GENE KELLY

[gypsybangles]

Just so there's no misunderstanding, allow me to preface my remarks by saying I consider Gene Kelly to be one of the absolute best dancers ever. The fluidity with which he uses his body is pure poetry, his interpretation of theme is honestly and inventively demonstrated, and his love of expression using his body as instrument is a joy to watch.

 

Having said that, I would also say that his wardrobe was so annoying that for me it actually detracted from his dancing.

 

His too tight shirts, his too short pants, his white socks, and his loafers just make me want to grit my teeth. Maybe he was trying to play against Fred Astaire's image of tails and tux, but I think he went too far in the other direction.

 

I'm aware it might be considered nitpicking at a beloved stars image, and to reiterate, it's not his talent I'm talking about here, but something which was distractive of that talent.

 

I welcome your thoughts.

 

[bhryun]

I agree with you on his dancing. You didn't mention his singing. Good at that also. As for his clothes you must remember the year. Singing in the rain was one of his better movies. In those days the studio made all, and I mean all the decisions as to plot, costumes, music and anything else you might think of. So give the guy a break on his wardrobe, o.k.

[therealfuster]

you are dead on!

 

Kelly was gorgeous, but he was not a vision of sartorial splendor. That was the province of Adolph Menjou, who though not the best looking, was known in Hollywood for being natty on screen and off.

 

Though Kelly's wardrobe might have been chosen by him, specifically to illustrate his average Joe persona in films, with an athletic bent, what with all those loafers, and typical Americana type outfits, I can see exactly what you are saying, when I think about his clothing.

 

Astaire was just more of a clothes horse, what with doing outre things like making his socks match his handkerchief, and using a scarf as a belt. The man was so casually elegant, that he makes George Hamilton look like a slouch in his custom tailored jeans which are pressed.

 

I think you make an interesting point, but for really poor tailoring, look for Bing Crosby's wardrobe choices!

 

Not to compare him to Kelly as an exponent of bad couture, because Kelly is splendid comparitively.

 

Fun topic...whose clothes in films, do you think are wonderful? Males and females?

 

I'll go with Fernando Lamas as a splendid specimen clotheswise and Lynn Bari as model perfect!

[brackenhe]

I think because Kelly was on top of him game post WW 2 that the times were more casual, or as fuster said, he was portrayed as the Average Joe. Most of Astaire movies made at his peak was during the 30's when the times were more elegant and I think (my opinion only) that the Depression/Post Depression audiences really ate up that "how the other half lives" stuff. Plus, Astaire did more of couples dancing whereas Kelly danced along side others but rarely had ballroom dancing scenes. It was more of a jazz/tap/ballet type dancing. All of this is just my opinion though. Also, after the was, Astaire was wearing a little less formal clothing too. More costumes or suit and tie rather than tux and tails.

[gypsybangles]

I totally understand what you're all trying to say, and I agree the times were more casual, but there is such a thing as casual elegance. His attire didn't come close. Instead it screamed "refugee from a bowling alley" in movie after movie (I'm sure I'll take some hits for that remark). I also think he was trying to play much younger than he was, and frankly although he was obviously athletic and in great shape he looked his age (just shy of 40, but portraying 20 something in 'An American in Paris'). I really think if he had chosen clothing more appropriate to his actual age, given the fact that he was so athletic, he would have appeared younger. But when he stuffed himself into a teenager's attire, he looked the forty year old he was, and unfortunately a little ridiculous.

[therealfuster]

brackenhe

Posts: 728

Registered: Dec, 2003

 

Re: GENE KELLY Posted: May 26,2005 8:05 PM

Reply

I think because Kelly was on top of him game post WW 2 that the times were more casual, or as fuster said, he was portrayed as the Average Joe. Most of Astaire movies made at his peak was during the 30's when the times were more elegant and I think (my opinion only) that the Depression/Post Depression audiences really ate up that "how the other half lives" stuff. Plus, Astaire did more of couples dancing whereas Kelly danced along side others but rarely had ballroom dancing scenes. It was more of a jazz/tap/ballet type dancing. All of this is just my opinion though. Also, after the was, Astaire was wearing a little less formal clothing too. More costumes or suit and tie rather than tux and tails.

[therealfuster]

just took control off my keyboard!

 

As I was trying to say, Brackenhe, that's a really interesting point you make about the Depression era audiences eating up how the other half lives.

 

One would have thought, that people with limited means would have resented such opulence on film, but I agree with you that it seemed to become a type of vicarious pleasure for the masses, affected by the stock market crash and down and out. The movies with the all white Deco decor were there to make them forget their troubles for awhile and get happy.

 

Also...many of the screwball type comedies, did make fun of those with largesse and living in mansions on Park Avenue, in whimsical ways...and this made such subject matter perhaps more appealing.

 

As you say, Gene was more a meat and potatoes kind of guy onscreen, whereas Fred seemed more into caviar.

 

Both were magnificent though...in their differing styles on film.

[ayresorchids]

As a big fan of Astaire and Kelly, I am constantly fighting this notion of Astaire as a toff.

 

Sure, he looked better and more comfortable in tails than any man who ever lived, and it's true that some of the Astaire-Rogers films were set in a wealthy fantasy land. But in Flying Down to Rio, Roberta, Swing Time, Follow the Fleet, and part of The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle (that is HALF the Astaire-Rogers series, right there), Astaire plays a struggling musician or performer or a middle class guy. And even when he was in some elegant setting, sporting elegant attire, he played a brash, youthful guy with a mischievous sense of humor--never a snob.

 

I tend not to compare Kelly and Astaire (don't see the need for it), but I will admit that I prefer Astaire's figure, his sharp but casual clothes, and a modest quality to his persona that Gene doesn't often display.

[fssbdgtsue59]

I heard someone-Jason Alexander comment on a TCM moment that Gene Kelly was using his attire to show that he had musculature that went on forever-and it did. He could dance to almost anything-always staying in synch with the music and the beat. You are all right that his clothes were not suitable for his age but he sur got away with a lot of good dancing and prancing in those clothes! It depresses me that I cannot do what he did with such ease.

[shainablue1]

I think the clothes probably served some sort of purpose for Gene. I remember once on a documentary about Michael Jackson ( of all people!) them saying he wore the white socks and loafers to attract the audiences attention to his feet while he danced, the glove brought the eye to his hands. I wonder if he didn't rip it off from Gene Kelley? Maybe the clothes were a special material to be more comfortable to dance in? He had an awesome physique-would we know it if it was covered up in a "monkey suit" ( tailcoat )? I dunno. Fred Asatire is my favorite, but I like Gene Kelley and I always noted he was really casual - that was a funny comment " refugee from a bowling alley" The mystery continues tough as to why he dressed that way, just my thoughts...

[bhryun]

When I think of Gene Kelly I always think of Brigadoon and An American in Paris.Although he was known for his dancing there was something about his voice that always brought me back to his next movie.

[Jamie]

It's so funny I was this post because just the other dayI was saying to myself watching him in American in Paris and Zeigfeld Follies how much"I love watching that man dance." And--phew!!--he was at the top of his talent in that time! Me-ooww!

[therealfuster]

Fred is no toff!

 

I had to laugh when I read your post, since I had a British friend who often used the sobriquet, "toffee nosed" to denigrate haughty folk. I just looked up "toff" and now I find a bit of a different take on the word with this bit about Oxford and Cambridge, the schools of the Monty Python grads, as it says:

 

"toff ?? (?P?)??Pronunciation Key??(tf)

n. Chiefly British Slang

 

A member of the upper classes, especially one who is elegantly dressed: ?champagne, once a raffish drink suitable for toffs and weddings? (Ian Jack).

 

[Probably variant of tuft, a gold tassel worn by titled students at Oxford and Cambridge.]

 

toff

 

n : an elegantly dressed man (often with affected manners) [syn: nob]"

 

Obviously you are right on when you say Fred's persona in films is NOT a toff!

 

I always thought Fred was incredibly down to earth, and the term you used..."brash" is quite apropos.

 

I only think that he is more the sartorial giant to Kelly in his attire. Fred just can't help it...he looks elegant in anything, and the way he can casually walk with his hands in his suit pockets, is a quality not even Don Johnson on "Miami Vice" could achieve.

 

As you say, Fred is often struggling, to get the girl or whatever, in films and is definitely no "toff" or snob, no matter if he is wearing tails, and top hat or an ascot.

 

 

 

 

[ayresorchids]

Thanks, fust.

 

I worry at times that people not yet familiar with Astaire will assume that he is Clifton Webbish. Not that I dislike Clifton Webb--but a superciliousness of style similar to his probably would be too much to take, on top of Astaire's extreme competence and talent. In fact, I recall that Steve Harvey makes a similar point in his excellent book about Astaire: that if Fred had been conventionally good-looking, it may have been too much!

 

For me, Astaire's modesty (a hallmark of the man himself, not just his characters) makes his incredible ability even more admirable.

[spencerl964]

By the way to JAMIE-(hope you got what I sent?)

 

& others on here. You can likely purchase both heavywgts AFI Awards-(Astaire was awarded it in 1981 & Gene in 1986)

Just go to www.afi.com-(it's among the all-around top five finest websites about cinema. TCM being #1 though)

 

(NOTE: If anyone has the 1974 AFI Award to: James Cagney-(1899-1986) & would care to sell it, please notify me immediately! It seems it will never be back in print? Ironically, I have the very 1st one though, to: *John Ford-(1895-1973) in 1973)-(he died shortly after & for yrs. the annual AFI Award, became a semi-laughing stock due to most passing away shortly after)

 

& on that topic, Astaire was actually ranked all the way up the ladder at No. 5 all-time male movie-star in '99's "100 years...100 Stars"

& Gene, came in at #15th-(not that that matters to his fans,etc)

 

1 thing that many may agree on. The sole OSCAR nod. Fred earned was for a rather sleepwalking turn in: 1974's "Towering Inferno"-(his purest/non dancing perfromance: "0n the Beach")

& of course Kelly only won 1 as well-(though for leading actor) 1945's "Anchors Aweigh"(M-G-M)

 

& to JAMIE, hope your dancing career is still "TOPS!"

[ayresorchids]

Just to clarify, Astaire did not win the Oscar for The Towering Inferno. He was nominated, but the winner was Robert De Niro for The Godfather Part II. I've never seen the latter movie, but I agree that the Astaire nomination was a tip of the Academy's hat to an old veteran.

[Jamie]

Hiya, Spence!

 

oooo, everything is going great. I am not currently in any shows or dancing (unfortunately) due to work and the $$ I need so desperately in my pockets but I will most def. keep you in the know.

 

As for Gene Kelly, I did not know that he only received that one award. Wow.

 

Talk to you!

[therealfuster]

and speaking of Clifton Webb, had you heard that some people says his ghost still makes appearances at his old abode?

 

I'm hoping it is not in the shower, with that time saving and efficiency expert routine that he taught his children in "Cheaper By the Dozen", but perhaps more of a dance routine from his old musicals.

 

If one is going to be haunted by anyone, I think having it be Astaire would be nice though, as Clifton could be rather caustic and might give one a tongue lashing nightly.

[fssbdgtsue59]

I keep reading about the ongoing diferrences between Fred Astair and Gene Kelly and am amazed at the knowledge being passed back and forth. I, too, have a soft spot for Fred Astair. He was SO light on his feet and the way he hefted his dance partners was unbelievable, given his stature and estimated weight. He must have possessed great upper body strength to do those lifts and swirls, etc. What do you all think of this aspect of the men?

[ayresorchids]

I agree that Astaire must have been stronger than he looked, though he was not as inclined to lift his partners as Gene Kelly was. In the movie Carefree, Fred lifts Ginger in all three of their numbers together: She takes spectacular flight in the slow-motion dream dance to "I Used to be Color Blind" (followed by their first unambiguous screen kiss); he props his foot on a series of tables around the room and sails her over his leg each time at the end of "The Yam;" and he holds her up in his arms while she remains stiff as a board (she's in a state of hynopsis, according to the plot) at the end of "Change Partners." It's an astonishing maneuver!

 

Astaire was officially 5'9" and weighed about 140 lbs. at his heaviest, while Rogers was 5'4" and weighed about 100-105.

 

[fssbdgtsue59]

Comeon People! Let's keep this thread going even if we have to bring in new dancer/singer names! I hate to see a thread as interesting as this one die out for lack of interest. Anyone out there have any comments to post?

[gypsybangles]

Hi and Thanks To All Who Responded:

 

My original post was regarding Gene Kelly's wardrobe choices, (which for the most part I loathe) only mentioning Fred Astaire in passing. It's gone a little afield of my original intent, but I definitely know from personal experience how easy it is to get off the track sometimes.

 

If anyone would like to wade in with comments/observations of other unfortunate wardrobe decisions no matter who wore them, I think this might be more in keeping with the theme than a comparison of the Kelly/Astaire dancing styles.

 

I apologize if I appear preachy but would like the thread to continue if it can, more along wardrobe lines. But of course all thoughts are welcome.

 

Gypsy

[gwtwbooklover]

Let's see Elvis Presley would wear jeans( in alot of his movies) and all his fans learned he was not a fan of denim. Cilla says he didn't want those around him to wear jeans. Then sometimes bless his heart his clothes were a little to tight. Now in Paradise Hawaiin Style it was just a slight unflattering and in Blue Hawaii well his shorts were so tight you'ld think his seam would bust-unfortunately it didn't. However, Gene Kelly did wear some highwater pants and some odd choices in attire but he was something I like to marvel at oh I LLLLLOOOOVVVE Gene Kelly. I like that outfit he wore when he became that painting in An American in Paris what a body! I never panted after Astaire but he did dress drapper. Just a few of my opinions.

[bhryun]

While Kelly's wardrobe was usually far more casual than Fred's (as noted, jeans or khaki's with t-shirts, polo's), I've seen some ghastly Astaire outfits, usually in the form of rehearsal clothes. I think the worst is that ensemble he wears in ROYAL WEDDING when he is dancing with the hat rack. He looks like a dandified janitor in coveralls and a cravat.