mrroberts Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Cagney quote says a lot. In the late 30's Cagney was doing 2 or 3 pictures a year (always in the lead of course) while Bogart was doing mostly supporting roles and appearing in twice as many films as Cagney. And some of those roles Bogart was thrown into were very questionable casting decisions. Sometimes the studio execs didn't seem to be very bright. Bogart really paid his dues here. As Cagney said, they had the same attitude about work ethic. Its no surprise that they excelled at their craft. And if given the right opportunities , whether by smart casting or just dumb luck, they could give us a great movie to watch. I've been looking at the Bogart IMDb listings and there are a number of his early films I've never seen. One I really want to watch is *Two Against The World* which is a variation of the great Robinson film *Five Star Final* . Bogart has the lead in this "B" film with a low level supporting cast but it should be interesting viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Edward G. Robinson is terrific in Five Star Final. He very convincingly plays a hard boiled yellow journalism editor who gradually becomes sickened by his own trade. Robinson's performance compensates for some of the weaker acting to be found with some of the supporting cast members (ie Marian Marsh and, gad, Anthony Bushell as her boyfriend). It's still a hard hitting film. It's been too many years since I saw the Bogart remake (clearly made on a "B" budget, though a lot of Warners Bs can be quite entertaining). Memory tells me that it has little of the impact of the original. I love these kinds of behind the scenes shots. That's Robinson and Marian Marsh in Five Star Final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Wow, posted this in the wrong thread! Anyhow great stuff from Tom and Mrroberts. Very nice comments from Cagney. Of course he knew what it was like dealing with Jack Warner. Cagney gained the clout to push back but Bogie didn't until the 40s. But Bogie paying his dues in the 30s resulted in the many great performances he gave after he was a major star. Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Oct 23, 2013 2:46 PM Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Oct 23, 2013 2:48 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 One of those subtle Bogart moments that I love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimred99 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Cagney was a good cowboy in TRIBUTE TO A BAD MAN. And I guess I am one of a few who liked Oklahoma Kid and thought Cagney and Bogie were good in it. I just didn't like the hat they put on Cagney. A better cowboy hat should have been chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 ...and Boris Karloff, as the unscrupulous reporter, in one of the few non-horror roles in which we get to see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Right you are finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 My favorite Bogart moment has him talking about the missing Strawberries and finding the key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Hey, I just hit 3000 posts ! I'm catching up to Finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimred99 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I made a mistake. I meant RUN FOR COVER as the mov ie Cagney was a cowboy in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimred99 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 And what about Boris Karloff as the pimp in SMART MONEY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 It looks like Cagney was in 3 films that can be classified as Westerns, *The Oklahoma Kid* , *Tribute To A Bad Man* , and *Run For Cover* . As we look back over his long career he just seems out of place in a Western. That's not to say that he lacked the ability to play those parts. If he had made a serious commitment (like James Stewart) to play the cowboy for awhile in his career we might be thinking of Cagney in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkeee Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hi Jim I thought Cagney was very good in RUN FOR COVER and certainly believable as a Cowboy. Even his hat was suitable, as much as that of any Cowboy ! Twink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimred99 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Now that I think about it Twinkee, Cagney was great in RUN FOR COVER and TRIBUTE TO A BAD MAN. By the way RUN FOR COVER is on blu-ray and the color is beautiful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 The original casting of the lead for Tribute to A Bad Man had been Spencer Tracy. Accounts vary as to what happened. TCM has a writeup stating that Tracy had been primarily interested in working on the project because Grace Kelly was going to be on it. When Kelly backed out after reading the script, replaced by newcomer Irene Papas, Tracy apparently lost much of his interest in appearing in the film. He was late to the film set, which was on location in the Colorado Rockies, complained of the altitude, even asking for the set to be re-built at a lower altitude for his weak lungs. The official MGM press release in 1955 stated that Tracy left the project due to health reasons. In 1962 a Look magazine interview with former MGM employee Frank Merrick, however, stated that Tracy had been fired from the project. There are reports that the actor, in shock at the firing, was reduced to tears at the time, fearing that his career was over (which, of course, was far from the case). When James Cagney made reference in his autobiography to appearing in the film he held to the old MGM line that Tracy had been ill. Possibly he was being kind to an old friend by making that statement. Assuming that Tracy had, in fact, been fired from the film, I have to wonder if it impacted his friendship with Cagney to any degree when the latter stepped in as replacement (particularly if the reports of Tracy being so emotional that he cried over the firing are true). Somewhere (and I can't recall the source, unfortunately) I read that as the years passed the politically left leaning Tracy had also become a little disenchanted with Cagney's politics, which turned increasingly more conservative. Cagney, by the way, came onto the project too late to work with a recent co-star of Bogart's from The Caine Mutiny. Robert Francis was killed in a plane crash during production before Cagney came aboard. His scenes had to be scrapped, replaced by newcomer Don Dubbins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Right around this time period Tracy dropped out of *Mister Roberts* (he was going to play "Doc") , never exactly clear about why that happened. And if Tracy had a problem with high altitudes he made *The Mountain* with Robert Wagner in 1956, that certainly had some location filming. Something here doesn't add up. If Tracy had any hard feelings toward Cagney about being Tracy's replacement that would seem very childish (I have to believe that wasn't the case). Tracy certainly had some great film work yet to come, but his declining health (or his careless attitude towards taking care of himself) must have had some impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Tracy would have made a much better "Doc" than William Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Tracy couldn't even get a license to prescribe an aspirin yet alone take care of an entire ships crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyblonde7 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Tom, I remember reading that Tracey wanted Cagney to take his place in BADMAN because he wasn't well. The two men were close. I don't think the political views got in the way of their friendship. I never read that anywhere. I will look into it. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyblonde7 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I agree with you finance. I think Tracey would have made a better Doc too. And Tyrone Power would have made a better Mr. Roberts than Henry Fonda. Tyrone also played the part and was asked to play it in the film. I shouldn't say better. What I mean is I would rather see Tracey and Power than Powell and Fonda. I always liked their acting and their movies more so than the other two. To each their own. I know others here will disagree and that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 >Tom, I remember reading that Tracey wanted Cagney to take his place in BADMAN because he wasn't well. CB, I don't know your source for that statement but that is not my understanding of the situation, at all. Tracy was fired from Tribute to a Bad Man for his unprofessional behaviour (it's possible there were a few problems with his breathing at high altitudes but the illness story was put out by the studio at the time, it appears, to lessen the embarassment for the actor), and MGM turned to a other few actors (Gable and Gregory Peck, among them, I believe) before Cagney agreed to sign on to the project. Nor have I ever heard that Tyrone Power was ever offered the lead in the film version of Mister Roberts. I really have to question your memory on that one, unless you can provide a source. I wish I could remember my own source, though, in reference to my statement about Tracy being a bit disllusioned with Cagney's conservative politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJH Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 It's interesting that while Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney had only a professional relationship with one another, never socializing in their private lives, they both had a good mutual friend in Spencer Tracy. It was Tracy was had gotten Cagney interested in accepting the role of the Captain in Mister Roberts at a time when there was talk of Tracy playing "Doc" in the film, and Tracy was one of Bogie's final visitors, seeing him the day before his death. There were presumably other people that the two celebrated screen tough guys had in common as friends, but, off hand, Tracy is the only one that comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrroberts Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 We can always speculate about different actors being considered for roles in films, I'm sure a lot of names get thrown around as possibilities so its a question of how far into the casting process an actor's name gets brought along. Were there screen tests made, formal contracts drawn up, etc. We know there were times when a few scenes may have actually been shot and then something causes a change in plans and one guy's out and another's in. Hopefully the end result is still a good match of actors and roles. About Bogart and Cagney having common friends, considering that both had long service with Warner Bros they worked with a lot of the same people so I'm sure they had many common friends . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Is there any particular point of contention between Bogart and Cagney that one could point to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyblonde7 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Tom, I read about TRIBUTE TO A BADMAN in 2 or 3 Cagney books. All said he took the part as a favor to his friend Tracey who was too ill to do the part. And about Tyrone Power playing the part of Mr. Roberts. I think it was mentioned on the new dvd release of MR. ROBERTS. One of the specials mentioned that Tyrone Power was asked first to play the part because he also played the part in a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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