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Something of interest - JFK and Oswald.


hamradio
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Fred, I missed that thread. Thanks! :) Like how you found Waldo (Oswald) in the photo, you got a sharp eye. The one you posted last year is slightly different from mine. Bit of irony he's a former Marine being arrested in a theatre showing war movies

 

At present I'm watching "Lee Harvey Oswald - 48 Hours To Live" on the History channel. I didn't know Jack Ruby has been in the police headquarters several times before he killed Oswald. Learn something every day.

 

According to this documentary, Oswald is also in trouble with the Postal Inspector for giving a false name when mailing the rifle. NOW he's in for it. silly.gif

 

Seeing that marquee reminds me of the era of double features. That one has the same theme.

 

Edited by: hamradio on Nov 22, 2013 11:36 PM

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> Seeing that marquee reminds me of the era of double features. That one has the same theme.

 

That wasn't too common. I recall seeing THE BIRDMAN OF ALCATRAZ on the same bill with HELL IS FOR HEROES, and LIBERTY VALANCE with THE HORIZONTAL LEIUTENENT.

 

Sepiatone

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In the *Four Days in November* documentary the shoe clerk states that Oswald entered his store just after he'd heard the APB with his description on the radio. Oswald had seen police cars in the area and darted in but only stayed a few seconds before heading for the Texas Theater. The clerk followed him then told the theater manager who had the cashier call the police.

 

Of course the officers all came ASAP. One of their own had just been murdered and they wanted him collared. Oswald was lucky it wasn't another time; he could have been lynched or beaten to death right there rather than quickly shot to death two days later by Jack Ruby.

 

The documentary included a brief scene of Oswald's funeral with only his family present but not Officer Tippett's which should have been a part of it as well. I saw a photo of Marie Tippett being escorted out of the church, dressed like Jackie but near collaspe, so perhaps there is film that could have been used as well as that photo. That family was forgotten yesterday.

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>In the Four Days in November documentary the shoe clerk states that Oswald entered his store just after he'd heard the APB with his description on the radio. Oswald had seen police cars in the area and darted in but only stayed a few seconds before heading for the Texas Theater. The clerk followed him then told the theater manager who had the cashier call the police.

>

>Of course the officers all came ASAP.

 

Yes, and that is what led to the capture of Oswald.

 

The Wolper documentary made a great contribution to this case by being the only source that interviewed and photographed the shoe store clerk, in a way that would remain public information in their great 2-hour documentary. I originally saw this film on the big screen in a theater when it was distributed as a theatrical documentary in 1964.

 

Also, the 26 volumes of Warren Commission documents lists several other people who were stopped, arrested, interviewed, questioned by the police all around Dallas that day, as other citizens called the police to report suspicious characters. And of course that particular one in the theater turned out to be the guilty one.

 

Oswald actually gave himself away by pulling his pistol on the police in the theater and shouting THIS IS IT! when he tried to shoot the cop who was trying to question him. It was that fact, his pulling of his pistol, that caused his immediate arrest. If he had thrown that pistol away, during his flight through Oak Cliff and eventually to the theater, he might not have been arrested at all, unless they found out he worked in the Book Depository building and was the one "missing employee" after the assassination.

 

The Wolper documentary is a very valuable research source.

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Hi Ham, I'm glad you brought that topic up again, because I had forgotten about it.

 

Last year I just happened to remember that film title when TCM aired it, and then I went and found a copy of one of the photos taken at the Texas Theater during the arrest.

 

Oswald's biggest mistake at that point in time was not throwing that pistol away when he was on the run, and then pulling it and trying to shoot a cop in the theater. What a stupid thing to do. They had no idea who he was, and they did not know anything at all about his guilt, until he pulled that gun, and only THEN did they realize they had found the Tippitt killer. But they DID NOT yet know if he was also the JFK killer. They figured that out later, especially after they learned that he worked at the Book Depository, and later his wife told the cops that he did indeed own that rifle.

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The clerk from the shoe store (now much older, aren't we all?) was interviewed by Tom Brokaw and featured in Brokaw's show on NBC last night, *Where Were You* one of the many telecasts to commemorate the assassination of JFK.

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FredCDobbs wrote:

<< Oswald's biggest mistake at that point in time was not throwing that pistol away when he was on the run, and then pulling it and trying to shoot a cop in the theater. >>

 

That leads to the question, why did he have it in the first place if not to use it. Uncertain if he wanted to kill as many officers as possible if they try to stop him or go out in a blaze of glory if cornered. He was intending to go back to Mexico if not caught because of the bus ticket that was found on him.

 

Officer J. D. Tippit was not just shot but executed by the overkill head shot. He reloaded the pistol afterwards which shows he intended to use it again. Who knows what goes through the mind of a manic who wants fame one way or another. No way on Earth would Castro allow him into Cuba because *he* didn't have a death wish.

 

The other special I watched "JFK: The Definitive Guide".

http://www.starpulse.com/news/Brittany_Frederick/2013/11/22/history_channel_airs_two_new_jfk_speci

 

Lol there are a whopping 311 distinctly different conspiracy theories. (even aliens are involved)

 

Edited by: hamradio on Nov 23, 2013 8:15 PM

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wouldbestor wrote:

<< In the Four Days in November documentary the shoe clerk states that Oswald entered his store just after he'd heard the APB with his description on the radio. Oswald had seen police cars in the area and darted in but only stayed a few seconds before heading for the Texas Theater. The clerk followed him then told the theater manager who had the cashier call the police. >>

 

About the shoe store, according to the documentary, he did not went in but tried to hide by facing the entrance. The odd behavior i.e. being very nervous is what made the store clerk suspicious. Some of the old department stores use to have those deep entrances which had 2 large displays on both sides

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>About the shoe store, according to the documentary, he did not went in but tried to hide by facing the entrance. The odd behavior i.e. being very nervous is what made the store clerk suspicious. Some of the old department stores use to have those deep entrances which had 2 large displays on both sides

 

Yes.

 

One website says that the old shoe store was in the building on the far right in this modern photo, showing that the entrance was recessed, with glass display windows on both sides of the entrance. Oswald ducked into this recess and hid his face when the shoe clerk noticed him.

 

http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/213_WJefferson_opt.jpg

 

The old Texas Theater can be seen in the distance.

 

Study of a lot of details of the case reveals that other people were stopped and questioned all over Dallas because they fit the general description and some citizens thought they were acting suspiciously. A few were taken to the jail for questioning but were later released. Oswald cinched his own guilt by pulling his pistol on the policeman in the theater.

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One has to wonder that if Oswald had kept his cool and planned things a little better, he could have escaped from Dallas that day. He might have eventually been caught, but who knows?

 

One of the few light sides of the documentary Four Days in November was JFK having to go to all these dinners and speaking engagements which were a part of every pol's life and having to pretend you're actually thrilled to be there when they give you some tired gift you don't really want. Some things never change.

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>One has to wonder that if Oswald had kept his cool and planned things a little better, he could have escaped from Dallas that day. He might have eventually been caught, but who knows?

 

I've studied a lot about Oswald's psychology, and the psychology of other killers, and as strange as it might seem, some killers, assassins, etc. are so obsessed with killing their victim, they are able to concentrate only on their plan for the killing and they often forget to concentrate on any plan for any kind of logical escape for themselves.

 

Oswald could have caught a cross-country bus at the bus station and not been found for days or weeks. He could have been in a Texas border town in a few hours and walked across the border into Mexico.

 

The video below shows a classic case of a guy who was so obsessed with killing a lawyer who had helped his wife in her divorce case, he negleced to think up any escape plan for himself. The guy shot the lawyer as he dodged bullets from behind a tree, and after the guy ran out of bullets he just turned and calmly walked away. He had absolutely NO escape plan and he was captured a few seconds later.

 

It seems obvious that Oswald did not develop any logical escape plan, although he carefully planned the killing itself, even by sneaking his rifle into the building, broken down into two pieces and wrapped in heavy brown paper, yet he left his rifle on the 6th floor, which made it easy for the police to find and tie it to both the killing and to the assassin, and the assassin's own wife told the police that it was indeed Oswald's rifle.

 

Nobody knows where he was going after he left his apartment house with his pistol, and it's quite possible that Oswald himself did not know where he was going.

 

Here's the guy shooting the lawyer and then just walking away:

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

John Wilkes Booth did a stupid thing by jumping onto the stage at Ford's theater, breaking his leg, when he could have easily run down the back stairs claiming to bystanders that he was chasing a shooter. But instead, he announced himself to the audience as being the shooter and he had no good escape plan, and he wound up in a swamp and then in a farmer's barn.

 

Lynette Squeaky Fromme had no escape plan after she aimed the gun at Gerald Ford in Sacramento. John Hinckley had no escape plan after shooting Reagan. Sara Jane Moore had no escape plan after shooting at Gerald Ford in San Francisco. Sirhan Sirhan had no escape plan after shooting Robert Kennedy. Leon Czolgosz had no escape plan after shooting President William McKinley. Charles J. Guiteau had no escape plan after shooting President Garfield. John F. Schrank had no escape plan after shooting Teddy Roosevelt in 1912. Giuseppe Zangara fired 5 shots at President Elect Franklin Roosevelt in 1933 and he had no escape plan. Oscar Collazo and Griselio Torresola tried to shoot President Truman in Washington in 1950 and they had no escape plan.

 

Edited by: FredCDobbs on Nov 23, 2013 10:33 PM

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Charles J. Guiteau who assassinated James A. Garfield and Leon Czolgosz who assassinated William McKinley had no escape plan to speak of. They seem to walk right into their captors. Maybe this is the few constants of the universe.

 

By the way, why these presidents are never talked about? Justice was dealt out for their murders, Leon Czolgosz the chair and Guiteau the rope.

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> By the way, why these presidents are never talked about? Justice was dealt out for their murders, Leon Czolgosz the chair and Guiteau the rope.

 

Probably that "point of referrence" thing. Personally, OUR worlds weren't shattered by either Garfield's or McKinley's assassinations.

 

Justice WAS dealt out for their murderers, but not in Oswald's case. Turned out HE became a victim, too. Never tried or convicted legally in a court of law by a jury of his peers for Kennedy's assassination, people forget that in spite of PERCIEVED evedence, he still had to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, like any of us, and since there was no opportunity in a court of law for him to be legally represented, and present a defense, all assumption of his guilt is based solely on circumstantial speculation. The Warren report, that geek who claimed to have created a computer program as proof, the Mythbusters and Oliver Stone are all hogwash. Maybe they were right, maybe not. That idiot Jack Ruby made sure the truth remained hidden.

 

Sepiatone

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>in Oswald's case. Turned out HE became a victim, too

 

Several witnesses identified Oswald as the perpetrator of J.D. Tippit's execution on the streets of Oak Cliff. After shooting him three times in the chest, he stood over his prone body and fired the fatal shot into his temple. Do you really believe Mrs. Tippit feels L.H. Oswald is any type of victim in all of this?

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Doesn't MATTER what she thinks. I'm bringing up facts. And the fact is that Oswald was also murdered in cold blood.

 

I'm not forwarding any SYMPATHY, mind you. In Tippet's case, it was OBSCENE how it was carried out.

 

But step back from emotion on any of this, and it's clear. Due to Jack Ruby, Oswald, too, was a murder victim.

 

Sepiatone

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You don't need a court of law to tell you Oswald killed Tippit. Many people saw him shoot the officer, run away from the scene dashing across lawns and emptying his revolver. Many individuals testified to this and identified him in police line ups. I guess the ACLU wasn't there to argue for his innocence so we shouldn't condemn the man.

 

Ever hear of the proverb you reap what you sow? There WAS justice in his demise and his name was Jack Ruby. Thank you, Jack.

 

When the court eventually over turned Ruby's conviction of murder you could say Oswald wasn't technically a murder victim.

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While I completely understand the sentiment here, LD, sorry but count me out as ever "thanking" Mr. Ruby, also.

 

It's because of him and his vigilantism which in his own small way has contributed to all these "Black Helicopter-type" conspiracy theorists and their paranoid ramblings which often cloud many an issue in today's America.

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