prizzlesprung Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Greetings All: The undersigned has recently discovered the TCM Frances Dee Forum. It is pleasing to note that folks who share my curiosity about the old actress know so much about her and her life. I hope to pick the brains of Deborah and the others from time to time. A TV show about the famous home of William Randolph Hearst (spelled "San Simone"?) included a quote from Joel McCrea about the tennis playing of the famous newspaper tycoon. That lead me to shoot an E Mail to California to ask about FD visiting the mansion. The reply I received was polite but contained little information. Recall that Hearst liked to give dress up parties. The reply did tell me that FD attended a Civil War party there in 1934. Any comment about the William Randolph Hearst part of the life of FD and family would be welcome. Cordially, prizzlesprung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Hello Prizzlesprung, I don't know anything much about Joel McCrea and Frances Dee, i'm sorry to say, except they had a couple of large ranches in California. I have seen their son Jody at Zuma beach on occaison in the 50's and 60's and spoke to him sporadically twice. Very large and good looking boy - but then with parents like those who could miss on the beautiful genes????? I did know W.R. Hearst, also sporadically and in passing, as I was a child and he didn't really have time for children. That was in the late 40's / early 50's. My grandmother, Nell, was a very good friend of WR and his wife, Millicent and an even better friend of Marion Davies and her sister, Rose Douras. Whereas WR liked Nell, he really had no time for Rose, who was a rather crude woman (drunk!).... I had never been to San Simeon, until the late 60's when I went there as a tourist. But, I did come close about 1949/50, when I asked Mr. Hearst if he had any new purchases for the "Ranch" and he said that he would take me there and show me as soon as they were unpacked. Apart from "Good morning, Mr. Hearst and Good evening, Mr. Hearst" and the usual, "Hi there young man" and "Hello my boy", that was about the most conversation I ever got out of him. None of those purchases was ever unpacked, I don't think because he died about 9 or 10 months later and never did take me to San Simeon. Oh yes, I told him I wanted to swimm in the Neptune Pool and he agreed that was "a good plan!" - "We'll plan on it!"... Never happened and I don't think they let the tourists swim in it today, so there's another wish not granted.... Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deborahwakid11 Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Hello, Prizzlesprung and Larry: I haven't posted her lately because I have been having some troubles with the boards. Hopefully, this will go through. Like I said, Larry, I went over to Newberry Library (research library) in Chicago and tried to find things out not only about Frances and Joel, but also about Ann Miller (aka Johnnie Miller) and Joan Crawford. I wanted to see if I could find any trace of either of them in any of the Censuses as children or even find a birth record. Unfortunately, Texas did not keep as excellent birth records as California did. So, so far, nothing on either of them. I was using their real birth names, too. Well, next time I go back there, I will look again. I have access to this one database, but only for historical newspapers. I type in a name and it comes up with approximate searches. There are tons of newspapers with old columns of Jimmy Fiddler, Louella, and others. I found out a lot of interesting stuff about the McCreas, especially in Ventura County newspapers. Like I said, I will keep trying to see if I can come up with anything. I'm as curious as you are about the "real ages." I can tell you one thing with absolute certainty, too, and that has to do with what the age of majority was at certain times in certain states. I told you before, based on the studying I did for this one school project, that the age of majority in Illinois was, without a doubt, 21 years old throughout the 1920's. Well, Larry, I've confirmed the same thing for California. This happened by mistake, in fact, reading some stuff up on Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Seems when he and Joan got married in 1929, he was only 19 years old. I don't know how old Joan was, but she over 21 years. Anyway, both of his parents (father and both mothers) detested Joan Crawford. They did not like her at all. He needed their permission before he got married. The way Doug got around this was by claiming on the marriage license he was 21 years old, not 19 years old. This explains why, at times, there was a 1907 birth year for Doug. If this were true for Douglas in 1929, it had to be true for Frances in 1929 as well. Frances, whose birthday was November 26, was a couple of weeks older than Doug. The studio, to be on the safe side, added on two years to her birth date; so, they would not be bothered with either pesky authorities or pesky parents (even though they had given her permission to try acting for a year). Of course, Larry, the same might not have been true in the 1930's. With the Depression and everything, they might have changed the laws. I think in the case with Frances as well, the "Tribune" writing an aricle about her and mentioning her age maybe had something with the studio doing it as well. I never could figure out why "Chicago Tribune" had her age right when other papers didn't. I had forgotten she had worked there for awile. Prizzlesprung, as to your question about San Simeon, I know Joel visited there quite a lot when he was single. I'm sure Frances did as well. All of the big celebrities did. However, usually small groups were asked up at a single time. There were not too many really large parties, given as huge as San Simeon was," it still had limited space. I know Hearst like Joel a lot. He referred to Joel as "The All American Boy." He talked to LB Mayer about giving Joel a contract at MGM, but Joel decided to go to RKO. He liked Joel for two reasons. Number one, Joel had no interest in Marion Davies whatsoever, except as a good friend; so, Hearst had no reason to be jealous of Joel. Number two, Joel never drank or smoked, which rose him a few notches in the eyes of Mr. Hearst. Mr. Hearst especially detested drinking. As I said, I'm sure that both Frances and Joel went up to San Simeon at various times, although not always together. They also probably visited Beach House in Santa Monica as well. That said, I can really only tell you of time for sure they were at San Simeon together. That was at one of the last big costume parties up there, in 1938. Frances and Joel came as cowboy and cowgirl. I read this in one of Ken Murray's many books on the subject. I noticed on Amazon.com that there was an outprint oral history of San Simeon featuring Joel. When it gets close to my birthday, I might try to find it. As far as genes go, since both parents were so gorgoeus, the grandparents had to be gorgeous as well. In one of my magazines, I've seen pictures of Joel's parents, brother, and sister at an outing at the beach. They were quite good-looking handsome people. I have only seen one picture of Henrietta (as an older lady) and none of the father. However, considering how gorgeous their two daughters, Margaret (who had a bit role in "Becky Sharp") and Frances were, I'm guessing that their parents must have even been more gorgeous. Take care. I'll continue the Frances discussion about the "Tribune" and whatnot on the other thread. Deborah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Hi Deborah, I wish these people would light on a year and stick with it. First, they add years to themselves when they're young and then subtract twice as many when they're older. Very confusing. Also, Marion Davies' beach home in Santa Monica was called 'Ocean House' not 'Beach House' although she herself always referred to it as her beach house -- "Come out to the beach house for tea"; or "See you at the beach house at 7"..... Regards, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deborahwakid11 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Hi, Larry: Thanks for correcting me about Marion Davies home. I really could not remember the name of it and did not have the "Architectural Digest with it; so, I just referred to it as a Beach House. I knew that wasn't quite right, but I figured you would tell me. That is so neat that you knew so many of those celebrities. From the way you describe them, a lot of them seem more ordinary than one would imagine. I especially enjoyed your stories on Pola Negri. I remember "Moon Spinners" from when I was a young girl and saw it in theaters. Too bad about her eyesight problems. As far as the playing around with the ages, I agree with you that they should just pick one age and stick with it. However, I'm not so sure that all of that is the actresses' ideas, at least maybe at the beginning. Oh, I'm sure for some of them it was. Joan Crawford claimed she lost her birth certificate, but somehow I find that hard to believe. Even her husbands did not know how old she really was. As for Lana Turner and Frances Dee, it was probably studio's idea. In the case of Frances, I think what happened was that when she signed in 1930, they perhaps asked her what year she was born, not taking into account the month. I'm guessing that "Tribune" article through them for a loop, talking about her being 20. They probably looked at contract and saw November birthday. Firguring it was only five months until November, they did the easiest thing and penciled in 1907. The funny thing is I don't think I ever, ever remember reading anywhere where either Joel or Frances talked about their age. This age game seems to have been played more by female stars than male stars, although I'm sure they did as well. I can't remember her name, but there was one classic actress who gave three different birth years. After she died, her son was going through her papers and found her real birth year, which was none of the other three, and made her older than the other three. Speaking of playing with ages, I found one thing that you might find amusing regarding age. It also concerns Frances Dee and a guy selling a picture of her from the flick she made with Duke Wayne. In it, he has her birth year as 1918. That would have made her 12 when she made "Playboy of Paris" in 1930, as well as 15 when she got married. Of course, she would have graduated from Hyde Park High School at age nine. It makes me wonder if these writers ever check anything out before they write something. I doubt it was a typo, either. If I find out anything more on Ann Miller, I will let you know. Take care. Deborah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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