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The Bitter Tea of General Yen, tonight 10 pm E 10-5-13


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Several people in the Southwest and Southern California have explained to me that white Cubans consider themselves to be white European Spanish, while Hispanic means a mix between Spanish and Indians or Spanish and Africans. And a Cuban "European' is the same as an Italian, French, German, English, etc.

 

I first learned this from real estate agents in Southern California in the mid-1970s. This might not be completely genetically accurate. I've noticed it tends to follow class lines. For example, a wealthy Hispanic family can pass as a Spanish family.

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>I think Top Billed made a very valid observation. After all, Desi was Hispanic.

 

Hispanic is not a race. The 1990 census questions on race and Hispanic origin were changed for Census 2000. The Federal government considers race and Hispanic origin to be two separate and distinct concepts. Ergo, Desi Arnaz was a white Hispanic contrary to previously held beliefs.

 

http://nationalatlas.gov/articles/people/a_race.html

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>I suppose that Lucy and Desi broke a taboo barrier at the movies at the time regarding miscegenation

 

Old beliefs can be very difficult to break.

 

 

 

In the present day, the word miscegenation is avoided by many scholars, because the term suggests a concrete biological phenomenon, rather than a categorization imposed on certain relationships. The term's historical use in contexts that typically implied disapproval is also a reason why more unambiguously neutral terms such as interracial, inter ethnic or cross-cultural are more common in contemporary usage.The term remains in use among scholars when referring to past practices concerning multiracial peoples, such as anti-miscegenation laws that banned interracial marriages.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation

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>Lana is trying to learn the customs of his people and seeing how she can fit into his world. I do not remember race really being mentioned at all. I will have to go back and look more closely at the film the next time LATIN LOVERS airs on TCM.

 

This is a case of Ricardo Montalban, who was white enough and European looking enough to have been considered to be European-Spanish by "race". No different than being European-Italian. Just like many Irish and Italian American families still consider themselves to be Irish and Italian, rather than Caucasian, and a lot of them still want their kids to marry Irish and Italians.

 

If you watch some of the Novellas on Univision, Galavision, EstrellaTV, and VMe (PBS Spanish language), you will see many light skinned Latin American European-Spanish type actors. In fact, VMe airs English and Australian Novellas which have very good Spanish-language voice dubs, and the characters are considered to be European Spanish.

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The distinction among "Hispanics" in the world of Hollywood movies past isn't hard to understand, and can be explained by a simple baseball analogy.

 

If the Hispanic (or Latino) was "white" enough to have played Major League Baseball prior to Jackie Robinson, he was probably light skinned enough to be considered white by Hollywood. The "Latin lover" stock figure was always considered a suitable if somewhat exotic romantic partner to white women in movies dating all the way back to the silent era.

 

OTOH if the Hispanic / Latino was too dark to have slipped by Kenesaw Mountain Landis and made it into Organized Baseball before 1947, then he would have had an equally impossible chance of finding any romantic movie roles outside the "race film" circuit. Nobody was going to pair off someone who looked like Alfonso Bedoya with a white woman in any matchup other than rapist and victim.

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Yes, there are different standards and different definitions. The ones I heard are from my Spanish-Latin friends, ones who have considered to maintain their white European race for many generations by inter-marrying with other white European Spanish and occasionally an Italian, German, English, or other white European. Much "other Euopean" inter marriages took place as the result of European car companies and other types of companies, opening businesses and factories in Mexico, Argentina, etc. and sending their own nationals over to manage their Latin business interests, and many of their sons and daughters married into the local white Spanish families. :)

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  • 4 years later...

Regarding Raintree County for the record Liz Taylor's character was not part black she THINKS that she is part black, but 3/4 way through the film her nursemaid tells Clifts character that she was present for her birth and her mom was indeed white.  This is something that grated on Liz's character but more so was the letter she wrote to her mom telling of her dad's infidelity with a slave in which it is suspected Taylor's mother shoots them both and sets fire to the mansion...this is why Liz goes crazy.

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