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TopBilled

Joan Crawford as SOTM January 2014

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Well,.again i dont know how you can state so matter of factly what the order in which TCM must honor stars best known for being under contract to Fox. While I enjoy Webb, and he waa very popular, all of his talkies were made for 20th. This will make it more difficult for TCM to have him as SOTM than someone who did a fair number of films elsewhere, such as Power, Temple, Tierney and yes Darnell and Hayward.

 

Some huge Fox stars, deserving of being selected imho, will bs handicapped by their mostly filming there....Alice Faye, Sonja Henie (who didnt do enough movies to cover a month), Carmen Miranda.....

 

 

As for Wagner being honored due to being a Friend of TCM, well what happened to the reasons espoused here about Crawford again being selected, that she was a huge iconic long lasting star....FOTCM is the worst reason yet given as to why someone should be chosen.

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> This is a discussion forum. I'm not on here to demand anything from TCM but to discuss choices the programmers made. My emotions or any lack thereof are not the issue. It's so obvious when someone tries to obfuscate the issue. So please cease the patronizing comments.

 

I agree. If I called somebody who disagreed with me an apologist for TCM, that would be obfuscating the issue, and patronizing to the poster in question.

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I posed a question to poster. It's still conjecture if he agrees or disagrees with my question. I didn't tell him, "Calm down, you take this too seriously or tell him, "I thought as a classic movie fan you would know that so and so......." as I was told in a patronizing fashion by other poster.

 

TCM can never be wrong. They cut and edit movies but they are still station that never cuts or edits their movies. They (the cuts) are done by others. Let's shift the blame to Sony Then as we are confronted with the edit within the movie we know what is being said by context so the cut is immaterial. I think TCM should stand for Teflon Classic Movies.

 

But thank you for your patronage. I owe you two cents .Do you accept Canadian?

 

Excuse me, but now I have to go round to hospital and then to Sky Dome (Rogers Centre).

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Yes, Hayward gave better performances. Hayward was one of Hollywood's most accomplished actresses, IMHO. .......and NOBODY could play drunk better than Hayward.

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Some films are cut by the studio and sold as alternate versions. Sony/Columbia's NIGHT OF THE DEMON also circulates in truncated form, as CURSE OF THE DEMON. TCM is not responsible for excising footage from a classic film. In this case, it is Sony's doing.

 

I think when TCM says it is uncut and commercial free, it is really referring to the fact that it does not chop its broadcasts into pieces to accommodate commercial interruptions. On other stations, when that happens, seconds and maybe even whole minutes are lost, so that the action resumes at a point of interest after the advertisements.

 

I am not going to write any more on this issue in the thread. The discussion here is about Crawford as Star of the Month, not about accusing TCM of butchering the prints it receives from the studios.

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>Some huge Fox stars, deserving of being selected imho, will be handicapped by their mostly filming there....Alice Faye, Sonja Henie (who didnt do enough movies to cover a month), Carmen Miranda.....

 

I don't think Carmen Miranda really made enough films either to be Star of the Month, but she certainly could be honored for Summer Under the Stars.

 

Fortunately, Faye has received a lot of exposure/airplay on FMC in recent years. We should also mention Betty Grable in this regard, too.

 

>I enjoy Webb, and he was very popular, all of his talkies were made for 20th. This will make it more difficult for TCM to have him as SOTM than someone who did a fair number of films elsewhere

 

I agree. I think of the ones I mentioned that Shirley Temple would be the easiest one to feature. Her film career lasted longer post-Fox than some of the other stars. And many of those later Shirley Temple titles are in the Turner Library, or else are much easier for the channel to acquire rights to airing because they were made with Selznick or at Columbia.

 

>FOTCM is the worst reason yet given as to why someone should be chosen

 

Robert Wagner did not have as significant a film career as Tyrone Power did. But I think Wagner would be a good choice for an evening spotlight. If he ever filled in for Osborne again, they should turn a night over to him, where he could discuss some of his own movies.

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>Hayward gave better performances. Hayward was one of Hollywood's most accomplished actresses, IMHO.

 

Do you think Hayward gave better performances than Crawford?

 

This morning I watched a copy I had of TAP ROOTS, a Universal International release from the late '40s that Susan did for producer Walter Wanger. She was good as usual but not spectacular in what amounted to a Scarlett O'Hara type role (and we must say that she did audition for Scarlett a decade earlier). This was her big chance to do a suffering southern belle during the war, and I sort of thought she fell flat-- she was upstaged by Van Heflin, Ward Bond and Julie London (who had the type of supporting vixen role that Hayward did earlier at Paramount). Even Boris Karloff, who is cast as a Native American and attempts to play his part more subtly than he tends to do in other pictures, comes off making a more lasting impression than Hayward does.

 

Crawford would have been all over this part. And the Susan Hayward we know from the 1950s and 1960s would also have gone to town with it. Quite frankly, I was surprised at how subdued Hayward was in some of the key scenes in TAP ROOTS, especially in the paralysis scenes-- why did Wanger and director George Marshall let her phone some of this in? Maybe Wanger should have instead cast his wife Joan Bennett to play Morna Dabney.

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>not about accusing TCM of butchering the prints it receives from the studios.

 

 

It's only conjecture what you think they really mean when they tout themselves in that promotion as uncut and commercial free. However, It is not I who established the visual pun of 'cutting and butchering' but the TCM promotions department. But do you really think the TCM honchos would be willing to qualify the notion that they don't cut films but accept the cuts of films done by others? I dare say no.

 

*Perhaps we should rewrite that promotion to say, "TCM is not responsible for any cutting or editing of films it shows, any cutting that is done is done so by other entities. We just play those edited films."*

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I have no problems with Joan being a SOTM per se. My beef in this instance was that Mary Astor (who has been waiting 20 years to be a SOTM) was announced as the star, and now it turns out Joan is. Hopefully we wont have to wait another year for Mary to get her due. I realize TCM needs ratings and therefore concentrates on more well known stars, but there are a lot of stars who are still waiting for their first try while others keep getting repeated (in this instance at least it was 10 years ago)....

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> If he ever filled in for Osborne again, they should turn a night over to him, where he could discuss some of his own movies.

 

Perhaps he could discuss how Barbra Stanwyck eased his way into feature films with such aplomb.

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> My beef in this instance was that Mary Astor (who has been waiting 20 years to be a SOTM) was announced as the star, and now it turns out Joan is. Hopefully we wont have to wait another year for Mary to get her due.

 

From the sounds of things, Mary Astor's SOTM will be coming up later in the spring. It was postponed after the announcement was made that she would be SOTM in January. But, from what I have read around the internet, it wasn't canceled, just postponed a few months.

 

Joan Crawford was substituted for Astor when Astor's stint had to be postponed.

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*Some films are cut by the studio and sold as alternate versions. Sony/Columbia's NIGHT OF THE DEMON also circulates in truncated form, as CURSE OF THE DEMON. TCM is not responsible for excising footage from a classic film. In this case, it is Sony's doing.*

 

Actually, in this case, the shorter CURSE OF THE DEMON was the version and title of the movie that circulated in the US back in 1958. The longer NOTD was what was released in Britain back then.

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Comparing Hayward to Crawford is like comparing apples and oranges. Crawford's strong suit was her sheer volume of work, and length of career, which dwarfed just about anybody.

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When the topic about showing edited films was discussed many months ago I said that TCM should update their promotion.

 

But it is flat out wrong to say the TCM cuts the films. That would mean TCM gets a copy of a film that HAD the scene and then TCM cuts out said scene. I'm laughing at anyone that thinks this is the case.

 

TMC does accept the cuts done legally by those with the rights to edit a film. But I do think TCM should tell people what specific version they are showing. Sometimes it appears the TCM programmers don't know what version they are showing. That isn't acceptable.

 

Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Oct 22, 2013 5:54 PM

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Good post, jamesjazzguitar.

 

I think we will probably see the version of THEY ALL KISSED THE BRIDE in January where Crawford's dialogue about 'Japs' is edited out again. It may be that the original film negative is what was trimmed and all subsequent prints will reflect it. I don't know. I do know that we live in an age of political correctness and revisionist history. Some people, not necessarily just TCM executives, but a lot of people in the general population at large, could find the line a slur and it would make viewing the film uncomfortable for them.

 

I wrote about this before in an earlier thread, right after Molly Haskell presented those films. I am not against the cut, because of what isn't allowed to be said on cable television, but because of how someone attempted to solve the problem. The editing reminds me of a French New Wave jump cut (those were usually done for artistic effect)-- but in this case, Crawford is in mid-sentence and it is very jarring to the person watching the film. This particular edit completely up-ends the scene and destroys continuity, pulling us for a moment entirely out of the narrative. It's almost like a convulsion or a bad hiccup, that's how uneven the editing is in order to remove that piece of dialogue.

 

Personally, in the case of this film, which on the whole is a harmless and rather charming screwball comedy, I would have preferred it if the footage was left in, but that Crawford's dialogue was either muted or dubbed by someone who sounds like her to say something that would be considered less offensive by today's audiences.

 

Unfortunately, someone had a field day with the scissors and it hurts the way the film is presented on TCM.

 

Edited by: TopBilled on Oct 22, 2013 1:59 PM for clarity.

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>But it is flat out wrong to say the TCM cuts the films. That would mean TCM gets a copy of a film that HAD the scene and then TCM cuts out said scene. I'm laughing at anyone that thinks this is the case.

 

As I said earlier, the fact that TCM doesn't actually cut or edit the films yet will allow a cut or edited film to be shown on their channel is really splitting hairs. The upshot is that the viewer is seeing an edited film. So yes, perhaps TCM should tell viewers which version of a film is being shown.

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Sorry but I'm not buying that splitting hair POV. I believe people like to say TCM cuts the films, when they clearly do NOT, as a way to make their insult of TCM stronger. i.e. they get a kick out of stinging TCM.

 

Like I said, TCM should do a better job of explaining which version they are planning to show in their programming 'notes' and in the intro (as long as doing so isn't a spoiler). But IF the only version TCM has legal access to is an edited version, I would rather they show that version then NOT show the movie at all.

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Bumping this thread, for folks that may not have seen it yet. Joan's month kicks off tomorrow...

 

Quick note:

 

The comments about Mary Astor were made by posters before she had been announced as the Star of the Month for March.

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Fantastic lineup of 53 Joan Crawford films. The 31 films (12 since 1932) she received credit for which are not being played now are...

 

Pretty Ladies (1925), The Circle (1925), Old Clothes (1925), Sally, Irene and Mary (1925), Tramp, Tramp, Tramp (1926), Paris (1926), Winners of the Wilderness (1927), The Taxi Dancer (1927), The Understanding Heart (1927), Twelve Miles Out (1927), The Law of the Range (1928), Rose-Marie (1928), Four Walls (1928), Dream of Love (1928), The Duke Steps Out (1929), Great Day (1930), The Stolen Jools (1931), Letty Lynton (1932), Rain (1932), Hollywood Canteen (1944), Daisy Kenyon (1947), It's a Great Feeling (1949), Sudden Fear (1952), Johnny Guitar (1954), Female on the Beach (1955), The Best of Everything (1959), Della (1964), Strait-Jacket (1964), I Saw What You Did (1965), Berserk! (1967), Journey to Midnight (1968),

 

Which of these 31 would you like?

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Some of the omissions you mentioned are in error. These films have been scheduled by TCM's programmers for January: RAIN; IT'S A GREAT FEELING; THE BEST OF EVERYTHING; and BERSERK!

 

And although JOHNNY GUITAR is not included, it did air twice in recent months.

 

DAISY KENYON is the one film that has not shown up recently, but I think it will eventually since TCM has been able to acquire more Fox titles.

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Letty Lynton is tied up in legal issues. Has been for many, many decades. No one can see that film right now. For the 100th time that I've requested *Sudden Fear* it's a teriffic film, seen it a number of times on my own. As far as *Female on The Beach* goes, luckily I own a copy

 

Rain, Hollywood Canteen, Johnny Guitar, The Best of Everything, Straight Jacket, Berserk have all been shown on TCM in the past, so watch out for them, sure they'll reappear at some point.

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Yes, FEMALE ON THE BEACH is a fun picture. And it pairs her with Jeff Chandler, which makes it even better if you ask me.

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Does anyone else have a fondness for William Haines like I do? Watching a few silents that Crawford made with him, it is easy to see what sort of natural charm and charisma he had. I don't know why TCM doesn't give him a day in August. He made silents and precodes, and almost all were produced at MGM. WEST POINT is particularly good, and the print is in fabulous condition.

 

How about it, TCM programmers? Let's get him on the roster for Summer Under the Stars. He was one of MGM's top moneymakers during his era, and his work should be celebrated.

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