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Actors Whose Images/Personas Have Not Aged Well


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I think Bette Davis looks great in ALL ABOUT EVE (AndyM108 wrote she didn't reach "total frumpiness"  until ALL ABOUT EVE).  Her characters did not call for her to be glamorous.  I like Stanwyck's looks, too (my favorite actress with Bette #2), and both she and Theresa Harris are very pretty in BABY FACE.  It is shameful that Black actors and actresses couldn't get better roles back in those days.  Every once in a while you'll come across Black characters in early cinema who aren't maids or butlers and it it quite refreshing and surprising (case in point if memory serves me correctly:  SAFE IN HELL).  I agree Roz Russell is pretty but I really like Norma Shearer's looks, especially in the early '30s.  Minor correction to Dargo:  Melissa McCarthy has won one leading actress in a comedy Emmy (Mike & Molly) thus far.  I like Melissa but sometimes I think she is trying too hard to be a female Fatty Arbuckle.

 

Black actors where not cast mostly because white auidence wouldn't go to movies that featured black actors, especially in some parts of the USA.    So I can understand why studios wouldn't cast them, since making a movie is about making money.

 

So to me the people practicing the shameful behavior were the people in the general movie going public that wouldn't watch black entertainer.     

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Black actors where not cast mostly because white auidence wouldn't go to movies that featured black actors, especially in some parts of the USA.    So I can understand why studios wouldn't cast them, since making a movie is about making money.

 

So to me the people practicing the shameful behavior were the people in the general movie going public that wouldn't watch black entertainer.

 

As well as the writers, producers, directors, etc. who invested in and perpetuated the stereotypes.

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As well as the writers, producers, directors, etc. who invested in and perpetuated the stereotypes.

 

Perpeturating stereotypes is a different topic then black actors not being cast for roles. 

 

But,  yes,  writers, producers and director did perpetuate stereotypes and when a black was cast for a role most of the time it was a stereotyped role.    To me, the top grossing black producer\director, Tyler Perry,   movies are full of stereotyped roles,  with one of his favorites being the angry black women unable to control herself.     

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Perpeturating stereotypes is a different topic then black actors not being cast for roles.

 

But, yes, writers, producers and director did perpetuate stereotypes and when a black was cast for a role most of the time it was a stereotyped role. To me, the top grossing black producer\director, Tyler Perry, movies are full of stereotyped roles, with one of his favorites being the angry black women unable to control herself.

 

Sometimes, the level at which the audience would suspend their disbelief, especially in terms of race, is almost too crazy to believe.

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Perpeturating stereotypes is a different topic then black actors not being cast for roles. 

 

But,  yes,  writers, producers and director did perpetuate stereotypes and when a black was cast for a role most of the time it was a stereotyped role.    To me, the top grossing black producer\director, Tyler Perry,   movies are full of stereotyped roles,  with one of his favorites being the angry black women unable to control herself.

 

Harry Cohn was an especially notorious example of not wanting Black actors to "deviate" from the accepted norm.

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Harry Cohn was an especially notorious example of not wanting Black actors to "deviate" from the accepted norm.

 

I'd assume that was the case with all the studio bosses.   But I wonder what their motive was for doing so?  Again, I'm assuming it was mostly economic.   i.e. the studios had to cater to the accepted norm,  as defined by whites audiences.     Most of the time making a movie with a racial justice theme would result in a box office bust.    Whites audiences where A-OK with the helpful nanny or maid (even a very wise one which they often were),  or the funny goofy bellhop,  or servant.   But sadly beyond that,  not so much.      

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Going back to the original topic of this thread, France Nuyen is one actor whose image, especially in certain films, is a mixed bag. She usually played a variation on he "China doll", with big eyes, an almost worshipful attachment to her love interests, almost as if she were stuck between adolescence and womanhood. This is such a deviation from her attitude in real life, and later n her career, you saw her playing more fleshed-out roles, such as in 'The Joy Luck Club". But time will tell if this will change. I definitely believe she has talent, it just was used for only one type of image.

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I'd assume that was the case with all the studio bosses.   But I wonder what their motive was for doing so?  Again, I'm assuming it was mostly economic.   i.e. the studios had to cater to the accepted norm,  as defined by whites audiences.     Most of the time making a movie with a racial justice theme would result in a box office bust.    Whites audiences where A-OK with the helpful nanny or maid (even a very wise one which they often were),  or the funny goofy bellhop,  or servant.   But sadly beyond that,  not so much.

 

Unfortunately, not much seems to have changed, even though it's more nuanced now. I think that it's a combination of economics (the South has always been a big movie hub) and a deep investment in certain ideas about race and the racial hierarchy, whether acknowledged of unacknowledged. Seeing a Black or other character of color just being a person doesn't just potentially translate into an economic failure; it challenges the audience's views about everything they may have felt regarding people of other ethnicities.

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Unfortunately, not much seems to have changed, even though it's more nuanced now. I think that it's a combination of economics (the South has always been a big movie hub) and a deep investment in certain ideas about race and the racial hierarchy, whether acknowledged of unacknowledged. Seeing a Black or other character of color just being a person doesn't just potentially translate into an economic failure; it challenges the audience's views about everything they may have felt regarding people of other ethnicities.

 

What you wrote is why I mentioned Tyler Perry.   I think he often throws his own under the bus just to make a buck.   But since his movies make a lot of money,  one has to assume he is giving his auidence what they want.    He also tries to explain this by saying the really out there characters are done just for comedy.   Isn't that the same lame excuse Hollywood used in the 30's for the goofy bellhop or black servant?   

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What you wrote is why I mentioned Tyler Perry.   I think he often throws his own under the bus just to make a buck.   But since his movies make a lot of money,  one has to assume he is giving his auidence what they want.    He also tries to explain this by saying the really out there characters are done just for comedy.   Isn't that the same lame excuse Hollywood used in the 30's for the goofy bellhop or black servant?   

 

Could NOT agree with ya MORE here, James. The little exposure I've had to Mr. Perry's "shtick", I've found to be extremely "low-brow" and NOT funny at all!

 

(...geeeee, I hope that didn't make me sound like some freakin' snob here!!!) LOL

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What you wrote is why I mentioned Tyler Perry.   I think he often throws his own under the bus just to make a buck.   But since his movies make a lot of money,  one has to assume he is giving his auidence what they want.    He also tries to explain this by saying the really out there characters are done just for comedy.   Isn't that the same lame excuse Hollywood used in the 30's for the goofy bellhop or black servant?   

You will find a diversity of thought on Tyler Perry. Personally, the only film of his I liked that he produced was Precious. But, he is not the only African American director in Hollywood making films. Spike Lee, Lee Daniels, and Kasi Lemmons are making films too. Besides, there is something to be said about having the path to success be by the dominant culture's standards and not by one's own when it comes to success. 

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What you wrote is why I mentioned Tyler Perry.   I think he often throws his own under the bus just to make a buck.   But since his movies make a lot of money,  one has to assume he is giving his auidence what they want.    He also tries to explain this by saying the really out there characters are done just for comedy.   Isn't that the same lame excuse Hollywood used in the 30's for the goofy bellhop or black servant?

 

Well, the reason why I'm not as harsh on Tyler Perry as I am on others is because of context. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of tropes and character developments in his movies that one does see over and over, the likes of which do veer over the top and cause others to have very pointed reactions. However, I've found that many people who bash his films ( and I'm speaking in general terms) haven't seen his stage plays. Not only are they different in terms of structure, but the messages that he wants so badly to get across to his audiences tend to translate a little better.

I think it's also important to realize that Perry's inspiration and source material comes from his upbringing in the South; he's stated that his characters are based in his family members, and that he's trying to celebrate that "down-home" , tough love type of wisdom and culture that he feels is overlooked by the mainstream. I think part of the reason why his films do so well with their target audiences is because they're also a part of that tradition, and enjoy seeing themselves and their memories represented. I've also noticed that lately, he's been veering into a variety of territory in terms of how he represents his characters, whether it be through their jobs, social position, etc. I can't speak for him personally, but after listening to some of his interviews, I dint get the feeling that he's trying to intentionally harm the community.

Additionally, Oscar Micheaux, another pioneering African-American filmmaker, released movies that were fraught with problems. Although he explored different issues within the Black community, his characters were also greatly stereotyped, especially among color lines (nearly all of his leads were fair-skinned; the ones who weren't tended to be bad apples). This also came from someone who worked outside of Hollywood, and therefore wasn't bound by its standards.

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I think Bette Davis looks great in ALL ABOUT EVE (AndyM108 wrote she didn't reach "total frumpiness"  until ALL ABOUT EVE).  Her characters did not call for her to be glamorous. 

 

In the case of All About Eve, she was supposed to be frumpy.  She certainly acted throughout that movie as if this was how the world now viewed her, i.e., as a woman who was hanging on in many ways, both personal and professional.  This sense of her world slowly slipping out from under her was the source of many of her greatest and most acidic lines.

Bette-Davis-3.jpg

all-about-eve1.jpg

 

I like Stanwyck's looks, too (my favorite actress with Bette #2), and both she and Theresa Harris are very pretty in BABY FACE.  It is shameful that Black actors and actresses couldn't get better roles back in those days.  Every once in a while you'll come across Black characters in early cinema who aren't maids or butlers and it it quite refreshing and surprising (case in point if memory serves me correctly:  SAFE IN HELL).  I agree Roz Russell is pretty but I really like Norma Shearer's looks, especially in the early '30s.

 

Totally agree with every sentiment in this paragraph.

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Here ya go, finance...

 

melissa-mccarthy.jpg

 

She became a star when the Chuck Lorrie sitcom "Mike and Molly"(and I think one of the funnier sitcoms around lately) became a hit a couple of years ago, and for which she's won a couple of Emmys as lead actress in a comedy.

 

(...she's actually very funny and quite talented...though of course she COULD benefit from goin' to those Spin classes you're so hooked on!) 

 

Melissa McCarthy also is the first cousin of Jenny McCarthy, Playboy's 1994 Playmate of the Year who became an MTV on-air celebrity, actress, author, activist and current co-host (but not for long) of "The View."

 

jenny-mccarthy-joins-the-view-as-new-co-

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Here ya go, finance...

 

melissa-mccarthy.jpg

 

She became a star when the Chuck Lorrie sitcom "Mike and Molly"(and I think one of the funnier sitcoms around lately) became a hit a couple of years ago, and for which she's won a couple of Emmys as lead actress in a comedy.

 

(...she's actually very funny and quite talented...though of course she COULD benefit from goin' to those Spin classes you're so hooked on!) 

I understand she started in show business by finishing third in a Rosanne Barr lookalike contest.

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Here ya go, finance...

 

melissa-mccarthy.jpg

 

She became a star when the Chuck Lorrie sitcom "Mike and Molly"(and I think one of the funnier sitcoms around lately) became a hit a couple of years ago, and for which she's won a couple of Emmys as lead actress in a comedy.

 

(...she's actually very funny and quite talented...though of course she COULD benefit from goin' to those Spin classes you're so hooked on!) 

 

Actually, what fueled McCarthy's stardom was her breakout performance in the 2011 comedy hit "Bridesmaids," for which she earned an Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress. I believe she has only received one Primetime Emmy, although she's been nominated several times, including a nod for a hosting stint on "Saturday Night Live." She's nominated again this year for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series and we'll find out later this month if she wins a second time. 

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 was her breakout performance in the 2011 comedy hit "Bridesmaids," for which she earned an Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress. I believe she has only received one Primetime Emmy, although she's been nominated several times, including a nod for a hosting stint on "Saturday Night Live." She's nominated again this year for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series and we'll find out later this month if she wins a second time. 

 

Yep, as ChristineHoard pointed out earlier, I had erroneously stated Melissa had "two" Emmys, but in fact it has only been one.

 

However, I think her breakout movie performance in "Bridesmaids" was released right after she had already won that Emmy for Mike&Molly, and so in this case one could probably say that that film just "further established her career"

 

(...either way, I find her, her sitcom, and everybody on it to be hilarious)

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Yep, as ChristineHoard pointed out earlier, I had erroneously stated Melissa had "two" Emmys, but in fact it has only been one.

 

However, I think her breakout movie performance in "Bridesmaids" was released right after she had already won that Emmy for Mike&Molly, and so in this case one could probably say that that film just "further established her career"

 

(...either way, I find her, her sitcom, and everybody on it to be hilarious)

 

Actually, "Bridesmaids" was released in April 2011, just before McCarthy won her Emmy in September 2011. But she wasn't nominated for an Oscar until the following January, so you weren't wrong. It's just so hard to believe that "Mike & Molly" has been on the air so long! And it IS hilarious!

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AndyM108,  Thank you for your reply.  I think Bette is supposed to feel frumpy in ALL ABOUT EVE but she certainly doesn't look frumpy, at least to me, and I absolutely love that dress and her hairstyle in the photo you postepkd.

I dont think she was supposed to be, look or.feel frumpy, at least.not until.Eve insinuated heself into their lives.

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AndyM108,  Thank you for your reply.  I think Bette is supposed to feel frumpy in ALL ABOUT EVE but she certainly doesn't look frumpy, at least to me, and I absolutely love that dress and her hairstyle in the photo you posted.

 

That's about as subjective as it gets, either way.  IMO her role is that of a fading star who sees a fresh young face maneuvering to replace her in the spotlight she'd come to take for granted, and (again IMO) she looks the part.  But I guess if I wanted to make the contrast even more emphatic, I probably should have posted a picture of her in A Catered Affair, when she was 48.  Whether you want to call it "aging well" or "aging poorly" or "aging normally" depends on how you look at it, but the point is that by the time she was in her 40's, what she looked like in her late 20's was only a distant memory.  That's not always the case with actresses, as you can see by the picture of the 55 year old Lilli Palmer from Murders in the Rue Morgue.

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Melissa McCarthy certainly is a good actress, but she's not even the most talented comedienne on CBS Monday nights. That honor goes to Anna Faris, who made several fine comic movies in the latter half of last decade ("Smiley Face," "The House Bunny") but never quite caught on. She moved to TV last year in another Chuck Lorre-produced sitcom, "Mom," where she and Allison Janney play daughter-and-mother recovering alcoholics trying to make ends meet. That in itself doesn't sound all that funny, but Faris and Janney have terrific chemistry and the scripts have plenty of heart. "Mom" will be back for a second season and is well worth checking out. I'm hoping it can lift Faris to a return to the big screen; it may help that she's married to the star of the hour, Chris Pratt of "Guardians Of The Galaxy" fame.

 

24b1f1ccd3f22330_anna-f.jpg

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