joefilmone Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I've been noticing a major difference between the classic film era and our current mulitiplex productions. In the old films supporting actors are an essential element to the sucess of the movie- even a major star Davis for example did not carry "Now Voyager" by herself she had Claude Rains to lend stellar support. In "The Women" even the smaller roles were brilliantly cast. And "All About Eve" is filled with wonderful bits like Monroe. In modern films the star name Depp, Pitt ect have to carry the movie- the supporting players are usually given nothing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Come to think of it, Joe, you're mostly right! Back in the day character actors were CLASSIFIED as such, and wore the designation as a badge of honor. It was somewhat comforting to the movie goer to see Charles Lane, or Percy Helton, or Al Jenkins show up in yet ANOTHER movie. Today, it seems those doing what once were "character" roles are otherwise major stars taking on a lesser role, probably as a favor, or they need the money, or to maintain exposure. Sepiatone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LsDoorMat Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Supporting actors are just CGI extras these days. You don't need supporting actors in films that are about people dressed in skin-tight leather doing slow-motion acrobatics while wielding an automatic weapon of some sort. For that matter you don't have any up and coming leading actors and actresses either. When they get too old to play the leads in sex farces or superhero/action films - cutoff is about age 30 - they are relegated to the dust bin. Edited by: calvinnme on Jul 14, 2013 12:22 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brackenhe Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I would consider folks like Jihn Goodman and Morgan Freeman supporting actors for the most part. Sam Jackson too. They've all had major roles in films, but I don't think most movies are marketed with them being the selling point. You're free to disagree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joefilmone Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 My point is that in the studio era - they had under contract stock players that would fill up the supporting roles to perfection. Now they have to spend so much money to hire an over price star who often fails to deliver an audience ( like Will Smith) that there is no budget left over to hire a good supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dargo2 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 My guesses as to why this seems to be are twofold here, Joe. First, the screenwriters of old are no longer or at least seldom around anymore who knew how to give great little dialogue to even the most minor characters involved with the plot. And secondly, the idea of watching "crusty old men" and "smart-mouthed old bitties" especially and who gave many of those old comedies those special little memorable moments has fallen out of favor in Hollywood's apparent attempt to cash in on the primary modern movie-going audience of today...the youth market. Nope, I have a feelin' most of that youth market just doesn't enjoy watching "those old people" on screen anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joefilmone Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 But even an action movie needs interesting characters- I just saw "World War Z" which is basically Brad Pitt vs the Zombies - but the supporting roles are all filled with non descript actors which have nothing to play. A good modern example of great supporting players is "Tootsie" im which almost everyone gets a leat one grear comic moment - it not just Dustin Hoffman in drag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkeee Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Yeah, just looking at those 'old' characters makes you laugh ! Each one of them is unique and has their own style as well as being predictable. I do not think the old classics would be the same without them ! Twink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogiboo Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 In more recent decades we had Ned Beatty, Jack Warden, James Whitmore and folks like that who may not have beenthe selling point of a movie but you sure knew you were going to get a performance worth your time. Those guys were always the supporting character actors, never the romantic or action lead. Morgan Freeman falls into that category, for me. I guess Robert Duvall would also be regarded as such. Gene Hackman doesn't act anymore and he never really had that leading man "look" so he kind of flowed into the character actor roles. BUt yeah, we don't have a Charles Lane, Beulah Bondi, Guy Kibbee or even a John Fiedler/Elisha Cook, Jr to play the mousy little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heuriger Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 On the other hand, no one could play the role of the mousy little guy quite like *Hervé Villechaize. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfpcc1 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Steve Buscemi has done a really good mousey little guy for a long time, (but now he's on an HBO show.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansFin Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I believe that movies in which story is more important than explosions still have many good supporting roles. A prime example of this is the Harry Potter series. The number of speaking roles is quite high and even the janitor gets into the act. Pirates of the Caribbean is a series with many supporting roles also. Depp is surrounded with a wide cast each adding their personal marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceyk65 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 > {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}I believe that movies in which story is more important than explosions still have many good supporting roles. A prime example of this is the Harry Potter series. The number of speaking roles is quite high and even the janitor gets into the act. > > Pirates of the Caribbean is a series with many supporting roles also. Depp is surrounded with a wide cast each adding their personal marks. I was just thinking of both those films! Great minds? LOL The films of the Coen Brothers also seem to have interesting supporting casts. For example, RAISING ARIZONA stars Nicolas Cage and Holly Hunter, but has pretty great supporting roles for John Goodman, William Forsythe and Francis McDormand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansFin Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 > {quote:title=traceyk65 wrote:}{quote} > The films of the Coen Brothers also seem to have interesting supporting casts. I thought of the Coen Brothers but I did not know how to spell their last name and my searches for Cohn and Cohan revealed nothing related to movies except George M. I drew a complete mental blank as to the names of their movies. The movies of George Roy Hill had large casts but he seems of an era past and perhaps not relevant to the spirit of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrence1 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I agree with all that has been said in this thread. How I miss thses wonderful old character actors. I always pay attention to the credits at the beginning of the movies on TCM, looking for these familiar names. . As an example, whenever I see Kathleen Freeman's name in the credits, I'm always anticipating the first scene I see her in. And that list of actors goes on and on. We just don't have this anymore. Terrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxreyman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I think you are correct when you point out the major differences of today's films compared to the Golden Age of Hollywood. The problem with today's films is the fact that everyone is a freelancer now. Back in the studio system, when everyone was under contract, you went where they told you and if you got the part, then everything was okay. Today it sure does not work that way. I have the DVD of Kevin Costner's Open Range. On the DVD there are behind the scenes videos of the making of the movie. One of the videos has a section where Costner is shown working with his casting director on the selection of supporting actors. Fairly fascinating to watch starting at about the 1:53 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCzS654xCrM I disagree with one thing you said about today's stars having to carry the film. In many ways films of today do have strong supporting characters. Films like Lincoln, and Zero Dark Thirty, Django Unchained, Les Mis?rables, Argo, Silver Linings Playbook, and Skyfall all required heavy usage of supporting actors to make the films work. In these films, the main character either was not strong enough to carry the film themselves, or the films were written with allowances for a great deal of input from supporting character actors. That is not to say that every film made today does not feature great supporting actors in far more substantial roles. But there are many films that have one or two grade A actors with a good amount of supporting actors around them. I give as an example the film I wrote about earlier, Open Range. Here you had Robert Duvall, Kevin Costner and Annette Bening in the major roles with a very good supporting cast around them: Michael Gambon, Michael Jeter, Diego Luna, James Russo, Abraham Benrubi, Dean McDermott, Herb Kohler, Peter MacNeill, and Cliff Saunders All of these folks had some pretty good scenes, although they were clearly supporting the main cast. As far as character actors working today, I have compiled a list (yes, I know, another list?). This list is of male actors only, but it involves quite a few actors, some of whom have exceeded their supporting acting style and have ventured into the lead acting category in some films..... Morgan Freeman Bruce Greenwood Steven Culp Karl Urban Paul Giamatti John C Reilly Benicio Del Torro Brian Dennehy David Strathairn Michael Madsen Danny DeVito James Russo Gary Oldman Joaquin Phoenix William H. Macy Christopher Walken Ian Holm Brian Cox William Fichtner Djimon Hounsou Steve Buscemi Terence Stamp Sam Rockwell Harvey Keitel Will Patton James Cromwell Dean McDermott Alan Rickman Charles S. Dutton Giovanni Ribisi Oliver Platt Barry Pepper Kevin Pollack F. Murray Abraham Clifton Collins, Jr. Tom Wilkinson J.K. Simmons Jay O. Sanders Chris Cooper Willem Dafoe Martin Landau David Paymer Danny Aiello Kevin Dunn David Morse Ian McKellen Michael Shannon Christopher Plummer Eli Wallach Ned Beatty Stephen Root Raymond J. Berry Mark Margolis Philip Casnoff Keith David Chi McBride Daniel Roebuck Stephen Tobolowsky Gregg Henry Clancy Brown Danny Trejo Philip Baker Hall Dylan Baker Ron Pearlman Alfred Molina Richard Riehle Dean Norris Victor Garber Peter Dinklage Kurt Fuller Kurtwood Smith Ray Wise Peter Stormare Stellan Skarsg?rd Henry Czerny Dennis Haysbert Donal Logue John Goodman Mark Strong William Hurt John Turturro Bryan Cranston Brendan Gleeson Phillip Seymour Hoffman Christoph Waltz Jeffrey Wright Mads Mikkelsen Michael Stuhlbarg John Hawkes Stanley Tucci Richard Jenkins Greg Kinnear Jake Gyllenhaal James Franco Ewan McGregor Matt Damon Delroy Lindo Ray Winstone William Sanderson John Malkovich Sam Elliot Brad Dourif Joe Pesci Michael Caine Don Cheadle William Sadler William Forsythe William Atherton Tim Curry Alan Alda Jeremy Davies Colm Feore Brian Cox James Rebhorn Donald Moffat Fritz Weaver Michael Ironside Clint Howard Bob Gunton Anthony Zerbe Bruce McGill Christopher McDonald Harris Yulin Luis Guzman Kevin Tighe Mike Starr Michael Lerner James Tolkan Dan Hedaya Michael Rooker Saul Rubinek Fred Ward Edward Hermann Peter Jason Colm Meaney Tommy Lee Jones Charles Martin Smith Andy Garcia Bill Pullman Jeff Fahey Steve Zahn Dabney Coleman Hugh Grant Aidan Quinn Henry Thomas Frank Langella Len Cariou Dermot Mulroney Ed Harris Paul Guilfoyle Jason Lee Billy Crudup Josh Brolin Ted Levine Cuba Gooding, Jr. Alec Baldwin Jude Law Mark Walhberg Scott Glenn Albert Finney Danny Huston Bill Nighy Matt Dillon Terrance Howard Aaron Eckhart Jeroen Krabbe Joe Pantoliano Pierce Brosnan Timothy Hutton Robert Pugh Jeff Daniels Jeffrey DeMunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Yeah, I miss Kathleen, Terrence. She was GREAT! Come to think of it, there ARE a few well regarded "character actors" in movies today. Maybe getting long in the tooth, but still brightened up just about any movie they appeared in. Steve Buscemi is one of those guys. Another two who wind up in several films in small but pivotal roles are RICHARD JENKINS and JOSEF SOMMER. Most of the rest have names that many have yet to commit to memory. And as one earlier stated, nobody CARES anymore. Sepiatone Edited by: Sepiatone on Jul 15, 2013 12:02 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxreyman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Well, I hate to disagree, but I care and so do a lot of other fans of today's films. I think the people who do not care are people who write here on the forums who are specifically Old Hollywood fans. To them nothing after 1960 means anything to them. And that is alright. Heck, I'm not a fan at all of the silent era. So there. Some recent movies like Lincoln, Les Miserables, True Grit, even Star Trek are films to look forward to. They all have very strong supporting casts and that helps tell the story of the movie better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceyk65 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 > {quote:title=fxreyman wrote:}{quote}Well, I hate to disagree, but I care and so do a lot of other fans of today's films. I think the people who do not care are people who write here on the forums who are specifically Old Hollywood fans. > > To them nothing after 1960 means anything to them. And that is alright. Heck, I'm not a fan at all of the silent era. So there. > > Some recent movies like Lincoln, Les Miserables, True Grit, even Star Trek are films to look forward to. They all have very strong supporting casts and that helps tell the story of the movie better. I think the point of this thread was that you don;t get those groups of supporting players that you could recognize, in every movie every time, even if you didn't know their names. They generally specialized in a certain "type" of character--the gruff dad/older man with heart of gold (ala Eugene Pallette or Charles Coburn), wise-cracking sidekick/best friend (ala Eve Arden or Thelma Ritter) the other man/woman who loses (ala Gail Patrick or Ralph Bellamy) the crazy/eccentric of indeterminate nationality (Mischa Auer or Sam Jaffe) etc etc. That was just part of the reality of the studio system--each studio had a staff of players of various types they could pull from (listen to me, going on like you all don;t know this. LOL) and you could expect to see certain people depending on which studio made the film. That's been lost today, as someone said, because most actors are free lance. The only time you see the kind of consistency you used to get is when a director puts together an informal "company." For example, in a Coen Bros film, you can reasonably expect to see Frances McDormand, John Goodman, Steve Buscemi and John Turturro, among others. They also have a team of creative and support people they tend to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzcutter Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I think a number of really great character actors like Jim Beaver (*Deadwood*, *Justified*), Terry O'Quinn, Powers Booth, the always magnificent Margo Martindale, Walton Goggins, Ian MacShane, Gabriel Byrne, etc are working more in television (network, cable and prem. cable) than movies these days. Jim Beaver and Margo Martindale are, by far, two of the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfpcc1 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Francis McDormand is married to one of the Coen brothers, (I'm not sure which one?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I didn't respond to this thread because, to me, the answer to the question was related to the studio era system. Duh. All I can add is that sometimes the fact the same character actors were used in movie after movie added to the 'just a programmer' vibe of many of the 30s movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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