twtpark Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 James Ellroy dubbed Eddie Muller "The Czar of Noir" and he did bring many interesting and some quite obsure film noirs to TCM. I miss him and hope he returns soon with some new Noirs he has uncovered. These Friday nights have been pretty bad lately on TCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaveGirl Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yeah, but first of all hasn't Ellroy milked the death of his mother long enough in print and on tv, and should be on to a new genre? And Muller is not really a Czar of Noir but more like a spear-toting private in that field. They need a woman to address the Noir genre on TCM and not all these guys who would be just pawns in the hands of a real femme fatale. No, no more male noir blather. Find a real noirish type chick and go with her as the historian. I think it would rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralddddd Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Well, Cave Girl, name some names. Who should be on the list of females to present Noir films ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Molly Haskell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM108 Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I'd love to see Molly Haskell return to TCM to do something besides narrate those 3 minute mini-biographies that get repeated about 600 times a week. But I'd also be grateful if we got another round of Muller's critiques. No need to disparage Eddie in order to praise Molly. But if we want to get some more women up there with Bob, a sentiment I'd second, I'd suggest two great bloggers: Farran Smith Nehme, AKA "The Self-Styled Siren", and Jacqueline T. Lynch, who does "Another Old Movie Blog". Either of these would be a terrific addition to the TCM lineup. http://selfstyledsiren.blogspot.com/ http://anotheroldmovieblog.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heuriger Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Molly Haskell is no one's idea of a femme fatale. Let's not drag her in to the proceedings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkeee Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I agree, Eddie Muller is the perfect "Czar of Noir", very knowledgeable, articulate and like Robert Osborne, likeable and classy. I thoroughly enjoyed watching him and I hope he will be back on TCM ! Sorry, I can't say the same about Molly Haskel...as in, at all ! Twink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValentineXavier Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 He's got my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geralddddd Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Frankly, I don't care who hosts it as long as they are knowledgeable on the subject. I was hoping they would have a Noir Fridays or Saturdays the same way they have Silent Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He IS likeable, but in keeping with the mood of noir, it might be interesting to have a noir host who was very unlikeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkeee Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 < it might be interesting to have a noir host who is very unlikeable > Oh financeu....like Mark Cousins maybe ? Twinkee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yeah, I've hardly watched any Friday films this month. I wonder what the theme is for Oct.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminigirl Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Is there a male version of Drew Barrymore out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibi Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Like we need one??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceyk65 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Molly Haskell would be good if they ever did another pre-code women series or if they ever did a series on the treatment of women in film (since I think that's her specialty?) I like Jeanine Bassinger (who also has nothing to do with Noir). Her book about the silent stars is wonderful and introduced me to some stars that I'd never heard of up to that point, like the Talmadge sisters. Her book The Star Machine is an interesting look at how the studios "made" stars and why it didn;t always work as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredCDobbs Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 >Find a real noirish type chick and go with her as the historian. If she was like Kathy Moffett, I'd go with her anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValentineXavier Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Maybe, but you wouldn't get very far, and you wouldn't like where you got... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaveGirl Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Finance, you said a mouthful when you said this most sensible statement about not using Muller as host: He IS likeable, but in keeping with the mood of noir, it might be interesting to have a noir host who was very unlikeable. So true, so true. It's like having Debbie Reynolds introducing a series about women who are serial murderers. Does not fit or compute. And instead of a guy hosting, they should have a woman, preferably someone diabolically entrancing like Glen Close or maybe a Gloria Grahame type. Now that would be fun and in keeping with the noir spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 An ideal noir host would be Keith Olbermann. who is again doing sports, and is as unlikeable as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misswonderly3 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think those who are suggesting that a "dislikable" host for a Film Noir night would be in keeping with the noir sensibility are either sticking their tongues in their cheeks or are demonstrating a misunderstanding of the genre. If noir were "unpleasant" or "dislikable", then I wouldn't like it. Yup, its themes, mood, stories, and characters are usually "dark" (not to mention its look), but it does not follow that its films are hard to like, or that its characters are. Au contraire, the protagonists of film noir are often - in fact, they're usually - people we can identify with, and therefore, like - or at the very least, we do not DISlike them. Just because they are sucked into doing bad things does not mean they are bad, or even "dislikable". (see that "Good Bad Judgemental" thread for more on this idea. Sorry, I do not intend blatant self-promotion, honestly.) In fact, I find most of the characters in noir to be either likable or at least entertaining. Even the villains (when there are any) are fun to watch (like Kirk Douglas in *Out of the Past* ) So I respectfully submit that the suggestion that a host for a Film Noir Night at TCM ought to be "dislikable" because it somehow fits with noir as a concept is facile and poorly thought out. Sorry, that's rather harsh - and I do respect the folks who've put forward this idea. But, what can I say? Baby, it's all wrong. Edited by: misswonderly on Oct 3, 2013 10:09 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 "Poorly thought out"? Wow. I feel like I've really been taken to the woodshed.. Let's take the films that are arguably the two top noirs. In DOUBLE INDEMNITY, the only chatacter of the many in the film who is half-likeable is the EGR character, and he is supporting. In OUT OF THE PAST, everybody is pretty unlikeable except for maybe Jeff Bailey, and he certainly was not a candidate for any "good citizenship" award. (although there is nothing wrong with Bailey's girlfriend or the deaf and dumb guy.) Edited by: finance on Oct 4, 2013 9:26 AM Edited by: finance on Oct 4, 2013 9:46 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misswonderly3 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I don't agree. I think Walter Neff is likable, or at least, understandable, someone we can sort of identify with...until, of course, he actually murders Phyllis' hapless husband. Again, I offer the same argument I used when talking about *Sunset Boulevard* : it's no accident when a director or screenwriter chooses to employ a main character narrative voice-over in a film, especially if that character is not a model citizen. It helps the audience empathize with that character,which is exactly what the director wants us to do. Interesting to consider that in both the above examples, the director is Billy Wilder. Again, I am not deliberately promoting my "Good, Bad, and Judgemental" thread -it had its day, fine... but that was the whole point of my thread, that people who perform what is commonly regarded as "bad" acts in society can still be sympathetic, even likable. I like Jeff Bailey; as far as I can recall the film (and I've seen it many times) he never even kills anyone, except of course Kathy, at the very end. He's just some guy who, smart though he may have been, got drawn into Whit Sterling's complicated illicit web of lust, greed, and power. He also fell for the wrong woman, but shirley that does not make a guy "dislikeable". "Likable" is not the same thing as morally upright; some of the most charming people in filmdom (not to mention real life) have been bad 'uns. Being a candidate for a "good citizenship" award does not ipso facto render one a likeable human being. Such a person might be boring, self-righteous, or just plain socially awkward. Sheesh, I can see that that "Good Bad Judgemental" thread was not fully explored - that whole "good citizenship" vs "likable" thing was exactly what I was talking about. Maybe when casting about for a potential host for a film noir night, we should consider who might be the most charming, the most serpentine, the most silkily deceptive. Upon consideration, I don't even want a "good" person introducing my beloved noirs. But neither do I want someone who might be, shall we say, socially challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesJazGuitar Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Looking at the characters of Walter, Joe and Jeff is interesting. I agree all three characters are drawn to be likeable. But are we pulling for them? I.e. hoping all turns out well for their character? One major difference is that with Walter and Joe we know right from the start how they end up. That knowledge makes it illogical to get emotionally invested in a good outcome for them. But with Joe I do feel bad that he cannot get himself out of his situation (I think where we may disagree is that it takes me longer to get this compassion for Joe than it does for you). As for Walter, like you noted, one has very little compassion as soon as we understand he is willing to murder. But Walter was a likeable flirt until that point. With Jeff I have compassion for him from the start. I?m pulling for him the entire way but with the understanding that, this being noir, the odds are he will still end up like Walter and Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownGoesFrazier Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 You're so into Robert Mitchum that probably the worst you could say about his CAPE FEAR and NIGHT OF THE HUNTER characters is that they are misunderstood.......Neff being sympathetic until he kills the guy is hardly a hearty endorsement of the gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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