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2002-2006 films AREN'T classic movies!!!!!

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>With regards to the History Channel, do you know if their ratings and associated commercial revenue has gone down with their change in programming? That is really what matters to the owners of the station.


When Disney bought the A&E channel a few years ago they acquired the History Channel in the deal (the History Channel was owned by A&E back then).


Both were niche channels that had respectable ratings but due to the niche programming the demographics for both channels back then were more post-55 years old or older viewers than any other.


But, once Disney became the owner, they reviewed both channels and decided that the ratings could be better and one way to improve not only the ratings but also get more of the desired demographics was to offer a more varied variety of programming that would appeal to younger viewers.


Thus, both channels underwent substantial changes to their programming and the niche programming that had made the channels attractive to Disney in the first place was replaced with the programming that has led to what both channels are airing today which bares little or no relationship to its original programming.


It's one of those things that has happened to a number of networks over the last ten years as they have been bought by larger media companies.


And one of the reasons we have to be thankful that TCM (and Time Warner) don't subscribe to that thinking when it comes to programming.

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Sorry I guess this sentence confused me: "It's a subject that is rarely even discussed nowadays".


I assumed the subject was TCM trying to get access to studio-era (29 - 69) movies from studios TCM rarely, if ever, shows.

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>Yea, I know you feel TCM is now showing too many 'new films' but really you have no evidence to show that at least 70% of TCM's programming, by year, isn't studio era movies.


>Provide said evidence and I'll complain just as much as you do.



I made this list a couple of weeks ago. *January 2014* (this includes features and shorts). Anyone is free to re-count them if they want to.


1930s - 110 films


1940s - 103 films


1950s - 73 films


1960s - 68 films


1970s - 22 films


1980s - 6 films


1990s - 5 films


2000s - 1 film


2010s - 0 films



1960s through 2000s = 102 films


That's about 26% of the films made in 1960 or later.


But another problem arises when most of the newer films are shown in the daytime and prime time, while many of the old classics are shown in the middle of the night when everyone is asleep. That can run the list of 1960+ films in daytime and prime time up to 35%-40%.


And yet another problem arises when the old classics are repeated so many times, such as THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL again tonight. It was shown a few weeks ago. SUSPICION was shown two days in a row a week or so ago.


On Monday/Tue, LOVE LETTERS, a great and rarely shown film, is airing *3 AM Eastern Time*, while on Tue. FROM HERE TO ETERNITY and ON THE WATERFRONT (two frequently-aired classic films) are both being shown in *Prime Time*. Again, and again, and again. I've seen them on TCM so many times, I'll NEVER watch them again. I'm sick of them. I now hate them, whereas I used to like them. They should show in the middle of the night and LOVE LETTERS shown in Prime Time.


I'm spending many many days and nights now with the TV *turned off*, and I'm watching more old movie classics on-line, on my computer, for free, since I already have my computer service for other reasons. So I don't know how long cable/sat will be worth paying for, since TCM is/was my favorite channel. But with more newer movies shown in the daytime and Prime Time, I'm just not watching it as much as I used to, and I'm paying MORE for it every year. I'm paying MORE and receiving LESS.

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I'm not going to pay even MORE for a DVR. No thanks. I'm watching more old classics now on-line, for free. No more money for DVD recorders, DVDs, figuring out complicated schedules. No more money for cable fees DVD fees DVR fees, when the old classics should all be shown in Prime Time.

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>Or you could always sign up to the TCM streaming service.


I am signed up.


But let them show the newer movies on the streaming service, and the old classics on the TV channel, as they did originally.

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>1960s through 2000s = 102 films


Though you may not care for many of the films produced in the 1960s, the studio era was still in operation through most of the 1960s so those films shouldn't be counted in your "modern" film total, unless you break out the number of films being shown that were produced between 1968 and 1969 and count only them in your "modern" film total.


The old Production Code wasn't replaced by the new MPAA ratings system until 1968. 1968 also saw the majority of studio ownership out of the hands of the studio era moguls and under new ownership.


The number of films from the 1970s through the 2010s is 34 and the total number of all films being shown in January is 403 including 15 silent films and shorts being shown on Sunday nights this month.

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I see nothing wrong with TCM showing a movie from 2006 just as long as it's 50 yrs. from now.


Hah. Well said, laurelnhardy.


Hundreds of thousands of obscure classic movies in TCM's vault and

they're back to showing newer movies again.


Yes, isn't it a shame?


Oh well.

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> The 60s count as a classic film decade. The others (70s and onward) no, the 60s yes.


The 70's has often been referred to as "hollywood's 2nd golden age".


I count the 70's as being extremely classic and would love to see far more inclusion of 70's cinema in TCM's scheduling.

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>Though you may not care for many of the films produced in the 1960s, the studio era was still in operation through most of the 1960s


Good point, lzcutter. And technically, some studios-- like Universal-- kept the studio system in effect well beyond 1968. They used it for their film and television units. I read an article a few years ago where Sharon Gless claimed she was the last actress under the studio contract system at Universal, signed in the mid-70s. The studio quickly put her into several high profile television series like Switch in the mid-70s and House Calls in the early 80s (which proves the studio system actually extended to the 1980s because Gless was still under a multi-year contract in 1981).


Yesterday TCM aired Universal's THE HINDENBURG from 1975. Actors in minor roles, like Kip Niven and Colby Chester, were being groomed for bigger things and part of the studio's contract system. Director Robert Wise was required to use them in his film. A lot of these individuals would appear in the AIRPORT sequels and in Hitchcock's last films at Universal, too.

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>The 70's has often been referred to as "hollywood's 2nd golden age".


>I count the 70's as being extremely classic




I totally agree with you. It was a wonderful few years of film making. I saw many of the films on their original theatrical releases. The films often dealt with adult themes ( *An Unmarried Woman*, *Coming Home* ), dealt with important subject matters of the time ( *All the President's Men*, *Apocalypse Now*, *The French Connection*, etc). Some were nostalgic ( *The Sting*, *The Way We Were*, *American Grafitti* ) and filmmakers didn't shy away from politics or dark themes ( *The Parallax View*, *Night Moves*, *Chinatown*, *The Godfather* and *Godfather II*, etc).


I know that some posters don't care for many of the films from back then but I think a number of films from back then (some 40+ years old now) are classics and I enjoy them.


And many of them, due to their age, don't appear on the premium channels or other movie channels very often.

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I've seen so many of these kinds of threads lately, questioning TCM's programming choices, as well as disenchantment with the vintage of some of it's films.


I think TCM should take all this feedback into account, along with any private messages it may receive from viewers on these issues when making future programming choices. If the preponderance of feedback points a certain way, they should take it into consideration.


I absolutely don't wish to weigh in on what is a "classic" film, or say what a "cut-off" date should be for classic vs. "non-classic"! I do believe that old films are a respite and escape from the modern day world for many. Watching them allows one to get out of the present, with it's contemporary cares and concerns. The older the film, the more people feel this. The more recent the decade of film origin, the greater grows the discomfort of many TCM viewers.


By now, TCM must have some sense of how much negative viewer reaction goes with each decade. The problem with showing films made within the last 10 years (even 20 for many), is that they don't furnish the escape from the present that many TCM viewers are looking for. They could be very good films and have a lot of redeeming qualities, but they don't do it for many viewers like say, a 1930's studio film.


Some have experienced frustration with the appearance of threads such as this. Yet I feel they are the inevitable byproduct of certain programming choices that the channel makes. However much some may want to take issue with, and debate with such complainants, I say such threads will continue to appear. The frequency with which they will appear is a function of certain programming decisions.


Many classic film fans are a very passionate bunch, as can often be seen on these community boards. Do anything to make them feel you might be changing course or format, and they will scream bloody murder. If TCM is trying to attract a different and younger demographic by showing post year 2000 films, then I hope they know what they are doing. They will have to weigh that against the hard core fan base that wants nothing to do with such recent films.


I do have to acknowledge when TCM does something right (by my tastes) and shows it's commitment to being a classic movie channel! Thursday and Friday of this past week were all films from the 20's and 30's, including a 24 hour Joan Crawford marathon! It was especially wonderful to see really old films shown in prime time, instead of being shown at 5 AM.




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> And yet another problem arises when the old classics are repeated so many times, such as THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL again tonight.


As far as I'm aware, they aren't currently making any more pre-1960 movies. Perhaps you might want to get into your DeLorean and go back to the 1930s to make some new pre-1960 stuff?


Eventually, they're going to have to repeat the pre-1960 stuff, because there's a finite amount of it. And when you complain, "Oh, that pre-1960 movie is a repeat", it gives the distinct impression that no matter what TCM does you're going to complain.

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>But the method TCM is using now to solve this problem of young people not likeing black and white is to show MODERN COLOR FILMS in prime time and hide the black in white old classics in the middle of the night while the kiddies are asleep.


I can't believe you wrote that. Well, I do believe it, but wow-- you make it sound like there is a conspiracy afoot at TCM to get rid of classic films.

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>If TCM is trying to attract a different and younger demographic by showing post year 2000 films, then I hope they know what they are doing.


But they aren't. That's the usual go to position by posters here theorizing why a film from the 2000s is on the schedule.


But TCM has publicly stated that they aren't chasing a younger demographic, that their demographics actually include people of all ages, including young people:


"We're not trying to reach a broad audience. We?re not trying to maximize the demo. We?re not trying to get the 18-34, whatever it is. There?s none of that that?s considered at all." -Charles Tabesh, Sr VP of Programming.


The next day, Jeff Gregor (TCM General Manager) followed up on this, telling attendees that TCM had done ?some demographic work? recently and discovered some things about audience composition.


"I don't want to say it was a surprise," he said. "But two-thirds of our audience is 18-54."


You can see those young faces at the Festivals, at the Cruises and at TCM events around the country. You see those young faces in the promos on the channels and in the Fan Retrospectives. You see those young faces in the Fan Programmers picked for the 15th anniversary and you will likely see some in the Fan Programmers picked for the 20th anniversary. And you see some of those young people here at TCM City.


The reason the films from the 2000s are on the schedule is because they fit into the channel's long-standing programming philosophy. TCM celebrates films from all decades with the bulk of the programming being a steady focus on the studio era films.


When they first debuted twenty years ago, they included films from the 1980s in their programming philosophy. . When they celebrated their 10th anniversary, the included films from the 1990s in their programming philosophy and as they turn the 20th anniversary corner, it's not a leap of logic for them to include films from the 2000s in that programming philosophy.


But, the bulk of the programming remains, as it always has, on the studio era films.


This article should be a sticky:



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>A finite amount? There were so many movies made in the '30s that TCM could show a different one in each time slot for the next 30 years without running out.


While there were many, many films produced during the studio era TCM does not have access to all of them.


TCM does not own those films, the studios do and TCM is dependent upon the studios to make those films available in a digital format so that they can lease them.


The studios vaults are filled with films that have yet to be transferred to digital. Given the sheer size of some of the film libraries, it could be many, many years before they are. The cost of doing so, especially if it includes preservation and restoration work, is not cheap.


The return on the investment when released to DVD or Blu is not always enough to cover the costs that went into the transfer.


Like all businesses, studios' film libraries have yearly budgets for this work and if they have an advocate who understands the importance of doing the work, that certainly helps. Warners and to a lesser degree Fox and Sony understand that. Doesn't mean that they are able to get more yearly budget money, but they understand and they work with TCM to try and get certain titles transferred so that the films can be leased to TCM.


So, there are a number of reasons why TCM often can't lease titles that posters here are anxious to see.


This article explains it better than I can:



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I am in the 18-54 demographic. And I love it when Robert Osborne, in his 80s, sits down and interviews Luise Rainer, in her 100s. That's the great thing about this Channel! It is for all of us!


I am in the 1-110 demographic, and I approve this message. :)

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Well you posted: "It's a subject that is rarely even discussed nowadays".


But it appears you're not willing to tell anyone what this 'subject' is.


I just find that a funny way to have a discussion. Also note that you're 'assume' comment could be taken as an insult IF I was as thin skinned as some around here.


Have a nice day!

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> A finite amount?


Technically, they're limited by the number of atoms in the universe, which is not infinite. ;-)


> There were so many movies made in the '30s that TCM could show a different one in each time slot for the next 30 years without running out.


12 films a day x 365 days a year = 4380 films, x 30 = 131400 films. Plus a few for leap days. :-)


Seriously, though, there is only so much from the 1930s that TCM can get. Either Universal doesn't normally like to let TCM run the old 1930s Universal movies, or Columbia movies haven't been converted to a playable format (heaven knows we've seen enough Columbias pulled from the schedule for presumably that reason), or like *Letty Lynton* there are rights problems. More generally, there are going to be fewer and fewer premieres from the 30s, if only because TCM is going to wind up going through every single movie in the old Turner library (MGM/WB/RKO) from that decade.


I wish I could find the thread I wrote in last year where I argued that TCM wants to keep us diehards, and bring in new fans because eventually we're all going to die and need to be replaced as TCM viewers. (That's an overstatement, but I hope you all get the point.) In asking the question of how we find those people who might be fans of, say, Busby Berkerely musicals and not know it, or the glamorous Jean Harlow, or what not, without yet knowing it, there are too many people here who would answer that question with, "I don't care. Just give me what +I+ want."

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Please take this in the right vein but no TV station, magazine, newspaper, or radio station can be for ?all of us'. In fact the core of the debate here is that some feel TCM is trying to appeal to a wider audience and that is upsetting to those that feel TCM shouldn?t try to appeal to ?all of us? but instead to a very select group.


In the future when all media is provided via the Internet there will be so much choice that each person can get what they want. I see this now with radio over the Internet. I listen to JazzRatio.com. They have over 20 different breakdowns of jazz music; Piano jazz, big band jazz, easy listening jazz, guitar jazz, Small combo jazz, etc? Something similar will occur with movies; 30?s movies, 30?s Comedies, 40?s War Films, 50?s Noir, etc?

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