to Oz would have to start out with Dorothy getting hit in the head again, and dreaming THAT series of events. Which would be even dumber.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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Well a prequel has been released. To me you're taking this 'it is only a dream' thing way too seriously.

 

You see one can explain this in many ways other than the one you came up with. e.g. While Dorothy's experiences in the Land of Oz are all based on a dream, Oz actually exist, the wizard came from earth to Oz and the prequel is about his experiences.

 

I mean Dargo dreams about being with Ava Gardner. Does that mean she didn't exist! :)

 

 

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Dargo, do you have the ability to will yourself to dream about Ava Gardner?

 

I once had a dream about Sophia Loren. And it was a great dream, a marvelous dream that, of course, I'm too much of a gentleman to relate here. Anyway, after suddenly waking up in the middle of my Sophia glory, I then dropped off back to sleep again, thinking, "Dream about Sophia, dream about Sophia, . . . dream about Sophia . . . dream about Sophia,. . .dream . . . about . . ." Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

And then I dreamt about Curly Howard! Believe me, it wasn't as good a dream.

 

Even worse, a few nights later Sophia appeared in one of my dreams again but I somehow got her confused with Curly and threw a pie in her face. Since then Sophia has refused to appear in any of my dreams.

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About the star wars movies, in ROTJ we learn that not only Luke but Leia as well are both of them Darth Vader's kids...but didn't Lucas in actuality blow it with the first film by having Princess Leia in close physical proximity to Vader numerous times throughout starting with the rebel ship interception and continuing right up to the detention cell interrogation?...*should not Vader even then have sensed that Princess Leia was his daughter???* ]:) :^0 :^0...ps. and why even mention the initial event of an imperial assault team wiping out Vader's brother and wife who were Luke's foster parents. No doubt Luke's uncle was from his mother's side of the family. :^0

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> {quote:title=FlyBackTransformer wrote:}{quote}About the star wars movies, in ROTJ we learn that not only Luke but Leia as well are both of them Darth Vader's kids...but didn't Lucas in actuality blow it with the first film by having Princess Leia in close physical proximity to Vader numerous times throughout starting with the rebel ship interception and continuing right up to the detention cell interrogation?...*should not Vader even then have sensed that Princess Leia was his daughter???* ]:) :^0 :^0...ps. and why even mention the initial event of an imperial assault team wiping out Vader's brother and wife who were Luke's foster parents. No doubt Luke's uncle was from his mother's side of the family. :^0

I seem to remember something about Leia not being as strong? And I only saw the first two prequels and have been trying to forget them ever since. I get where Lucas was trying to go with them (the redemption of Darth Vader, blah blah blah) but he did a terrible job getting there. Not to mention that using "Hayden Christianson" and "actor" in the same sentence is ludicrous...he's pretty, but he's about a good an actor as Kristen Stewart.

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> {quote:title=traceyk65 wrote:}{quote}Not to mention that using "Hayden Christianson" and "actor" in the same sentence is ludicrous...he's pretty, but he's about a good an actor as Kristen Stewart.

::APPLAUSE:: Couldn't have said it better myself. There isn't enough time in the world to go over everything that is wrong with the prequels. Why must he retcon his own work?

 

Anyway, that was a hilarious video. :)

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>Even worse, a few nights later Sophia appeared in one of my dreams again but I somehow got her confused with Curly and threw a pie in her face. Since then Sophia has refused to appear in any of my dreams.

 

WOW! What a coincidence here, Tom! Believe it or NOT(though I would advise you to "not"), sometimes in MY dreams Ava will transform into one of the Three Stooges ALSO, but in MY case it's Larry Fine!

 

(...I'm thinkin' it's the hair!)

 

;)

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I'm taking the "it's only a dream" thing TOO seriously because I refuse to give stupidity a pass?

 

 

So be it.

 

 

OZ actually EXISTS? Where?

 

 

If Frank Morgan was Professor Marvel, travelling around Kansas, HOW could he also be a WIZARD in OZ? THAT'S wizardry! And the movie made clear, he wasn't REALLY a wizard.

 

 

Yes, the prequels to *Star Wars* exist, because you SAW them! THAT doesn't mean Tatooine( or however spelled) is an actual planet. In the original trilogy, it was suggested that all the characters had a history of sorts that brought them to where they were when the trilogy began( episode IV, I believe). The prequels were an attempt to tell that history. But it's not like Luke Skywalker woke up one morning and said, "MAN! I had the CRAZIEST DREAM! There was this VADER guy, and some cat called OBI WAN, and all kinds of crazy creatures all fighting some kind of rebellion..." and THEN going into the prequels.

 

 

Yes, and in the past, I had dreams of me and Annette Funicello, Lee Remick, and Candy Barr. THEY really existed, but the circumstances in the dreams never did. DANG!

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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>OZ actually EXISTS? Where?

 

Only in Dorothy's dream. She must dream a prequel in order for someone to film that prequel.

 

Do we have any evidence that Dorothy was knocked out in an earlier tornado? Does the prequel show Dorothy dreaming it?

 

No earlier dream = no prequel

 

:)

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Ok, it might be stupid for producers to claim they are making a prequel to the Wizard of OZ. My guess is that if these producers read your comments they would also say 'so be it'. i.e. they couldn't care less if there is a lack of logic to defend calling their movie a prequel.

 

This is similar to sequels where one or more characters somehow survive the ending of the prior movie. Producers are not going to care as long as they can market the movie. The fact a prequel of Oz is stupid doesn't impact the ability to market it as far as I can tell.

 

i.e. is anyone really going to say 'well I'm not going to see this movie since the Wiz of Oz was based on a dream and thus the events listed in the movie couldn't of existed'. Anyone that thinks that is dreaming!

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> {quote:title=Sepiatone wrote:}{quote}

> The only way there can be a "prequel" showing how the Wizard got to Oz would have to start out with Dorothy getting hit in the head again, and dreaming THAT series of events.

 

I believe that you are missing part of the magic of the movies. I believe it is best said in the exchange in: *Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2* (2011):

 

Harry Potter: Is this real? Or has it been happening inside my head?

 

Dumbledore: Of course it's happening inside your head, Harry. Why should that mean it's not real?

 

It is the nature of human psyche also that many dreams are repeated or that their location or people are repeated but the action or time is not the same.

 

It is a part also that a person may have a dream which is based on the setting or people in a dream of which they have heard. There is thought that this may happen because the subconscious mind of the person hearing the details of a friend's dream may find both a sense of excitement in it and a sense of safety in that the other person dreamt of it and survived.

 

The most plausible scenario in my opinion would be the wizard drinking more patent medicine than is good for him and dreaming of how he arrived in the place described by the girl.

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ARRRGHHH!

 

 

COULDN'T care less, James! They COULDN'T care less!

 

 

Darkblue, I Wikified *Return To Oz* , which seems to be based on two subsequent Oz book by Baum.

 

 

It sounds dumber than the new James Franco movie. And if Baum had no problem with suspending disbelief, or even intelligence in making a whole series of Oz stories, then who am I to complain?

 

 

So, I'll give it a rest.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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Of course Baum had "no problem with suspending disbelief, or even intelligence" for the same reason movie producers have no problem.

 

MARKETING. i.e. if one can leverage a popular book or movie for marketing purposes they will do so. I'm very surprised it took post after post to get this point across.

 

(and yes, Spielberg might be doing this with TGOW but I doubt it since my guess is most people under 50 or so haven't heard of the book or the movie, while OZ is iconic).

 

 

 

 

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Actually tracey, that IS the very thing that MAKES IT funny....that in this day and age there are STILL people, both men AND women, who think like that, AND who go to the polls in order to elect those very people to those governmental offices of which you speak.

 

So don't go solely blamin' the people who get elected, my dear.

 

(...and now after this slight "correction", I think we better move away from this tangent here) ;)

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> {quote:title=traceyk65 wrote:}{quote}

> You know that video is funny, but it would be funnier if there weren't a bunch of people in govt right now who believe it's true...not that OZ is anti-feminist, but that women need keepers. Yikes.

 

It is that very quality that it is so totally outrageous and is an exact parallel to presentations by people who believe outrageous things which makes it so very funny.

 

I have been told that I need not worry about some person wishing to be my keeper because any sane person would prefer to try to control a rabid llama.

 

Edited by: SansFin on Jul 10, 2013 5:33 PM because I did not check to see if I any words out.

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Somehow, I find it disconcerting that my arguement would be disputed by a quote from a HARRY POTTER movie!

 

 

With that quote, you suggest that all that delightful business that took place in a DREAM concerning me and CANDY BARR was REAL?

 

 

PLEASE don't tell my WIFE! :0

 

 

Dreams are fascinating to me, as there is no real way of discerning what they may actually represent. Many things in dreams, people, places, circumstances, etc., may all be representations of something, or someone else. Even the DREAMER has no way of knowing just what they ARE representing of.

 

 

Dreams, I was told by someone who's studied the phenomenon, are the brain's way of "cleaning house". No one can "program" what they'll dream. The brain will have you dream what IT wishes, and leave the meaning of it all in obscurity. This is why those who claim to be able to translate YOUR dream are all hoodwinkers. I myself have had dreams that seemed so real, it took me several moments upon waking to realize they WEREN'T. And also plenty of dreams that were so odd that I awoke GLAD that it wasn't real. Oft times outside influences can alter the dream you're already in the middle of( noises, heat, cold, etc) and send it off into another direction entirely.

 

 

THAT'S what was so fascinating about TWOO. Over the years, we picked up on the clues. Dorothy calling Miss Gulch a "wicked old witch" when the woman came to take Toto away, then appearing in her DREAM as a witch. And the farmhands all showing signs of the personalities of the scarecrow, tinman and lion later it that same dream. And of course, Professor Marvel showing up in the dream as the Wizard.

 

 

Movies? They can do what they want, I suppose. And the people who see these movies can choose to buy it if they wish. But that doesn't mean I have to.

 

 

On the idea of women needing "keepers". Well, I'd say that depends on the woman. When my Mother was a member of the Lincoln Park Senior Center, she was appalled by the number of recent widows who couldn't do some of the simplest things. I spent the first eight years of my life raised by this single mother, and saw nothing out of sorts in seeing my Mom wield a hammer or pair of pliers and fix things around the house. Not getting support or alimony( by choice, by the way), she couldn't afford to hire a "handyman" to do these things, and took it on herself.

 

 

So when she discovered many of these widows struggling to do some pretty basic maintainence, and probably because they married those old, chauvanistic men who probably patted them on the heads over the years and said, "You just cook and clean, sweetie. I'LL take care of the rest. Don't worry your pretty, little HEAD!", She decided to start some workshops. She had seminars of sorts showing these women how to unjam a warped door, change light switches and outlets, how to adjust toilet valves and work a plunger properly. Christ, she even had to show many of them how to write CHECKS! She even struck up deals with some local businesses to cater to senior widow's needs for more complex home and auto repairs and NOT gyp them. And some of these guys came in and showed them how to do other stuff, like diagnose car problems.

 

 

I asked her once why, seeing as to her being so handy and self reliant, did she remarry. "Was it for the money?" I asked.

 

 

"Oh, HELL no." she said. "George Never had any money. He was paying alimony and support from HIS first marriage. I never worried about money. Life's too short you know."

 

 

"Then, WHY did you get married again?"

 

 

"I thought he was GORGEOUS!"

 

 

Mom was a strong willed woman who didn't suffer fools and didn't take any crap. Which might explain the women I married. My first wife had these qualities, as does my wife now. And I'm thankful that both my daughters seemed to have inherited these same qualities.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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