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laurelnhardy

TCM what are you thinking???!!!

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Andy, if you're sitting around waiting for a film from 2006 to air on TCM, then it's not anything to want to see very badly. For every time slot TCM uses to air films from the last 20-30 years, that's that much less time they use for showing films from the 20s and 30s that are NOT available anywhere else and have likely NOT aired for years on TCM. They used to relegate many of these 20s and 30s films to the wee hours that even THAT was ok because we could tape them. Now many of these films are not shown at all. I watch TCM to see Alice White and Dorothy Mackaill and John Gilbert and Richard Barthelmess, not to see Kevin Spacey and Drew Barrymore films (or who ever they show from newer films).

 

Maybe TCM needs to split into 2 stations to take up the slack from HBO and SHOWTIME and NETFLIX and reserve the other channel for truly classic films.

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Do you define all films made in the 1930s as 'classic'?

 

I ask because many of these films were just cheap programmers made in a few weeks, using leftover scripts or rehashed plots. While I enjoy many of these films (especially the ones made by Warner Brothers since I liked their style of filmmaking during this period), I don't define these films as 'classic'.

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>I watch TCM to see Alice White and Dorothy Mackaill and John Gilbert and Richard Barthelmess,

 

In the last year or so I was very lucky to record THE WIDOW FROM CHICAGO, off of TCM, at about 3 o'clock in the morning. That is with cute little Alice White and Edward G Robinson before he made Little Caesar. A very good drama and pre-code and suspense film.

 

It's not available on YouTube, and I've never seen it before in my life. A really rare early and very good pre-code gangster film with a beautiful actress. That's what I want on TCM.

 

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>while they pumped multiple rounds of machine gun bullets into their chosen targets. We were so much nicer back then!

 

Back in those days, and in the 1950s when I was a kid, we played "cops and robbers" and we used plastic pistols or cheap cap guns, and we said "bang, bang, you are dead!" :) LOL

 

Now, what do kids do? They use real machine guns and real pistols to shoot real bullets and really kill each other with gang warfare. See the news reports about all the kids killed in Chicago this past year.

 

During my childhood, I didn't shoot any real gun, and I didn't kill any of my fellow class mates. It was just "play like", like "in the movies".

 

But now the kids are imitating the violent movies and the kids are killing kids with real guns and bullets.

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Andy, if you're sitting around waiting for a film from 2006 to air on TCM, then it's not anything to want to see very badly. For every time slot TCM uses to air films from the last 20-30 years, that's that much less time they use for showing films from the 20s and 30s that are NOT available anywhere else and have likely NOT aired for years on TCM. They used to relegate many of these 20s and 30s films to the wee hours that even THAT was ok because we could tape them. Now many of these films are not shown at all. I watch TCM to see Alice White and Dorothy Mackaill and John Gilbert and Richard Barthelmess, not to see Kevin Spacey and Drew Barrymore films (or who ever they show from newer films).

 

First, I'm not expecting TCM to show many 21st century films, or even that many films from after 1970. If they choose the right ones, then I look upon them as a bonus. "Classic" to me isn't just about a few decades. Reservoir Dogs would be a perfect example of a "new" movie that I was thrilled to find on the schedule; that godawful Tim Robbins/Paul Newman movie, not so much. But everyone's taste will differ on calls like that.

 

And don't get me wrong. I love Richard Barthelmess and Dorothy Mackaill and Richard Dix, and I wish they'd show more of all of them. But I'd much rather that TCM show movies like Raging Bull or Mean Streets once a year than to see Little Caesar or The Public Enemy 4 to 6 times a year. It's not that I object to the older movies, and I think they should make up about 80% of the time slots. I just wish they'd cut back on those multi-multiple showings of movies from any era and give some of the more obscure movies a chance to be seen. What I'd strongly suggest is going over the schedules as they get posted every month and mark these obscure movies for recording. That way it won't matter as much if they don't get shown again for another year or two. This is especially critical if you're like me and like foreign and silent movies, which fairly often get shown once and once only.

 

BTW since I started being hooked on TCM over four years ago, 83% of the movies I've recorded have been before 1960, and 92% have been before 1970. It's easy to pick a rather flukish period like the past couple of weeks and make too much of that, but the core of TCM continues to be the feature films of the studio era.

 

Oh, and nearly a dozen of those movies I've recorded featured Richard Barthelmess. :) I could watch Heroes For Sale and Massacre and Central Air many times over, and I'd love to see him get a SUTS day.

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drednm wrote:

<< Maybe TCM needs to split into 2 stations to take up the slack from HBO and SHOWTIME and NETFLIX and reserve the other channel for truly classic films. >>

 

AMC could had done that if the channel didn't ruined itself. IFC is fair, they show unedited modern movies but one still have to contend with commercials.

 

Channels like HBO, Starz, etc. are fine but do too many reruns.

I was hoping the FXM channel would turn out to be a replacement for FMC (I lost) but the movies are edited and has commercials. Might as well be AMC2. :(

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Very well said Andy! But like a lot of your other posts related to this topic (on multiple threads no less), I wonder if many others actual hear what you're saying.

 

Bottom line; Instead of multiple showing of the same movies, replace these with films TCM rarely shows, mostly from the studio era but also some after that.

 

PS: When I said I have seen the movies TCM is showing multiple times I didn't mean to imply that was because TCM had shown them too often. I own these movies and that is why I have seen them multiple times (since 30s WB crime movies are a favorite sub-genre of mine).

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>It's not that I object to the older movies, and I think they should make up about 80% of the time slots. I just wish they'd cut back on those multi-multiple showings of movies from any era and give some of the more obscure movies a chance to be seen.

 

How about once a year for any film?

 

We used to see INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS a couple of times a year, now we haven't seen it in a few years.

 

The Phantom Lady has been missing too. Also Ride the Pink Horse. This is a very good once a year film.

 

We don't need three Elvis salutes a year. One will do.

 

Whatever happened to HELL'S ANGELS, a really great WW I flying film?

 

What about The Whistler films? I haven't seen any in a few years. One or two a year would be good, and not at 3 AM.

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>We used to see INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS a couple of times a year, now we haven't seen it in a few years.

 

Oh, man. I can't remember the last time I saw this on TV, let alone TCM. Used to be on TV about once a year fairly regularly through the 60s & 70s, than it dropped off the map.. or maybe it fell into one of those sand traps out by the ol' rail fence. Heck.. I'd even settle for the remake - I thought it was decent enough. Mars has it now. Don't they?

 

As I mentioned in another thread a month or so ago, I'm in favor of the 2-TCM channel proposition: TCM-1 for 0-1949 (?) and TCM-2 for 1950 to ? - whatever.

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> Maybe TCM needs to split into 2 stations to take up the slack from HBO and SHOWTIME and NETFLIX and reserve the other channel for truly classic films.

 

Well for one thing this idea has been suggested several hundred times on these message boards and there really has never been an answer that was either suitable to the one asking about it nor has there ever been any real analysis performed either.

 

My own take on two channels for TCM would be that it is probably just too darn expensive to create another off-shoot of the main channel just to satisfy those who complain on almost a daily basis that too many modern films are being shown on TCM.

 

When you get right down to it, the mission statement of the channel has always indicated that the true mission of TCM is to show films from the 1920's up to and including the 1990's. As lzcutter has pointed out many times, once 2014 rolls around that mission statement will probably change to include films up to and including the 2000's.

 

So due to the original and or adjusted mission statement, the goal of TCM is to show the best films from the 20's all the way up to and including the 90's. That is a worthy goal of the channel since no other channel exists like TCM does now. And we all should be thankful for that.

 

This is not to say that TCM will stop showing the golden nuggets form before 1960. I am sure that in many months the vast majority of films will include pre 1960 films on the schedule. Other times, like the recent Story of Film series and the upcoming 31 Days of Oscar may also and have shown more recent films. This will continue. Others have indicated that they would be happy with an 80% pre 1960 schedule that would allow many more showings of pre 1960 films.

 

To me that sounds about right. But in the end it all comes down to whether or not TCM can continue to rent films from all era's and that the films be able to be shown in the first place. This is becoming harder and harder. Please read the following articles:

 

The Atlantic

*With 35mm Film Dead, Will Classic Movies Ever Look the Same Again?*

Daniel Eagan Nov 22 2012

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/11/with-35mm-film-dead-will-classic-movies-ever-look-the-same-again/265184/

 

Forbes

*For Many MIA Classic Films, Digital Era Is?Chinatown*

Dade Hayes

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dadehayes/2013/11/30/set-the-dvr-for-these-7-mid-season-tv-shows/

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I'm a little disappointed by the response of some here to *The Hudsucker Proxy* . The film is almost 20 years old now ( I know, still WAY too new for some folks) but its the Coen Brothers (one of the very few modern film makers that have any appeal to me) and its somewhat of a throwback screwball comedy/satire, even though the setting is the late 1950's. So I think it has a place on TCM's schedule, well maybe we should wait until its a little older like when its 30+ years old.

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> But now the kids are imitating the violent movies and the kids are killing kids with real guns and bullets.

 

Boy Fred, you really do paint very wide brush strokes to get your point across, even though the point you are making with the Chicago connection is really overblown wouldn't you say?

 

Yes, there is a lot of violence today. But according to the Bureau of Justice, the statistics indicate that there is less violent crime today especially firearm violence as there was in 1993.

 

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

 

Kids have always imitated violence that was on television and or appeared in the movies. This has been happening for decades.

 

But to paint with such a broad stroke as you have done completely misses the larger point..... gun violence is way down, now.

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What makes TCM a classy & classic station for me is that it often expands my horizons, shows me films that I may not have ever seen before, and gives me reasons to appreciate the different, regardless of the decade, or national origin. The Story Of Film Series has done that for me as well. it was like when I used to occassionally frequent my favorite theater on art house nights... I'd go in not knowing what to expect, and often came away with an appreciation for something different that I'd likely never have seen otherwise.

I also owe TCM for growing me into a person who appreciates different directors, as well as actors, producers and other creative persons from countries that I'd never given much thought of even having a film industry. I now enjoy watching different films of directors, producers, choreographers & actors through-out their various careers; how they adapted & grew, or at what stage they experienced that great, shooting star moment burst of light & creative genious that they may be best known for.

 

TCM is like a great family restaurant that not only offers a childs menu along with a buffet of staple family favorites but also has a seasonally changing portion of the menu that offers something old, from a different time, & exotic, from a different place, where one can sample something other than their traditional fair or favorite meatloaf.

Sometimes it is a plate that one may only want a single bite from, but sometimes one discovers a whole new enjoyable flavor that they may want to order a full course of.

 

The old movies & stars that I grew up with are like comfort food to me, I will likely always enjoy them most of all, but just as I find that different spices enhance my palatal experience, I find the same is true for me & my ecclectic taste in film. I may not want a steady stream of the exotic, the distant, or the "new," but I'm sure glad that TCM offers it to me every now & then.

 

TCM has made me a better, more accepting person. Allowing me an opportunity to see things from anothers viewpoint, and gain an appreciation for the different places that we all come from.

 

I hesitate to use the word love, but i sometimes hear myself saying "I love TCM" in the context of a conversation with someone who has no idea of the wonder that can be found in watching an "ancient" silent film, or attempting to explain that B&W, as in still photography, has so many subtle shades that can be appreciated, or that one can find a great deal of common humanity in watching a "foreign" film.

Often they look at me dumbfounded, and I then realize how far that TCM has taken me on my own personal journey in the story of film.

 

I owe TCM much. And am greatful that they have the intuitive vision & guts to carry it through, that even though I too have sometimes questioned as to where they were taking me, but in retrospect am so very glad that I went along the journey with them.

 

Yes, there are times I find some things mildly annoying with TCM, et al, but I'm willing to overlook most of these issues, hopefully without sharing too many negative comments for the greater good of the overall TCM experience.

I too, have a wish list of films that I'd like TCM to air or re-air for my own personal enjoyment, And TCM used to have a singular place on these boards for viewers to post their requests, that for a time they may have actually taken into consideration when making program choices. But I do not begrudge TCM when they show a film that I may have already seen half a dozen times or more. I understand that TCM has a big & growing family of viewers and it may be someone elses favorite that I'm watching, or not....

After all, it is unhealthy to stay glued to a television monitor 24/7 and If TCM is showing something that I may not want to watch, or may have already recorded, No need to **** & moan about it, It simply means it is time for me to do something else with my time for awhile.

 

And others have posted comments numerous times in past threads explaing the demographic proportions of TCM's programing history, the percentage of silents, foreign films, & period films from the 30's, 40's & 50's, on up to the miniscule minority of contemporary films that TCM occassionaly airs, usually in the context of an actor, director or producer they are honoring or a theme they are illustrating.

 

I recognize that TCM is part of a personal journey for all of its viewers, and not everyone is at the same place along that journey.

I often see myself at different stages within the ramblings of others. who post on these boards.

And when I stop & think that I've come about as far as I can, TCM will expand on something that I thought I already knew much about, or show me something that I never knew before, and stimulate me to seek further using additional resources. Or I'll read someone's insightful post and realize that there are those so much further traveled that I have much to look forward to and perhaps my journey will never end as long as I am allowed another breath.

 

What I very much appreciate is that for the most part, TCM appears to make every effort to show the most complete, uncut version of whatever film they show, and do so without commercial interruptions. TCM shows films from every period and sometimes these are films that cannot be seen, rented or purchased from from any other venue. TCM aggressively supports film preservation & restoration, and in their programing offer film as both entertainment & an art form.

 

A wise sage said that "you can please some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time."

With this truism in mind, I believe that TCM treads closer than anything else on air today to achieving the best of that delicate balance. And for that I am grateful.

 

Anyway, i can sometimes ramble on & on, as is obvious, but I just felt moved to endorse, in too many words, what some of you have already posted in these regards.

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>Back in those days, and in the 1950s when I was a kid, we played "cops and robbers" and we used plastic pistols or cheap cap guns, and we said "bang, bang, you are dead!" :) LOL

 

>Now, what do kids do? They use real machine guns and real pistols to shoot real bullets and really kill each other with gang warfare. See the news reports about all the kids killed in Chicago this past year.

 

>During my childhood, I didn't shoot any real gun, and I didn't kill any of my fellow class mates. It was just "play like", like "in the movies".

 

>But now the kids are imitating the violent movies and the kids are killing kids with real guns and bullets.

 

Oh Fred, that's so 90's ! That would require kids to actually leave the home. Now they just sit home turn on the xbox and fire off machine guns on a tv screen while shouting every obscenity at each other.

 

One thing I can say is in the 30's movies we don't have to see the blood and gore.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

 

On December 14, 2012, 20-year-old Adam Lanza fatally shot twenty children and six adult staff members in a mass murder at Sandy Hook Elementary School in the village of Sandy Hook in Newtown, Connecticut.[5][6] Before driving to the school, Lanza shot and killed his mother Nancy at their Newtown home.[8][11][12] As first responders arrived, he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

 

Video games

 

Police found "numerous"[176] video games in the basement of Adam Lanza's home, which was used as a gaming area, prompting a renewed debate about their effect on young people.[177][178][179] Connecticut Senator Christopher Murphy stated in January 2013 that, as well as guns, video games played a role in the shootings.

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Stephan55, that was one of the best expressed appreciations of TCM I've ever read. You can tell that a lot of thought went into it.

 

There's a Christopher Morley book, Parnassus on Wheels, about an itinerant book shop that has a sign on its door that expresses my view of TCM perfectly:

 

*"We have exactly what you want, although you may not know it."*

 

I also find that TCM is much better appreciated as a long range endeavor than as immediate gratification on any given day. Or to quote you back on yourself:

 

I hesitate to use the word love, but i sometimes hear myself saying "I love TCM" in the context of a conversation with someone who has no idea of the wonder that can be found in watching an "ancient" silent film, or attempting to explain that B&W, as in still photography, has so many subtle shades that can be appreciated, or that one can find a great deal of common humanity in watching a "foreign" film.

Often they look at me dumbfounded, and I then realize how far that TCM has taken me on my own personal journey in the story of film.

 

I owe TCM much. And am grateful that they have the intuitive vision & guts to carry it through, that even though I too have sometimes questioned as to where they were taking me, but in retrospect am so very glad that I went along the journey with them.

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"Splitting" into two channels is a lot more compliacated, and has a lot more ramifications, than you make it sound. They could always do it by dayparts on TCM, or days of the week.

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Thanks Andy,

 

"We have exactly what you want, although you may not know it."

 

I also find that TCM is much better appreciated as a long range endeavor than as immediate gratification on any given day."

 

My sentiments, exactly. :)

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> The guest programmer's choosing of two 2009 films because he chose it that way and the fact that The Holiday is being shown because it's simply a Christmas movie are no excuses for being shown on TCM. What do you think they have TBS and TNT for? Why do you think the word "classic" is spelled out in bold, capital letters under the TCM logo?

 

The following is what I wrote earlier today on the *Mourning the death of TCM as we know it...* thread. It bears repeating here due to the fact that this thread is VERY SIMILAR to that thread.

 

> I'll say it again. As time passes, the cutoff year should be gradually moved up. I would be perfectly happy if they now showed a lot of '70s and early '80s films, in addition to the usual pre-1968s. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week allows for a lot of films, especially if they don't keep showing NORTH BY NORTHWEST and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY over and over again.

 

As far as I am concerned there should be NO cutoff year for showing certain movies from certain time periods. The original mission statement when the channel premiered in 1994 said:

 

*"Turner Classic Movies presents the greatest movies of all time, from the 1920s through the '80s--featuring the silent screen, International pictures, as well as all of Hollywood's genres--commercial-free, uninterrupted, 24-hours a day."*

 

After its 10th Anniversary in 2004 it amended the statement to include "through the '90s".
 And I am sure once 2014 rolls around the statement will be amended again to say "through the 2000's".

 

Fans of TCM who frequent these message boards have been arguing for years that showing newer, more recent movies is somehow destroying the so-called "branding" of TCM. But if they were to look at the mission statement, it is the goal of TCM to show the greatest movies of ALL time. Not just from 1920 to 1960, not just from the so-called Golden Age of Hollywood, but all movies from all time periods, or at least right now through the 1990's.

 

I firmly believe that as long as TCM can get access to films from before 1960 that this era will always be the main focus of the channel. But as I found and posted yesterday and the news from today that would indicate that 70% of all silent films have been lost (see the article below) TCM going forward will continue to have problems renting or leasing films due mainly to the fact that many older films have yet to be transferred from their original format to a digital format for viewing on TCM.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/12/04/silent-films-lost/3866383/

 

We might be in a situation that will depend on the studios taking care of their older films or at least hoping that they take care of the films like we all think they should. But as the above article states, Paramount Studios seems to be one of the major players that has not done what everyone here would probably want them to do: Preserve their older films.

 

And because of Paramount and others, like Universal, many of these older films will eventually fade away or be lost forever. This is one of the reasons TCM can NOT get the type of films that many of the die-hard fans of pre-1960 films are craving here.

 

My own opinion is that TCM should show mainly movies from the Golden Age of Hollywood. But that TCM should also show films from the current age of films, i.e., from 1970 forward and that includes films from the 2000's.

 

Fred always likes to say that these newer films are available on other cable channels. Well if most people are like me, they can only afford to have TCM and having TCM usually means a higher tier of programming. The other subscriber channels, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, The Movie Channel all are very expensive and don't always show "older" newer films. Of course there are the Encore channels as well, but they show a lot of repeats each month. They also don't really show a lot of the films that people like me would like to see.

 

Personally I do not have TCM now. I can't afford that level of programming. But I do have over 600 pre-1960 films in my library that I can watch at any time. So for me having TCM to watch will have to wait for some time, but that's okay. Bottom line, there are many post 1970 movies that are shown on TCM that would never be shown on the other subscriber channels I mentioned above.

 

Edited by: fxreyman on Dec 4, 2013 11:24 AM

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