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Bogart Vs. Cagney Vs. Robinson


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Tom, I'm still wih you on this- who needs Dargo ! LOL (dargo knows I love him, just teasing LOL). So smart of you to think of EGR, but you're probably right, age would have slowed him down and Jimmy's physical exuberance to deliver those clever lines in such an emphatic way was needed in One Two Three (you know what I mean). Yes, material is somewhat dated, but boy we could say that about soo many of the films we love. So we got finance on our side LOL. Good thing we ALL do LOVE James Cagney so much, regardless of the films.

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That's right, lavenderblue. So far it's 3 to 2 in favour of One, Two, Three. Yeah, we're still ahead!

 

But I'm still in shock that Dargo disagreed with me. My hair used to lie flat on my head. Now it's touching the ceiling. (I live in a very small house).

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That speculation I made about Edward G. Robinson in One, Two, Three prompts me to ask myself a question: namely what are the roles that any of these three great actors played that would have been uniquely ideal for one of them but not roles that the other two tough guys could have played.

 

Coming, rather easily to mind, of course, are any of the dancing roles that Cagney had. Cagney's man child appeal, including that rapport with the Dead End Kids, made him great in Angels with Dirty Faces while the other two would have bombed, I feel. Strawberry Blonde, perfect for Cagney, not the other two. Plus that sexy bouncing rapport with Ann Sheridan in Torrid Zone - forget the other two.

 

In fact, forget anything involving romance for Eddie Robinson. Casablanca great for Bogie. Robinson, forget it. Cagney? Maybe but it seems a stretch.

 

At the same time, Robinson was wonderful when he played roles requiring meekness (Woman in the Window, Scarlet Street, Our Vines Have Tender Grapes). The other two actors would have been laughable doing that.

 

I wonder if anyone else has any ideas along these lines.

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>EGR played meek and tough in the same film---THE WHOLE TOWN'S TALKING.

 

Not only that, but when he went to prison to kill the guy he didn't like, the tough EGR pretended to be the meek EGR pretending to be the tough EGR. :)

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And Robinson was wonderful in The Whole Town's Talking, too. The other two actors in the same dual roles? Bogart, not a chance. Cagney, I wonder. But, again, when it came to playing it meek, Robinson was terrific, showing his great versatility in this one film.

 

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hpylbIbX4rgEsx55dNT4nQcgd6XsJxjMwLsRlM8obTnPKn/AAmPS1Y60EHs6EEgMTrqDzoBCWlsobdsFXuMLYH45Yk3DB1LtB1PgTVDBEkNcugpczZerIgoinVPCAAPEuxpn4R0rkxclmPw6A6HaCKWen2Je3fViPjQESN4JnSY5LPkKA5e46j284Oa6kDKObSSpI7gxEQHOgHDsS7YhGksZkk69kgn23FKmG4yxvIAWDPmTfTUZgNv4lFOvRDGW7RuC5Csw7LH/Vl8NZoGPHWICsTCuOrY/wmSbLHugkqfCaXelV9jhMPdbV7TtYud8iYB8eyffxq1iOLj9uuTLWHi045FcpYMP5ZJnz76g6QYJ1tXVcaXEDTuDetQc4PdctBm82PdQK1rjFe1VtWBzFZQGGxCkEgGOXa0PZzb98EaeNQ32UFhD6DI7zEEctfkaRL2MvKbiE5cvajuPZEjzArGx99hJfW9DHxNveVoDnGuKW0UKc4LjfMYB1jzBiivDsVkwGHRkZ7nV5goBkAklZ7tCK5ze6y6is7djNknuyrpRrsPDE/w1rXXq7YJ5zkEdAi8Ww4k3yvaKLE/hbYmO8GaUroK8zNdD44yHNa1kag6QdZIB7x8m02NKGNwwPco7ufqeZ/XhQUbGIBgNIPf/zW19VIKe6NT3etVryVmFITQMvAD1C6nqoKHKHMZddfPTyqzh8CmBV7mTMFjtfidjy2i2vj86H9HsdF1wNimonnmEfX3qLpRjizC3Pwgkwdydp5GB86A10Oxgv3Xu4kOVMjNanNaAjKqKDOXtHQSdzyNNP8A1QdcLVnHXUBTMGvrCzMFCX5jvGk6Ug9GzFkxocxIOxGijQ8qJLxFw0Zp780PO/8AEDQMmM6Q4i2658VhnBaEgMRsDnOUgR2hr7UcX9uMQFedozGfEdvWudLcYdoPEnNGVIDcjGXffXxrGRtWm2TOv3e/LcMKB8s8TxFx3tL1LOnxBSfXd9atrfxFmyGudWFA3M/LNNc9t3mBJCWZIAlUyEAdxUgr6URt4jswbdkggyGDP5xmOnpQPlhcTcUMrWsrbEGZ/7/AMqH4vpDdssyC9bzKJKgaAc4mYj2pWOIJ3SyPJCB5gBhB8d63a4TsLQ2Ay2hOhkDUkHUnlzoG7DcRvXiq9bcuhpz5MwCDLOuUhI5ajvr59xVjLcZCYysQZ7wYOnptXYBcL/vHe4N8rMSm/8A7Y7A9q5NxdQL91QNrjj2c0FNwOVQPUwIFQE0GA07/Z/wF3XEYqRktq1uNyWdZ2nQDQz47aGkuxaLMqjdiAPM6Cuw4no9z2LNpTb7OVmVR942pYzBmSBrvAGukUFFMEpluZEbmI3HZo5Z6TNkW3e0A2flMR2vHxVQYewusROzeY769xGHBGwOn08aAxh4cyCNOY7vOi2E4yjq1vEoL1oGBmAJEg6g7jQHUVz428mqMbZ8Ggeoo7fx2REzkA5FZjtmzKrEgRzlRp/CdtqAX0v6G21IfCXiBJYBviQrqBI17oND8Rav2kZhea4wjRhlAY906ECdo8KbRhS/roTyAmXJPIcvCKF3LWe3dyfAAxzbZmE7BSYUZeYE0AnAcXvois4B2HeDB0EaTqII7q6JwHpZax1hsM6hbhUhDyZlEqB3GNI3376Q17aKwEiOQG/P4idZ/Ot8KrBluZZEwXXcPJCtI/ECQRyB8KDXi13q3yAxA1/XpWUM6RY0tiLjmO0ZgbCQDH51lBnFOGubt4hTDKAPFuxoKo3cA6pbBUyidrwjrF19adcWPhg/j3PmlBKsctwkjbXxln2/P3oEvBWWdbVthlD3tNY1cBUPlMH0rtlu0EWNgDp/Ly/KK5jw3Bh8XhLfMMrnwCKH/PLHrXRuIHUTQLXFsEGZiOZNKN4S86NT1irM0BxOCJaJjzoErE8OuLJgHyNDf2iJgH13psxa5QQBJ8DpStjx2jQbKGFk3ASCXyiNNAJP5/KtbLEqCdSQdT5mrVy4pwiAEEhtR3STVfDDsDyPzNAf4O0WRHMtPuP7VK9zWZ5z6fqaXRiXSMrEajy130Ne2uMO2hCnnzG1Ay2G0Omkf2H1msfF8u8wk/wBqCDpDChSp31131BjfwFbtxhRPZmJBPIk7eW00B228HerL4iFB8PrS7hOKsTMyPyqxiuktoNsY7tfOaA0uIkirdtiPcfmaWV6SJAuQ0TAHPT1qVmds6KrmNhoBvzMmgb8Jr6n6iuX8aJGIvEf4/p2jRDF9Mr7aIeqHX4v9W/tFAsQ7ZjrJOpMzJOu/frQaZT3Vd6O9G7OvrYw6ZnOpnRVUbszfhUTv6CSQKHFj30Y6LdKruAvG7aynMuVlaYZSQY0II2FB13gf2a4LAXALw/a76oXbP8Ad2lUfjRfxAEESxO2wkUE6WdNOvZSFCZTbyqpkATBHdzq9b4mMw37Rbu3bi5gTZZsy2HmSOqA1URpOmUjbYKePwwuPaVSiy7aKVOVVIZiQu0Dmf4WigdrdwQcvfB8xWl9CRqT7eFeYW8WRSRBYTHdOv1re8QBrFALv2vE/l/aqDYcq0oWBnfl37c6IXMSGnJLRzHw/6j9KqYftzJEwVGkeZ3O/hQTHpI6hbd5evB0ISFuADmRzXedj57UZ4OzXMptqG7lkdoAPrsOdKToFvZR/DmESCSDDaj0PrTLwLiBR1Odj8JksCJO411kfSgjwfBrls3FyXMk9mEJKGiwDEe1SYZ7ilwbVzISAWKNBIdWGh2PZjl47V0fEYUMgCkZWbQglSSRJ1Aq3w3BZWgqAsdkDYd/r40HBuMYYm6RGwHpI29BAryu9YrAWLjGbFtyNCWC0ka1lBwezhEvPd0JbrHiGI032nSl7jWAe2ZlijE5ZJkeHzpsayqElRBJ1PM1RxVjNvrQbfZlrfXSSouHNz2tqBPdqfeuh4xhmpG6O3qxFgKcoLOCAPiDJEHwkKfNadsTMnz9fagq4o6UF4oOyxAkgGNJ1jSiWLvgakxGtIXSfjYZ0Nq6cpX8JI1k7jv86Ce5ad8qpbbO8BVgSWPICelfGAhiCNRuPH0olwXF3jftXLTZ7qvKIczElYYEjSR4TEzpVpOG37gvXyltFtAvpYtgZg2i7ZgNG7RmMupoF7F4TqmVZ1ZQT4HmPcVLh8QAoBnbu8aYbeJs3bbNlR7mUkwtsG2q9kfEhzSdefZI2ND8Txjrb7PebKCoWVQOoZQFByvBywDoNRI3iKAdecGI5EH2qC3aIOkVexOKKnstaMiRATUe2h8GAPgarjjlwbEDyVR9KCneJnUaipbDdk6eZq1cw5udssSz6nbeNaks4EAEbkigpXPiApp6KYm0qP1mH66W0MpoABpDg8550qPbGaF9BGs02cOsdWigct/PnQMj8bwYU5uHToYhLDax3A0i8O6IYnE9u3bCWzszkIpHhzbzANHb9xmhVMMYAPidq0s8du2gEW63ZAXcxoI0oKdzoFcWZv2J7pu/PqqE43o1ftAsUzpzdCHUabnLqv8AUBTXglN93C55nQTETy3q7ihxCAw65YOmWRr5LQc0K6HSfH1qI70wdMOHvbvK11cj3EDMIA7QYqTC6CcoJ8SaAZaC9hcY9tWyOyTocrFZHcYOo8KtdHNcVYEnW4o9C0EexNDVblV3gbZcVYO8XUP/eKDrrKeRjxjX8/Ch3FbmTLz89TdE8QYJHfP/IoNx1MxtgTsfkaDR7pRg06HQ93gahuYcq5uJz3HIiPKo8LfDW4NR4S6VYo3mvlQVON4gDJcH4W1/lOjD/bXmC42bTzqbZMweUmdJ2Otbcbw0q0Dcaf/kCquCBZklAwOWTEjYazyoHfpnxW9bbBYrD32ylSCv4Q6wyk2zpJDEbfgopb0q42GfNbC3spKspOXMqM47J13Eb86WuliN/wBPt5CQeuUQPFHj8wKrYDEC20unWqzvaSDBzLKs5/i0ZdNPioO09GeLJi8NbvLAziWGV9mHuKyuPdGumz4ZXCIpVyGy6wGiCR56e1ZQRYm6Tsnuf7VUuE8gB5n1ExbZtI/OrCcL5kD3NAv4T99aYqJS4pB179fypj6RdJUsox1zfh7MifHUaVPYwSg7LZpS6YIGuW0kdq4ASTAgtEk8hQL/HOktzENzA0IXeGAg5SBIB7q04PwF7vabsWwSC7AlQwjstBzKDPxRpNGelnBlwGLVFCQgVgyN2jm5lmLZGGkGI8dqtYbj4diWc22ExcYCCrNJTEJs4OgzgePfQD8b0YGaLQZLkfuyc2ZSNHtOP3gmTEk8hNCL8SFxjFlMOwthGCsxDMCMzHPJUkDaQNvIsmJhVYMnZUgtZknRiB1mFuCTufh8vOqC9JrQzDEWEutkyLc2vr8WRtkqXAaCCusDbkCtZYI3M67qSJAPKfQgoi/FbbOQUbKWOU6Z8pMw5OjnX/AJoUzTWhoCtwW3IQSEz6FVzatAyy0NsrabE8hR630FtQM13WBInnGo08ZqFPYQYRHt2kTGCEEAnKEj72YyljsJkzM7UZwXSSy6q3VMy6B2Q4PMgBYiBvBFBunArQt9WrhRtJBJjzquOhaAErfjUGfamDFHBHKbL3lJ/BctllH/wCa2CB7N6UEu8ZWy5QvbuAb5HDf9wBUeRM0AO/wTJdGpERJABYd7QBR630TuFcyYpGkSBlJJ9Mk1RxnGrObMucL3FrZI79jqPCKE2OIot/rLNxxrKpBEMd41yjXvoGjh2Iw9lzZxTKLoOZbhWANBCk65SN52130pFxGKYHtqVPtPl3lN/Ecct/XEWVY/xKcjx84qSz0DR0DWMQ6q2uVlDLPiJg1AnriRIM9dK6FY7HXQAmGu3k2zFcqf8A7HgVvhuB3sPbzWsQtrKCWa3asJAGvxG0G93NMvR/p1iraiblvGINzmAugbzmt5lP9QHnQELX2c/tSzjrVqZMARcKrAgZ9IMztpVfF/YVw3KTN62SNsED0ZT7TTFi/tFw9uwLzhlBMANGukyrAlWHkeY76SuM/brbKstq3mkRIn5zFAj8Wye4lwnDOt3ro0Wrkfyscp85HlSuvDb2CvKb1p0IMrMQ3LRhKt6E0y2umqi7mu27iI2yWGRQf8xlTlI0jKJ31o8/SrhWIt5Lti5rrmZ87g7SGLAqfKB4UBPFurqtxdmCsvqJH5GqWKQMbZ/XjVXB4yAcPbvM9tFLW2dQrZRqyHkYBkHSQDppUvD8QGUkTCtz05A/WgBW2gsO4mt7qhhMaivWU57ngzf7jH0rwc9aCK5d0jeg2Et3FZSpIAOmo0HlRW6P1vKouFBcxBgnegcutDYZWcT1bC4e7sI7fMD3pcWwbdsFtDZw5ZpEHr8U2VR5i3lbg0Z4zdAwhXLmLXbIA2k5tV9RIqrf4xdLP2iQ164qg9oEWgGZu1IgA7x30BT7Luii4tb7NspQDzOYn6VlPf2ZYTLgg8QbrsxgAaA5BoNPwfnWUHIrX2gJEG0PTST7fWqVzpiy30Kki20Zwe1/NE7Ry8qWLmAuKzLkJYDMY7XZMEGV5ajWq/W/lQdduYju50jdNrstFFDcR6zDodSQMp/p0Ue9L/SO5nxCr/Eyj3IFBrc4JdewlwliX4WJJKfhAnuWNKr2uCXhYXEqpKMQQNQ8GBr8QMN3xlNFcF0kzl0Y/CWZT/AJZJynLwnuqDH4iYCPAzh8s9ktBAaORhjr40AvEXrxUDM0AGATGWdxvsf7UNewRuRRz/pdxx8Shmqp4I88yfQUAgoKvcH6P38UXGHtG4UGZgCJiY0BOvkKv4ThhtMtwpbuBCCUeSrDmDXSOB8SsOOswQWzcQS1oIisO8yB94N9fHlyDn2FzniTERhLqzzaEHuxFNfR/7FsUzB7t61bI3ALuw9QMvsTT5gOm6hc2IhYMTrBPhEkHfQj1ohb6fYEa9eAe4Kxn0y0Clcxkmfv0bvLC43RSoEeJao7f2JqpLXMTy0K24QHxAbsjxj1pnv/AGl2AYsWHuzzMICeFDEwqOz02xtxot4EAHmVuR/rYqtBzbpT0OxGFUrcXsNoLi6ofXl5GlazwNgwI0g98/SvoDCcTKE/tjYWxaYGbZuLqf5WYx5Clfj68JaWwzZbnLKHNpj3QFYD0gUCNgGXbkdkHx2HvTlwbAtZtlcp5gCB5A0Ls8UEDYRy/wCKs2Kid6DOLcBxF4H73OO6cv/AG/DSrieht1r2xHOAR7inS3xUd9W04vpvQc0Nm8PiYtHfJteM/eqHzWuiX76vqUVvMCqd3LrltqviFE0CDieFvdgqqqAIgac99q2s8AANvYf80y38G06A1V8Rh2RSzAhRuTt70EfD8PbtkMpII5zvaiPRLHC70x/GpiZHwkEjuBInwpO4hxyQVTQHc948O6oOB8afDXCyHfRgdQw7iOdA73B99dHc5/PWq7uA4E77VTsdJrTXGZxkzQdBInKAddx7Vde6rkMrAgcxFBVxi6/rnVXhbnr1HfRHFsIJ51RwLTd5frX60DVxB8gssSoyObna27s3GX1zR60LsIVTqypFwWbVlFI163FsblxvPJmXyajnEDmw6ANBulbO8aXHXMfjXkp3ka6xvXvR2yt3FYeBlRr97FEDRRbs/d2dIP4l3DEdqg6jh7i4a2lobKI8zzPqST615Sx0x4wLdxB3rNZQcH4bjybtggsMq5WG4iSTPUk6jzoXibbKxBGo7ttXhrV3htu0EDG6UuG4FPMLbjViu7EnuIAjXetbvV51/JUkhsqsCAH0ABEQQFI101nbULvRviGVXQyNQR66H6VWxmJnEFv4QT6gafnFTcPRDiCiXzkJKKX2Izwk6xAHanw0Fa8bwVq2oZLvWXLhaVGXsJMKGgmHMTHKCNdCQCW7pUztdDVSDFEACdqgIr0LpQWWxrd9bJxa4PxEetU68igJf9ec/EA3hsPYVta44yuHSUddVZdCPPA0KNYKDoA0Oy9oddhw92deSGBo3gfDWqZ6dwZt4fDJ3djMR6mk2vSKBxufaJizoL5Ud1tVX84mqeI6VXLn7y7dfa45HmYpaIrCKBgs8XUagR5AD5VYXjniaVhNeyaBsHFh3iprfERvP50mg15BoOgWKqNyvv/zVpekNtd3Ueo/vXNK9BoOlN0zsLP2BPyFVrv2i2x8Ksx9AK58RWtA54j7Rb34FVfPtfOgXEekV698csO7Ye1DwkqT3fK0uDX0HyFBsHr3rK0rygnW7W9nGMplWIPgYqsK9oDidJWIh9fEb1a4TiMPmGtBRUlptaDoNrpIeoRwT931rfigPkyJ8LAzmuaHlPOjnRviC2WxLTpbsrYT4e0UKNebsnU5mX/UZmKSOj9g3rZSQMjBjPNQcxEnsqDlGrAjSteMcaVb1tLBLW7YYFyI657hm9cy/wlvhB5ItA2/aTx8m9ZI52wfeK8pK6ScV65res5LYUfPzFe0AOtedZWUEuC/eL5j51Njt28/71lZQUjXvIn1rKyg1O1eV7WUHhrysrKD0Vsd69rKD0V41ZWUHi14aysoMWrWIE+QdZWUFRq9FZWUGVqaysoLNj92/p/uFRv8A2VeVlBrWVlZQbCsrKygypLG58qysoGDhH/0WN8rf9qjv7X/wD7Fn52qysoB/M+Q+VZWVlB/9k=!

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An older Eddie Robinson owned the role of Lancey Howard, the aging poker legend, in The Cincinnati Kid. I can't see either Cagney or Bogart pulling off the same performance. Cagney was usually high energy, not the right kind of actor trying a deadpan poker bluff and demonstrating nerves of steel by taking on a "cool" dude at a card table.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRER-xNyGBM_bCbZU7-Yo4

 

"I'm better than you, Lancey."

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvAvhVqq0dvngkDuKqsAY

 

"Prove it, Kid."

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I don't agree. Cagney besides being a song and dance man, he was better at romantic parts[love scenes] and a better action guy than the other 2. He also cried better and played famous people better[Cohan and Chaney]. I thik Cagney was more versatile.

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I would have to go with Cagney as probably being the most versatile of the three actors. When you consider his strong dramatic abilities, combined with his verve for comedy, as well as song-and-dance, he was quite a package as an entertainer.

 

As crazyblonde pointed out, EGR could not play the romantic, though, to be fair, Eddie came across, to me, as the most cerebral of the trio. Having said that, though, Cagney and Bogie still came across as having a lot of street smarts.

 

As I stated in an earlier posting, I think that of the three Bogart scored biggest as a mature man-of-the world and his cool cynicism helped to eventually give him the most iconic status of the three actors. I would suspect that as far as the general public is concerned, Bogart remains the most recognized name of the three actors.

 

But for versatility - give me Cagney.

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TomJH- In New York City, I think Cagney is more iconic. And now that many of Cagney's pre-code movies were released people are recognizing that Cagney had other hit movies and they are realising what a huge star he was back in the 30's. All three actors still standout and none of the actors today are in the same league as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

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Again, I agree with your take here Tom. Now what I'm about to say may sound like a knock on Cagney but that isn't my intent; Those early 30s Cagney performance are indeed something. Man that guy and those movies are full of life, BUT, there is also a camp vibe to many of them. i.e. everything is so over the top. Now that is what makes them so interesting but at the same time there is a lack of depth.

 

I know this is ground we have covered before, but few of those early Cagney movies are in the same class as say, High Sierra, as it relates to production values and scope. (until say Angel With Dirty Faces).

 

But yea, due to his dancing musical movies I agree Cagney was the most versatile than EGR and than Bogie. But for me Bogie is in more movies I view as first rate than the other two.

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I think it's safe to say that during the '30s Paul Muni enjoyed more prestige with the critics for his acting talent that did either Robinson or Cagney (or, of course, Bogie, who had yet to achieve stardom).

 

Today I think that it's equally safe to say that Muni's at times highly theatrical, busy performances date more (at least, in my eyes) than the more naturalistic acting styles of the other three actors. Truth is, at times, such as in Hudson's Bay (1940) or A Song to Remember (1945), Muni was a terrible ham.

 

However, having said that, I think that two of Muni's earliest talkie performances, with two very contrasting acting styles, hold up extraordinarily well, in Scarface and I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang. It's when he started his celebrated biographical series, with Pasteur and Zola, that he really started to chew scenery, as far as I'm concerned.

 

gangster-movies-scarface-1932-2.jpg

 

Howard Hawks' Scarface, far and away the best of the early talkie gangster epics, with a terrific broadstroke performance by Paul Muni. He is as much fun to watch in this film as he would later be such a pain in some of his later film performances. The film also helped to make a star of a coin flipping George Raft.

 

I now wonder if there's any poster that prefers Muni as a performer to our three tough guy stars.

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TomJH- What I like about the pre-code Cagney's was that they were short, fast-paced and fun. I don't tire of them. I like the action And Cagney was young and handsome in them. Not all movies have to have depth to be a good movie. The pe-code Cagneys did very well at the box office. I love many movies from the 30's, I find them so much more interesting than the movies of now. Many movies now I find boring and the actors are boring too. The old King Kong I found to be better and not as boring as the new one with all the special effects.

 

 

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Wow. It's truly interesting to see how much love for Cagney there is out there.

 

I have a few thoughts I wanted to post here, but first I'm going to confess that I need to catch up on this thread. I followed it very closely at first, but the last few days have not had a chance to read it. So I'm going to do something I usually don't, which is post here without having read the entire thread first.

 

Apologies in advance if I repeat what others have said, or otherwise expose the fact that I'm not up-to-date on this thread. (It's just that I've been meaning to post again here for a while, but it would take me so long to catch up on all the reading I need to do on this thread that by the time I was done I might not have the energy to write myself !) Of course I do intend to read the entire thread asap.

 

 

My general impression is that there is far more interest in James Cagney than in Humphrey Bogart or Edward G. Robinson. I wonder why ? As I said, much earlier on this thread, I like them all pretty equally, I think they're all three great, just different.

 

 

Something that surprises me is the lukewarm support for Bogart. Of these three actors, the only one a typical 20-year-old might have heard of is him. Humphrey Bogart's name is still recognized today, even by many young people. I don't believe this is the case with Cagney and Robinson.

 

 

Around the late 60's, early 70's - not sure when, exactly - Humphrey Bogart's movies started getting screened in repertory cinemas, especially in large cities and university towns. He - or his image, anyway- began to catch on with young people, who were discovering his famous work (such as *Casablanca* and *The Big Sleep*.) The tough guy persona, the trenchcoat and fedora, and even the "lisp" ( which is greatly exaggerated, I barely even notice any lisp) became more legendary than they were when Bogart was alive. Young film buffs would have fun imitating him- that's probably when the "Play it again Sam" thing really took off. Posters of Humphrey Bogart were suddenly available in funky little shops. His films were always on repertory cinema programs.

 

Jimmy Cagney and Edward G. Robinson did not enjoy nearly the fame and "re-birth" of their screen legends the way Bogart did. They were equally great actors, and made many movies that were as good as many of Bogart's. Yet it was only Humphrey Bogart whose name experienced this renaissance of interest in young film lovers.

 

I don't really know why this should be, what there was about Bogart specifically that struck such a chord with movie lovers in the 60s and 70s. But the Bogart legend continues to this day, in a way the other two great actors' legends have not.

 

This is partly why I am so surprised that, at least here on this TCM forum, Bogart seems to be the least popular of the three.

 

Edited by: misswonderly on Jul 23, 2013 11:42 PM

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*Howard Hawks' Scarface, far and away the best of the early talkie gangster epics, with a terrific broadstroke performance by Paul Muni. He is as much fun to watch in this film as he would later be such a pain in some of his later film performances. The film also helped to make a star of a coin flipping George Raft.*

 

*I now wonder if there's any poster that prefers Muni as a performer to our three tough guy stars.*

 

Overall I'd rate Muni way below Cagney, Bogart and Robinson. Muni's problem was that he was fixated on snaring those "prestige" movies, largely hagiographic portraits of "great" men, 99% of which are crashing bores when seen today.

 

OTOH as you say, before he got enmeshed in those stultifying biopics and stuck to films set in the present, he was in some very good movies. Scarface holds up very well; Bordertown isn't bad at all in spite of the stereotyping; a newsroom comedy he made with Glenda Farrell ( Hi, Nellie! ) is terrific; Black Fury has a powerful political message; and IMHO, I Am A Fugitive From a Chain Gang packs more real social drama in it than anything our "Big Three" ever played in, especially since it depicted the real story of an actual case. If he'd stuck to more movies like that and fewer hagiographies, he'd be a lot better remembered today.

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Andy, we're obviously in agreement that Muni's best work was his earlier work. The one Muni biography that I do enjoy, however, is Juarez. Not because of Muni - his (I hope I'm not too politically incorrect here) wooden Indian performance is perhaps the least intersting aspect of the film. But the film has a great supporting cast, with outstanding work, I feel, by Claude Rains as Napoleon III. Bette Davis, largely wasted in the film, as Empress Carlotta, still has a great scene in which her character goes mad. Interestingly, the film actually turns Juarez' political opponent, the appointed dictator Maximillian, into the flawed but noble hero of the production, in a quite sympathetic portrait of him. Finally, the film has a great musical score by Erich Wolfgang Korngold.

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I think all 3 men experienced a few rebirths through the years. I remember as a young kid living in Brooklyn[1970's], Cagney was the favorite among adults and kids in the neighborhood. His movies were always on the TV[more so than the other 2], and then the AFI Tribute in 1974.[That was a rebirth for Cagney]. Bogart and Robinson were loved too and very popular but not on the same scale as Cagney. Now I think it might have evened out a bit. Andy, good points about Paul Muni. I have a friend who loves John Garfield. Any thoughts on him?

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*MissW wrote:*

 

*Jimmy Cagney and Edward G. Robinson did not enjoy nearly the fame and "re-birth" of their screen legends the way Bogart did. They were equally great actors, and made many movies that were as good as many of Bogart's. Yet it was only Humphrey Bogart whose name experienced this renaissance of interest in young film lovers.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I don't really know why this should be, what there was about Bogart specifically that struck such a chord with movie lovers in the 60s and 70s. But the Bogart legend continues to this day, in a way the other two great actors' legends have not.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This is partly why I am so surprised that, at least here on this TCM forum, Bogart seems to be the least popular of the three.*

 

I'm not so certain that Bogart is the least popular of the three on this thread but, certainly, there seems to be more enthusiasm about Cagney, I feel, than the other two.

 

That resurgence in popularity that Bogart enjoyed with college kids in the '60s was shared by a few others at the time, as well, it seems to me, though they seem to have been comic icons instead - W. C. Fields, Mae West, the Marx Brothers (with their anarchy humour). I'm not certain that younger viewers today care much about Fields or West - I rather suspect that their resurgence is now past.

 

But not so much Bogart, though I don't know if his name has quite as much cache today as it did from the '60s through to, at least, the '90s or early part of this century. As for why Bogart had a popularity that eclipsed that of Robinson and Cagney, I guess it all comes down to his super cool image from the Casablanca-To Have and Have Not period of his '40s career.

 

That laid back acting style (which, in itself, was also associated with "coolness" as opposed to the high voltage acting that could distinguish Cagney much of the time), combined with his characters' world weary cynicism, which seemed to very much be a reflection of Bogie himself, had a lot to do with it, I think. Kids in the '60s were in revolt against a lot of the accepted norms of society, of course, and Bogart's leeriness of "this crazy mixed up world," to which Rick referred in Casablanca, made that character and the actor playing him seem like a kindred soul.

 

However, it's primarily that "cool" Bogart image that became popular, I believe. Those attempts to occasionally break away from that stereotypical mold, so important to Bogart the actor, in films like Caine Mutiny or Treasure of the Sierra Madre, didn't appear to get the same kind of celebration, it seems to me, from the later generation that rediscovered him and helped create a cult following. It was, above all, Rick in Casablanca who became the centrepiece of the Bogart cult's fascination with the actor (though, obviously, he played variations on that same character in other films, as well, and they, too, added to that legend).

 

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!

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*As they've often said, dying can be a great career move, and Bogart's untimely death contributed to the rebirth of interest in him*

 

Could be . . .

 

8431_Evening_at_ricks_sc3072.jpg

 

four-of-a-kind-marilyn-monroe-james-dean

 

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These four dead movie icons will always be teamed together as long as there are tacky looking portraits that can make a buck off them

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