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Mourning the death of TCM as we know it...


NylonLisa
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I consider myself a classic movie fan. Many days, it's the only channel on in my home, but recently I been disappointed by all the post 1970's, 80's and 90's films, which I have no interest in watching. I consider "classic" to mean those pre-1970's. Call me a puritan,

and if I wanted to watch those post 1970's, I could change the channel.

I hate the new format.

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>I consider myself a classic movie fan. Many days, it's the only channel on in my home, but recently I been disappointed by all the post 1970's, 80's and 90's films, which I have no interest in watching. I consider "classic" to mean those pre-1970's. Call me a puritan, and if I wanted to watch those post 1970's, I could change the channel. I hate the new format.

 

Well, I suppose that would make sense in YOUR case here, ol' boy.

 

I mean anyone named after a brand of motorcycle which went defunct in 1942 WOULD probably feel that way, RIGHT?! ;)

 

crocker-motorcycle-1.jpg

 

(...btw, welcome to the boards, "oldtimer"!) ;)

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Your user name isn't familiar to me. Must be somewhat new. If that's the case, a hearty belated welcome.

 

Yeah, there are many post 1970 movies that could be considered "classic" in the sense they pass the test of time ie; THE GODFATHER( both parts), CHINATOWN, JAWS, PELHAM 123, CUCKOO'S NEST. Among others (I'm NOT prone to making mile long lists of movies that take up WAY too much space in a thread). TCM may show a few of them, not show many others( due to that "rights" thing). But it's just that many people here feel, as one person put it elsewhere, there should be some arbitrary time period cut-off. I don't think so. As long as the movie has some vibe about it that makes it "classic" in the sense of being well made and good stoytelling, it's OK with me. MY only gripe is that TCM will show some movies that are NOT so old, and NOT really all that classic in production value, like their recent showing of some movie about bikini clad secret agents.

 

Sepiatone

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>...and NOT really all that classic in production value, like their recent showing of some movie about bikini clad secret agents.

 

Better watch what you're sayin' here, Sepia!

 

Word is Dr. Goldfoot is still lurking out there somewhere and is planning on taking his revenge upon anyone who dare say the things you've just said here! ;)

 

Dr.GoldfootBikiniMachine2.jpg

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This topic should be tied to the "What Are Classic" threads.

 

I think the heart of the issue, are people using the word *classic* too generically. Are they confusing this with the *Studio Era* which time period is between 1927-1960?

 

Maybe a new concept should be considered....

 

Pre-Studio...1898 -1926...Classics i.e. "Intolerance", "The Mark of Zorro".

Studio era....1927-1969...Classics i.e. "Gone With The Wind", "Wizard of Oz".

Post-Studio..1970-2003...Classics i.e. "Star Wars", "On Golden Pond".

 

Give at least 10 years for a movie to become a classic to stand the minimum test of time.

 

What are everyones thoughts on my suggestion? :)

 

Edited by: hamradio on Dec 2, 2013 1:28 PM

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I agree that the term 'classic' isn't very useful in this dicussion. This is why I use the term Studio Era. Like I said I would like TCM to devote at least 80% of their programming to Studio Era movies. Note that many studio era movies are not 'classic' (i.e. not really great movies), especially 30 programmers, but I still want TCM to shows these NON 'classic' studio era movies.

 

So I would change the name to TSEM!

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According to the Baltimore Sun in an article about the debut of TCM this what classic means these days:

 

"Old movies, now referred to as classics (emphasis mine), have been the staple of non-network television since the rise of independent stations in the 1950s."

 

The article also noted that TCM would play films from all eras and not just concentrate only on pre-1960 films.

 

The article was posted by calvinnme in the other "Death of TCM" type thread that is currently on the boards.

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This isn't meant as a comment to anyone in particular. I'm amazed at the constant complaining about TCM. Not a week goes by when there isn't a thread about it. While I agree TCM could be improved, I also understand budget considerations and the like. It's still the best movie station on the air. I find I watch TCM less, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm reading more and doing other things. TCM shouldn't be a person's reason for being or one's only interest in life.

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>TCM shouldn't be a person's reason for being or one's only interest in life.

 

Why not?

 

Look, all kinds of people have hobbies. They get enjoyment from hobbies.

 

Some people play music. Some people like to climb cliffs in their 4 wd Suvs. That's a big hobby here in the Southwest. Mexican teens like to build low-riders. Some guys join bands that aren't commercially successful, but they enjoy playing music. Some people like to hike. Others like to ski. Others like to spend lots of money going on cruises and to film festivals. Some ladies like to collect store cupons and they enjoy it very much, although store cupons irritate me and they are all out of date whenever I try to cash them in. :)

 

Watching OLD CLASSIC MOVIES is a very relaxing hobby, because there is no modern stuff in the films. No cursing, not too much blood. The good guys and gals almost always win. There are no fights between dems and repubs and political crooks usually go to jail, there are no gang related drive by shootings in which the shooters get away with it. There are no serial killers where the killer kills hundreds of women and is never found.

 

If we didn't LOVE TCM, we wouldn't be here every day. :)

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Maybe we should just leave out the words classic, old, and new, and show lists of our favorite actors, whose films we would like to see more of on TCM, such as:. . .

 

Jeez, Fred, on a list as long as a Ted Cruz filibuster, there's no Robert Mitchum? No Richard Widmark? No Vincent Price? No Robert Ryan? No Burt Lancaster? No Richard Conte? No Dana Andrews? No Richard Basehart? No Edmond O'Brien? No Raymond Burr? No Broderick Crawford? No Barton MacLane? No Chester Morris? No Victor Mature? No Louis Calhern? No Jack Carson? No Glenn Ford? No Ray Milland? No Lee J. Cobb? No Sterling Hayden? No Susan Hayward? No Anne Baxter? No Lauren Bacall? No Jane Greer? No Gloria Grahame? No Lizabeth Scott? And Good God, no *GLENDA??!!!*

 

Say, what's a mug or a dish gotta do to break into society these days? Dance the Continental in a teacup?

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>Jeez, Fred, on a list as long as a Ted Cruz filibuster, there's no Robert Mitchum? No Richard Widmark? No Vincent Price? No Robert Ryan? No Burt Lancaster? No Richard Conte? No Dana Andrews? No Richard Basehart? No Edmond O'Brien? No Raymond Burr? No Broderick Crawford? No Barton MacLane? No Chester Morris? No Victor Mature? No Louis Calhern? No Jack Carson? No Glenn Ford? No Ray Milland? No Lee J. Cobb? No Sterling Hayden? No Susan Hayward? No Anne Baxter? No Lauren Bacall? No Jane Greer? No Gloria Grahame? No Lizabeth Scott? And Good God, no GLENDA??!!!

 

Nice list of fine names. :)

 

Why don't you place one name after another, running down the page, and they would be easier to read. :)

 

Nyaaa, I thought of more names than you did. :)

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>I find I watch TCM less,

 

One thing that anyone who has watched the channel for many years has to understand is that there was a time when much of what TCM showed was new to many of its viewers because they were debuting films that hadn't seen been featured in an uncut, commercial free environment since they were last seen in a movie theater years ago.

 

TCM brought those films to us and they still do. But like any long-term relationship, the newness is off the vine. If a relationship is to survive long-term, change has to occur. It cannot stay the same or that relationship will die.

 

Adding to the dilemma, after years of video-tape masters being the standard-bearer for airing films, technology changed not only TCM but all of us as we embraced the digital age. The films now have to be in a digital format to be broadcast. And often, studios prefer to do restoration and preservation work before transferring a film to a digital format. It is going to take the studios a while to catch up with that just due to the cost and the size of their film libraries.

 

And lastly, the studios have all been burned by film piracy over the years by bootleg copies and Youtube. Because of that, some have a moratorium of up to year (or more) on films recently released on DVD or Blu being available to TCM to rent. Why? Because they know the films will be bootlegged or copied to Youtube from the broadcast and that cuts into the disc sales.

 

TCM has no control over that. They do not own the copyrights on the films, nor do they have access to negatives or sound elements, or previous video masters. That is all property of the studios that own the films and the studios are the ones responsible for maintaining their libraries and digitizing their libraries.

 

So, as much as we would like more films, both well-known and obscure, from the studio era to be on TCM, part of that problem is availability. If the films aren't available or if the studio has a moratorium or a movie channel of its own where they prefer to keep their well-known titles for their own channel, there isn't much that TCM can do except to keep asking.

 

Meanwhile, TCM still has 24 hours a day, every month of every year to program within their operating budget and they do so, as they always have, with a mixture of films from all eras including premieres, foreign films, repeats and original programming.

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Yes, I understand that. A lot of access is beyond TCM's control. If one is a long time viewer, eventually the bloom wears off a bit with repeat showings of films (even old favorites). Unlike others, I have no problems with TCM showing newer films. But I draw the line at commercials....

 

TCM is still the best deal out there. And I dont see anyone else coming along to rival it.

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There is a mix of old and new films today,which I can live with..... since I can't watch TCM 24/7. I tried one time, but I passed out after 72 hours. :)

 

If TCM alternated old, new, old, new, old, new, there would probably be a lot less complaining around these boards, since all of us would have a few films to watch every day and night. :)

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I'll say it again. As time passes, the cutoff year should be gradually moved up. I would be perfectly happy if they now showed a lot of '70s and early '80s films, in addition to the usual pre-1968s. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week allows for a lot of films, especially if they don't keep showing NORTH BY NORTHWEST and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY over and over again.

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*Jeez, Fred, on a list as long as a Ted Cruz filibuster, there's no Robert Mitchum? No Richard Widmark? No Vincent Price? No Robert Ryan? No Burt Lancaster? No Richard Conte? No Dana Andrews? No Richard Basehart? No Edmond O'Brien? No Raymond Burr? No Broderick Crawford? No Barton MacLane? No Chester Morris? No Victor Mature? No Louis Calhern? No Jack Carson? No Glenn Ford? No Ray Milland? No Lee J. Cobb? No Sterling Hayden? No Susan Hayward? No Anne Baxter? No Lauren Bacall? No Jane Greer? No Gloria Grahame? No Lizabeth Scott? And Good God, no GLENDA??!!!*

 

Nice list of fine names. :)

 

Well, someone had to speak up for the killers amongst us! ;)

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

One thing that anyone who has watched the channel for many years has to understand is that there was a time when much of what TCM showed was new to many of its viewers because they were debuting films that hadn't seen been featured in an uncut, commercial free environment since they were last seen in a movie theater years ago.

 

TCM brought those films to us and they still do. But like any long-term relationship, the newness is off the vine. If a relationship is to survive long-term, change has to occur. It cannot stay the same or that relationship will die.

 

Well put. During my first Oscar Month in 2010 I recorded and watched 80 movies. In Oscar 's 31 Days in 2013 I recorded 25, and most of them were second copies I wanted to get on single disks. The only cure for this sort of thing is Alzheimer's. We all want fresh blood, but the more we see, the less that's going to be fresh.

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Watching OLD CLASSIC MOVIES is a very relaxing hobby, because there is no modern stuff in the films. No cursing, not too much blood. The good guys and gals almost always win. There are no fights between dems and repubs and political crooks usually go to jail, there are no gang related drive by shootings in which the shooters get away with it. There are no serial killers where the killer kills hundreds of women and is never found.

 

 

This paragraph summed up the main reasons I enjoy watching "classic" movies. When you get into the more recent decades, those descriptions, generally, do not apply. For that reason, I am also sad about the changes to TCM.

 

Edited by: tcook on Dec 2, 2013 8:07 PM

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FredCDobbs wrote:

<< watching OLD CLASSIC MOVIES is a very relaxing hobby, because there is no modern stuff in the films. No cursing, not too much blood. The good guys and gals almost always win. There are no fights between dems and repubs and political crooks usually go to jail, there are no gang related drive by shootings in which the shooters get away with it. There are no serial killers where the killer kills hundreds of women and is never found. >>

 

There are some down to Earth, realistic films during the time. Just this past Sunday TCM showed "Captain Salvation" who got a rude awakening aboard a convict ship. "I Was A Fugitive From A Chain Gang" portrays the brutal nature of the chain gang prison system and how unfair life is.

 

"Little Big Shot" showed a gangster drive by shooting outside a cafe and the rough cruel side of gangsters who would kick a little dog to death. :(

.

Others i.e. "The Grapes of Wrath", etc.

 

The typical good guy wears white, the bad black is NOT real life. (we can only wish)

 

During the 1930's people in general wanted *Escapism* when going to the theatre, there was enough misery in real life without seeing more on the big screen.

 

There were some seedy rough film like "The Story of Temple Drake"

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> I'll say it again. As time passes, the cutoff year should be gradually moved up. I would be perfectly happy if they now showed a lot of '70s and early '80s films, in addition to the usual pre-1968s. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week allows for a lot of films, especially if they don't keep showing NORTH BY NORTHWEST and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY over and over again.

 

As far as I am concerned there should be NO cutoff year for showing certain movies from certain time periods. The original mission statement when the channel premiered in 1994 said:

 

*"Turner Classic Movies presents the greatest movies of all time, from the 1920s through the '80s--featuring the silent screen, International pictures, as well as all of Hollywood's genres--commercial-free, uninterrupted, 24-hours a day."*

 

After its 10th Anniversary in 2004 it amended the statement to include "through the '90s".
 And I am sure once 2014 rolls around the statement will be amended again to say "through the 2000's".

 

Fans of TCM who frequent these message boards have been arguing for years that showing newer, more recent movies is somehow destroying the so-called "branding" of TCM. But if they were to look at the mission statement, it is the goal of TCM to show the greatest movies of ALL time. Not just from 1920 to 1960, not just from the so-called Golden Age of Hollywood, but all movies from all time periods, or at least right now through the 1990's.

 

I firmly believe that as long as TCM can get access to films from before 1960 that this era will always be the main focus of the channel. But as I found and posted yesterday and the news from today that would indicate that 70% of all silent films have been lost (see the article below) TCM going forward will continue to have problems renting or leasing films due mainly to the fact that many older films have yet to be transferred from their original format to a digital format for viewing on TCM.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/12/04/silent-films-lost/3866383/

 

We might be in a situation that will depend on the studios taking care of their older films or at least hoping that they take care of the films like we all think they should. But as the above article states, Paramount Studios seems to be one of the major players that has not done what everyone here would probably want them to do: Preserve their older films.

 

And because of Paramount and others, like Universal, many of these older films will eventually fade away or be lost forever. This is one of the reasons TCM can NOT get the type of films that many of the die-hard fans of pre-1960 films are craving here.

 

My own opinion is that TCM should show mainly movies from the Golden Age of Hollywood. But that TCM should also show films from the current age of films, i.e., from 1970 forward and that includes films from the 2000's.

 

Fred always likes to say that these newer films are available on other cable channels. Well if most people are like me, they can only afford to have TCM and having TCM usually means a higher tier of programming. The other subscriber channels, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, The Movie Channel all are very expensive and don't always show "older" newer films. Of course there are the Encore channels as well, but they show a lot of repeats each month. They also don't really show a lot of the films that people like me would like to see.

 

Personally I do not have TCM now. I can't afford that level of programming. But I do have over 600 pre-1960 films in my library that I can watch at any time. So for me having TCM to watch will have to wait for some time, but that's okay. Bottom line, there are many post 1970 movies that are shown on TCM that would never be shown on the other subscriber channels I mentioned above.

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Dec 4, 2013 11:24 AM

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