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TCM and Other Sources for Classic Film

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Thanks. LOL I think we're going to eventually surpass Fred's youtube thread... :)

 

NipkowDisc's 253 posts about wanting to see 'Revenge of the Creature' should help a little.

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Nipkow,

 

What is happening is that this is a very simple thread. Another channel offering classics is competing with TCM for some of its viewers. But instead of letting it go at that, we have these loyal TCM viewers (who actually do watch FXM Retro and other competitors but are not admitting it in this thread) trying to downplay the importance of ME-TV. This discussion leads us to predictable places when the knee-jerk responses are usually the same time and again in various threads.

 

When I point this out, it invariably leads to weird joking, a manipulation of 'new' data, or personal attacks.

 

We do know that THE INVISIBLE WOMAN did chart rather high (at number two on Saturday among the most-searched titles). And I am sure that all three CREATURE films during the upcoming Saturdays will chart, too. So we have nothing to be worried about or insecure about, because again, this thread's premise is simple and accurate.

 

Also, when a poster says that this past weekend's Essential is number two for two days in a row, he is neglecting to admit that the previous argument that people only look up titles they are not familiar with, is tossed completely out the window. Without a doubt, many know about Taylor & Burton's VIRGINIA WOOLF.

 

So when the arguments get put into the thread, they eventually cancel each other out. And ME-TV and Svengoolie keep humming along attracting an audience. Mark my words, people will do their best to rip this post apart to try and salvage their own arguments but we know the CREATURE films will do very well no matter what, and so will the other Universal horror classics that continue to air on ME-TV. There is an audience for these films, and if the titles cannot be found on TCM, then they will be found wherever they are playing (on a competing network or internet platform).

TB,

 

First of all, while I am a loyal TCM viewer, I am not an apologist for the station; there are many things I think, even wish, they would change or do differently. Also, yes I watch other channels, and have never tried to hide that. I watch MeTV on occasion, and yes I enjoy the Creature movie as well as other 50s sci fi.

 

The issue here is that a daily Top Ten list of the Movie titles most searched, which is unscientific,.inaccurate (it has listed the same.title twice).and incomplete (it regularly has a blank space for a missing title), is used to come up with a dubious conclusion, such as the.one this thread is named for. This was because the TCM essential last week did not make this list, while the MeTV Svengoolie movie got more people searching that title. So, if that is how this conclusion was determined, then I simply pointed out that by that criteria used, this week it didn't happen, as the essential title has charted at or near the top for the last three days, while the other one went in high, then disappeared. That it was a comedy seems beside the point. No sweeping conclusions, and subsequent pronouncements here, need be made. It is what it is. One day somebody would rather see a movie on one channel, another day they'll watch some other channel.

 

As for the essential WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF, that it has made thé top ten list in no way negates the point made about more well known or played TCM titles are not searched because of their familiarity. You can more plausibly surmise that even with it's familiarity by many, who had no need to search it, there were that many more new viewers of this movie that were intrigued enough to want to know more about it.

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TB,

 

First of all, while I am a loyal TCM viewer, I am not an apologist for the station; there are many things I think, even wish, they would change or do differently. Also, yes I watch other channels, and have never tried to hide that. I watch MeTV on occasion, and yes I enjoy the Creature movie as well as other 50s sci fi.

To piggy back off of what Arturo said, I don't think that just because we're loyal TCM viewers, we're not allowed to watch other channels.  I doubt anyone is pretending to be devout TCM viewers when in reality, they're getting their "fix" from a variety of sources.  If TCM isn't airing something I want to watch and I see something on Me-TV or Antenna TV or any other channel that occasionally features older films, then I'm going to watch it.  It doesn't mean that I'm turning my back on TCM and giving my loyalty to someone else-- it just means that I'm utilizing the satellite package that I'm paying for.  Most people here, I imagine, have a cable/satellite package carrying a variety of channels.  Why wouldn't they watch movies on multiple channels?

 

Just because one week, during one timeslot, people chose to watch something on ME-TV over the TCM offering, does not mean that TCM is at risk of losing the classic film market.  ME-TV, Antenna TV and other channels of that ilk all happen to occasionally feature classic films; but their real niche is in the classic television market.  Their direct competition is TVLand, which frankly isn't any real competition at all.  That channel is terrible-- a complete 180 from what it was when it originally debuted in the mid-90s. 

 

Isn't the whole point of these boards to discuss movies/actors/directors/etc. things that relate specifically to movies?  Obviously TCM programming and channel-related things are discussed here too; but why does it matter where someone watched something?  I'm sure for most everyone here, TCM is their primary source to see classic films; but I don't think it has to be the only source. 

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Isn't the whole point of these boards to discuss movies/actors/directors/etc. things that relate specifically to movies? 

 

BRAVA !!!!!!

 

==

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Anybody in the upstate NY area that gets Time Warner Cable, unlike ME-TV, Get-TV is exclusively old movies, its my go to channel when TCM is showing stuff I'm not interested in. Check it out.

 

http://get.tv/

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Anybody in the upstate NY area that gets Time Warner Cable, unlike ME-TV, Get-TV is exclusively old movies, its my go to channel when TCM is showing stuff I'm not interested in. Check it out.

 

http://get.tv/

Yup, I mentioned GetTV in another post. Columbia movies, aren't they? Trouble is, it's chock-a-block with commercials.

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Tcm certainly ain't no source for Revenge of the Creature or The Creature Walks Among Us.  Why must tcm ignore so many of the Universal-International favorites many of us grew up watching like This Island Earth and The Monolith Monsters?

If Me-TV has first divs that's okay by me. I'll just watch' em there. :)

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I think a few posters are trying to backtrack or do a bit of damage control with their recent replies in the thread. It does not surprise me when I see which posters have clicked 'like.'

 

I knew the argument would try to go in the direction of wanting to be able to watch TCM's competitors while still jumping to TCM's defense. You know, the old have your cake and eat it.

 

And nobody said a poster couldn't watch TCM's rivals. We cannot dictate which stations people watch, that is silly.

 

But to act like it's wrong to post about ME-TV cutting in on TCM's audience while secretly changing the channel yourself is (cue the definition) hypocrisy.

 

I am glad we are being honest in the thread now. :)

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I think a few posters are trying to backtrack or do a bit of damage control with their recent replies in the thread. It does not surprise me when I see which posters have clicked 'like.'

 

I knew the argument would try to go in the direction of wanting to be able to watch TCM's competitors while still jumping to TCM's defense. You know, the old have your cake and eat it.

 

And nobody said a poster couldn't watch TCM's rivals. We cannot dictate which stations people watch, that is silly.

 

But to act like it's wrong to post about ME-TV cutting in on TCM's audience while secretly changing the channel yourself is (cue the definition) hypocrisy.

 

I am glad we are being honest in the thread now. :)

Yeah, like some keep mentioning suggest-a-movie. I would suggest  :D the feature is worthless because I do not believe tcm programmers have ever made a single scheduling decision based on it. Maybe that's cynical but that's what I think. Tcm is scheduling films according to them, not us:)

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To piggy back off of what Arturo said, I don't think that just because we're loyal TCM viewers, we're not allowed to watch other channels.  I doubt anyone is pretending to be devout TCM viewers when in reality, they're getting their "fix" from a variety of sources.  If TCM isn't airing something I want to watch and I see something on Me-TV or Antenna TV or any other channel that occasionally features older films, then I'm going to watch it.  It doesn't mean that I'm turning my back on TCM and giving my loyalty to someone else-- it just means that I'm utilizing the satellite package that I'm paying for.  Most people here, I imagine, have a cable/satellite package carrying a variety of channels.  Why wouldn't they watch movies on multiple channels?

 

Just because one week, during one timeslot, people chose to watch something on ME-TV over the TCM offering, does not mean that TCM is at risk of losing the classic film market.  ME-TV, Antenna TV and other channels of that ilk all happen to occasionally feature classic films; but their real niche is in the classic television market.  Their direct competition is TVLand, which frankly isn't any real competition at all.  That channel is terrible-- a complete 180 from what it was when it originally debuted in the mid-90s. 

 

Isn't the whole point of these boards to discuss movies/actors/directors/etc. things that relate specifically to movies?  Obviously TCM programming and channel-related things are discussed here too; but why does it matter where someone watched something?  I'm sure for most everyone here, TCM is their primary source to see classic films; but I don't think it has to be the only source. 

 

I think you are missing the point out this thread and as TopBilled said it really is a very simple point,  but also an important one:

 

TCM didn't gain access to certain films from certain studios.    One key example of this is early Universal horror films.  For years now many if not most users of this forum have made comments that they wished TCM would gain access to those films.   For whatever reason TCM didn't.

 

Now another station has gained access to those films.    Something similar is also occuring with stations like MOVIES.  

 

To me the open question is how many out in the viewing public are turning to these stations for movies instead of TCM?   

 

Yea, of course TCM still shows more pre-code and production code movies then any other station AND with no commercials.   But these other networks are drawing aways some viewers.    I know I'm one of them.   MOVIES now is about 1\5 of my viewing for movies now.   i.e. my TCM to MOVIES ratio is around 4 to 1.  

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  MOVIES now is about 1\5 of my viewing for movies now.   i.e. my TCM to MOVIES ratio is around 5 to 1.  

Well, actually, those two statements do not agree. If you watch 1/5 MOVIES, and you are implying the rest of your viewing for movies is TCM, then that means you watch 4/5 TCM, which makes the ratio of TCM to MOVIES 4 to 1.

 

But that's an honest mistake, not like some of the other mathematical conclusions being drawn in this thread. Hilarious ones, actually. I will share these with my students in the fall in my quantitative reasoning classes.

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I think you are missing the point out this thread and as TopBilled said it really is a very simple point,  but also an important one:

 

TCM didn't gain access to certain films from certain studios.    One key example of this is early Universal horror films.  For years now many if not most users of this forum have made comments that they wished TCM would gain access to those films.   For whatever reason TCM didn't.

 

Now another station has gained access to those films.    Something similar is also occuring with stations like MOVIES.  

 

To me the open question is how many out in the viewing public are turning to these stations for movies instead of TCM?   

 

Yea, of course TCM still shows more pre-code and production code movies then any other station AND with no commercials.   But these other networks are drawing aways some viewers.    I know I'm one of them.   MOVIES now is about 1\5 of my viewing for movies now.   i.e. my TCM to MOVIES ratio is around 5 to 1.  

Yeah, like a few months ago tcm aired Mister 880 with Edmund Gwenn, Burt Lancaster and Dorothy Maguire but not before I had seen it a month or so before that on MOVIES!  :) 

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I think you are missing the point out this thread and as TopBilled said it really is a very simple point,  but also an important one:

 

TCM didn't gain access to certain films from certain studios.    One key example of this is early Universal horror films.  For years now many if not most users of this forum have made comments that they wished TCM would gain access to those films.   For whatever reason TCM didn't.

 

Now another station has gained access to those films.    Something similar is also occuring with stations like MOVIES.  

 

To me the open question is how many out in the viewing public are turning to these stations for movies instead of TCM?   

 

Yea, of course TCM still shows more pre-code and production code movies then any other station AND with no commercials.   But these other networks are drawing aways some viewers.    I know I'm one of them.   MOVIES now is about 1\5 of my viewing for movies now.   i.e. my TCM to MOVIES ratio is around 5 to 1.  

Excellent post. Thanks for a logical post. I think I said somewhere else around here that Retroflex and Encore Westerns are actually drawing me away from TCM, though I still do watch TCM quite a bit.

 

But when I see something like SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE MATCHMAKER and KING CREOLE on Retroflex with perfect prints and no commercials, you can bet I am right there watching it. In fact, Retroflex is becoming my go-to for Paramount gems; ME-TV is becoming my go-to for those classic horror gems from Universal (even with commercials); Encore Westerns is becoming my go-to for all those great Columbia B westerns that TCM does not show; and with FLIX I am getting some British gems like THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EARNEST starring Michael Redgrave and Margaret Rutherford that TCM again does not play.

 

So what am I using TCM for-- the occasional titles in the Turner Library that are not overplayed or that I do not have a copy of in my collection. And I am using TCM when they have a knowledgeable guest host who has first-hand accounts of the making of a classic movie (like Mitzi Gaynor, Dolores Hart, Shirley Jones and Robert Wagner). 

 

If we look at what I have just written, TCM is competing with several other classic movie channels for my attention. Not to mention that they are competing with Netflix (where I watch Republic films) and ClassicFlix (for titles thru the Fox Cinema Archives) as well as youtube and the Internet Archive (where I can find low-budget hits in the public domain). 

 

Anyone who says TCM is not changing to keep up (translation: to keep my attention and business, as well as the attention and business of other viewers) and can prove TCM is not changing is ultimately proving that TCM is losing relevance when it comes to how and where we now get our classic movies from studios that TCM does not broadcast.

 

TCM is not the only game in town, and we all know it never was, but increasingly it is becoming more evident just how crowded the playing field is-- and what TCM has to do to step up and stay relevant. 

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Excellent post. Thanks for a logical post. I think I said somewhere else around here that Retroflex and Encore Westerns are actually drawing me away from TCM, though I still do watch TCM quite a bit.

 

But when I see something like SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE MATCHMAKER and KING CREOLE on Retroflex with perfect prints and no commercials, you can bet I am right there watching it. In fact, Retroflex is becoming my go-to for Paramount gems; ME-TV is becoming my go-to for those classic horror gems from Universal (even with commercials); Encore Westerns is becoming my go-to for all those great Columbia B westerns that TCM does not show; and with FLIX I am getting some British gems like THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EARNEST starring Michael Redgrave and Margaret Rutherford that TCM again does not play.

 

So what am I using TCM for-- the occasional titles in the Turner Library that are not overplayed or that I do not have a copy of in my collection. And I am using TCM when they have a knowledgeable guest host who has first-hand accounts of the making of a classic movie (like Mitzi Gaynor, Dolores Hart, Shirley Jones and Robert Wagner). 

 

If we look at what I have just written, TCM is competing with several other classic movie channels for my attention. Not to mention that they are competing with Netflix (where I watch Republic films) and ClassicFlix (for titles thru the Fox Cinema Archives) as well as youtube and the Internet Archive (where I can find low-budget hits in the public domain). 

 

Anyone who says TCM is not changing to keep up (translation: to keep my attention and business, as well as the attention and business of other viewers) and can prove TCM is not changing is ultimately proving that TCM is losing relevance when it comes to how and where we now get our classic movies from studios that TCM does not broadcast.

 

TCM is not the only game in town, and we all know it never was, but increasingly it is becoming more evident just how crowded the playing field is-- and what TCM has to do to step up and stay relevant. 

Yeah, like what's the deal with tcm's upper echelon, TopBilled? Is it that they think the cinematic universe begins and ends with the Turner library? It worked for 20 years but times change. Svengoolie has the universal films. Wasn't tcm interested? I would submit they should have been.   :D

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There are some Universal-International films that tcm does routinely air like All That Heaven allows, Magnificent Obsession and Written on the Wind. Your Rock Hudson-Douglas Sirk variety. A pity tcm programmers don't exactly have the same regard for all the UI science fiction classics.

2ib2nm0.jpg

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Time to start a new Topic!  This one no longer has anything to do with MeTV!

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Time to start a new Topic! 

Well, here's an idea. Since we have a "like button," can we please have a "dislike" button? If that won't work, can we have different degrees of like, like "really really like," "more or less like," "somewhat like," "like with some reservations," "like better than having hot wax poured into my nostrils," etc. I mean, like, that would work. Or, like, perhaps we could have a likert scale (yes, there is such a thing), and assign every post like a whole number from 0 to 10, with 10 meaning "fantastic job, keep up the good work" and 0 meaning, like "complete BS."

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Hmmmm....so Rich. Question here:

 

Do you think there could ALSO be some kind of button people could press that would tell the poster they're thinkin' somethin' such as:

 

"I think you're basically just stating your same premise and/or opinion over and over again but just using a slightly different selection of words each time." ?

 

(...yeah, I know...kind of a long and drawn-out thought for just one little button, huh) ;)

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Well, here's an idea. Since we have a "like button," can we please have a "dislike" button? If that won't work, can we have different degrees of like, like "really really like," "more or less like," "somewhat like," "like with some reservations," "like better than having hot wax poured into my nostrils," etc. I mean, like, that would work. Or, like, perhaps we could have a likert scale (yes, there is such a thing), and assign every post like a counting number from 0 to 10, with 10 meaning "fantastic job, keep up the good work" and 0 meaning, like "complete BS."

Really, Really Like This , 10+ :D

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But when I see something like SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE MATCHMAKER and KING CREOLE on Retroflex with perfect prints and no commercials, you can bet I am right there watching it. In fact, Retroflex is becoming my go-to for Paramount gems; ME-TV is becoming my go-to for those classic horror gems from Universal (even with commercials); Encore Westerns is becoming my go-to for all those great Columbia B westerns that TCM does not show; and with FLIX I am getting some British gems like THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EARNEST starring Michael Redgrave and Margaret Rutherford that TCM again does not play.

 

So what am I using TCM for-- the occasional titles in the Turner Library that are not overplayed or that I do not have a copy of in my collection. And I am using TCM when they have a knowledgeable guest host who has first-hand accounts of the making of a classic movie (like Mitzi Gaynor, Dolores Hart, Shirley Jones and Robert Wagner). 

 

If we look at what I have just written, TCM is competing with several other classic movie channels for my attention.

 

Just for grins, I went down to look for Retroflex on my TV, where Fios is my provider.  I quickly discovered three salient facts:

 

1. Their schedule is very repetitive, with some selections were being played as many as 3 or 4 times in the next few days.

 

2.  Nearly all of the titles I found had played on TCM, and I already had either recorded them or I never wanted them to begin with.  (King Creole?  No thanks.)

 

3. When I actually tried to tune in to the channel, I discovered that it's part of a premium package, just like HBO and Encore and Sundance.  Whereas at least on Fios, TCM comes with the lower priced package.

 

If that's "competition" for TCM, it's certainly of a very limited nature:  Limited to those who can afford the extra charges, and limited to those who don't mind all the repetition, which is infinitely greater than TCM at its worst.

 

Oh, and BTW, do they also show uninterrupted, commercial-free silent and/or foreign films?  That's not a rhetorical question. Where else other than TCM can you find Lon Chaney, Louise Brooks, Toshiro Mifune or Jeanne Moreau on your TV?  If there are any such networks, I'd sure love to know about them. :)

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Just for grins, I went down to look for Retroflex on my TV, where Fios is my provider.  I quickly discovered three salient facts:

 

1. Their schedule is very repetitive, with some selections were being played as many as 3 or 4 times in the next few days.

 

2.  Nearly all of the titles I found had played on TCM, and I already had either recorded them or I never wanted them to begin with.  (King Creole?  No thanks.)

 

3. When I actually tried to tune in to the channel, I discovered that it's part of a premium package, just like HBO and Encore and Sundance.  Whereas at least on Fios, TCM comes with the lower priced package.

 

If that's "competition" for TCM, it's certainly of a very limited nature:  Limited to those who can afford the extra charges, and limited to those who don't mind all the repetition, which is infinitely greater than TCM at its worst.

 

Oh, and BTW, do they also show uninterrupted, commercial-free silent and/or foreign films?  That's not a rhetorical question. Where else other than TCM can you find Lon Chaney, Louise Brooks, Toshiro Mifune or Jeanne Moreau on your TV?  If there are any such networks, I'd sure love to know about them. :)

This type of post is part of the problem..showing that we cannot have a productive open-minded discussion without the sarcasm and attacks that are fast becoming so prevalent on these boards. The fact that the word very was highlighted in bold supports this statement. I sincerely doubt the above poster studied the schedules for Multiplex, Retroplex and Indieplex all the way out to September 6th, because that would take a lot of time and it would lead the poster to understand that there are many Paramount gems that are available to viewers that TCM does not air.

 

When we get to the end of the post, we are asked a question and told it is not rhetorical, indicating that the poster knows the entire business in the preceding paragraphs was not at all serious and jokey or mostly uninformed. Also, the part about how much those three channels cost can obviously vary by provider, but did the poster take that into consideration?  That's not a rhetorical question. If there is a better post that can be made besides the one I just quoted above, I'd sure love to know about it.

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But when I see something like SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE MATCHMAKER and KING CREOLE on Retroflex with perfect prints and no commercials, you can bet I am right there watching it. In fact, Retroflex is becoming my go-to for Paramount gems; ME-TV is becoming my go-to for those classic horror gems from Universal (even with commercials); Encore Westerns is becoming my go-to for all those great Columbia B westerns that TCM does not show; and with FLIX I am getting some British gems like THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EARNEST starring Michael Redgrave and Margaret Rutherford that TCM again does not play.

 

So what am I using TCM for-- the occasional titles in the Turner Library that are not overplayed or that I do not have a copy of in my collection. And I am using TCM when they have a knowledgeable guest host who has first-hand accounts of the making of a classic movie (like Mitzi Gaynor, Dolores Hart, Shirley Jones and Robert Wagner). 

 

If we look at what I have just written, TCM is competing with several other classic movie channels for my attention.

 

Just for grins, I went down to look for Retroflex on my TV, where Fios is my provider.  I quickly discovered three salient facts:

 

1. Their schedule is very repetitive, with some selections were being played as many as 3 or 4 times in the next few days.

 

2.  Nearly all of the titles I found had played on TCM, and I already had either recorded them or I never wanted them to begin with.  (King Creole?  No thanks.)

 

3. When I actually tried to tune in to the channel, I discovered that it's part of a premium package, just like HBO and Encore and Sundance.  Whereas at least on Fios, TCM comes with the lower priced package.

 

If that's "competition" for TCM, it's certainly of a very limited nature:  Limited to those who can afford the extra charges, and limited to those who don't mind all the repetition, which is infinitely greater than TCM at its worst.

 

Oh, and BTW, do they also show uninterrupted, commercial-free silent and/or foreign films?  That's not a rhetorical question. Where else other than TCM can you find Lon Chaney, Louise Brooks, Toshiro Mifune or Jeanne Moreau on your TV?  If there are any such networks, I'd sure love to know about them. :)

 

These other stations are competition to TCM (i.e. they pull viewers from TCM),  but yea,  it is of a very limited nature.  

 

But one point is clear:   if a station is showing a movie one really wants to see,  that TCM isn't showning (or hasn't shown for years),   one is likely to seek out that station (or purchase the movie if it is available).    But yea the rotation of movies is very limtied on these stations.     

 

So does TCM have any reason to be concerned?   I have no idea.  But some concern (even if unfounded) by TCM execs would help us TCM viewers;  e.g.  if the concern about losing viewers motivates TCM to lease more movies from outside the Turner Library,  that is a big win for us TCM viewers.         

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Hmmmm....so Rich. Question here:

 

Do you think there could ALSO be some kind of button people could press that would tell the poster they're thinkin' somethin' such as:

 

"I think you're basically just stating your same premise and/or opinion over and over again but just using a slightly different selection of words each time." ?

 

(...yeah, I know...kind of a long and drawn-out thought for just one little button, huh) ;)

Good idea, Dargo. How about one for:

 

"...you're trying to tell other posters how to post and you're not allowing freedom of expression or freedom of speech except to those who completely and utterly agree with you and if anyone doesn't love everything and anything about TCM watch out"?

 

Can we have one like that?

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Good idea, Dargo. How about one for:

 

"...you're trying to tell other posters how to post and you're not allowing freedom of expression or freedom of speech except to those who completely and utterly agree with you and if anyone doesn't love everything and anything about TCM watch out"?

 

Can we have one like that?

Brilliant. 

 

The fact that we have posters who cannot let a comment stand about ME-TV siphoning off some viewers shows that there is little or no tolerance for non-TCM related movie viewing, which is ironic when many of these people admit in other places that they do not watch TCM 24-7.

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The fact that we have posters who cannot let a comment stand about ME-TV siphoning off some viewers shows that there is little or no tolerance for non-TCM related movie viewing, which is ironic when many of these people admit in other places that they do not watch TCM 24-7.

Straw man argument. Thanks for providing another example for my class. :D

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