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Does anyone find SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) offensive...?

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Anyway, as I pressed play and started watching the film, I was expecting it to be totally offensive and cringe-worthy. It is not.  In fact, it is very integrated the way the black and white children get along (it seems very progressive for a motion picture produced in 1946). I thought it admirable the way the white boy played by Bobby Driscoll looks up to Uncle Remus (James Baskett) and Aunt Tempy (Hattie McDaniel). It's a beautiful film, told in the usual heart-warming classic Disney way.

 

A Professor credits Walt Disney and actor James Baskett for popularizing the Br’er Rabbit stories in the 20th Century in SONG OF THE SOUTH. He tells about how “Political Correctness” has now suppressed both James Baskett and the Disney movie.

 

Prof. Damon Fordham on the Roots of Brer Rabbit

 

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I've always said the "founding fathers" were a-holes.

 

If it weren't for those a-holes, you would not be sitting here right now taking part in this conversation. Not all the founding fathers were slave owners. I hope everyone realizes that.

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If it weren't for those a-holes, you would not be sitting here right now taking part in this conversation.

 

I sure as hell would. I'm not here because of anything those a$$holes did.

 

I'm here because Canada is a part of the Commonwealth and was very much so when my grandfather came from England as one of the Dr. Bernardo children back in the 1910's.

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I sure as hell would. I'm not here because of anything those a$$holes did.

 

I'm here because Canada is a part of the Commonwealth and was very much so when my grandfather came from England as one of the Dr. Bernardo children back in the 1910's.

 

Oh yeah. I forgot you are a Canuck. Sorry about that.

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A Professor credits Walt Disney and actor James Baskett for popularizing the Br’er Rabbit stories in the 20th Century in SONG OF THE SOUTH. He tells about how “Political Correctness” has now suppressed both James Baskett and the Disney movie.

 

Prof. Damon Fordham on the Roots of Brer Rabbit

 

Most interesting, Fred! Amazed at how you are finding some of this stuff online...

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If it weren't for those a-holes, you would not be sitting here right now taking part in this conversation. Not all the founding fathers were slave owners. I hope everyone realizes that.

But they were all wealthy, white males who believed only wealthy, white males should have the right to vote.   While may not have been slave owners, they saw nothing wrong with it or at least accepted it as they way things are.  Most opposed to slavery also believed that "Negroes" were inferior to whites and should never be treated as equals.  Of course, neither should women, Asians, poor, working class, southern Europeans, etc.

BTW, most people don't realize that at the time the Consitution was written, the US government was dominated by the Southern, slave states.

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Most interesting, Fred! Amazed at how you are finding some of this stuff online...

 

Yes, it IS amazing what you can find online. Here's "Of Black America: Black History Lost, Stolen or Strayed," a 1968 special that aired on CBS. It was hosted by Bill Cosby. and for many television viewers, it was the first time they saw the serious version of the Emmy- and Grammy-Award-winning actor and comedian. It is still food for thought today, September 20, 2014 -- the 30th anniversary of the groundbreaking premiere of "The Cosby Show" on NBC.

 

 

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So, is it the concensus that SOTS is MORE offensive than the scene in "DUMBO" with the CROWS singing, "Till I SEED a ELEPHANT FLY!"  ??

 

Sepiatone

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Yes, it IS amazing what you can find online. Here's "Of Black America: Black History Lost, Stolen or Strayed," a 1968 special that aired on CBS. It was hosted by Bill Cosby. and for many television viewers, it was the first time they saw the serious version of the Emmy- and Grammy-Award-winning actor and comedian. It is still food for thought today, September 20, 2014 -- the 30th anniversary of the groundbreaking premiere of "The Cosby Show" on NBC.

 

Thumbs down. It seems you are intentionally trying to derail the thread. Fred's posts are related to the content of SONG OF THE SOUTH. Your posts seems to have a broader political connotation to them and belong in a separate thread that you should create, provided you can relate it to classic filmmaking.

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Thumbs down. It seems you are intentionally trying to derail the thread. Fred's posts are related to the content of SONG OF THE SOUTH. Your posts seems to have a broader political connotation to them and belong in a separate thread that you should create, provided you can relate it to classic filmmaking.

 

Yes,  Fred found someone else that wishes Disney would release the film.   No one at this thread feels otherwise so I don't see how that post adds anything to the discussion.    There are people that do find the film offensive.   Why can't you accept that others view things differently than you  (even if you feel they are misguided)?   

 

Either way,  Disney made a choice from a risk \ reward POV and I feel they made the right choice (as it relates to risk \ reward),  even though I want all movies to be available to the public.

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Yes,  Fred found someone else that wishes Disney would release the film.   No one at this thread feels otherwise so I don't see how that post adds anything to the discussion.    There are people that do find the film offensive.   Why can't you accept that others view things differently than you  (even if you feel they are misguided)?   

 

Either way,  Disney made a choice from a risk \ reward POV and I feel they made the right choice (as it relates to risk \ reward),  even though I want all movies to be available to the public.

You are trying to make it personal. How do you know what I can accept or cannot accept? My concern here is that we have someone who has gone beyond saying SONG OF THE SOUTH is offensive to the point of trying to block other posters who do not find it offensive. So maybe you can redirect your comments about what people can accept or not accept to that person instead of me.

 

Also, you cannot easily say that Fred's contributions are not adding to the discussion and lump everyone else into that without acknowledging it is your broad-sweeping opinion. And where did I ever say anyone was misguided? Please stop using language that implies I lack tolerance. It is highly unfair for you to mischaracterize my motives and comments, and for you to dismiss Fred's posts as worthless. Again, please stop making this personal. Let the discussion focus on SONG OF THE SOUTH, and let us leave personality clashes and political commentary out of it. Thanks.

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You are trying to make it personal. How do you know what I can accept or cannot accept? My concern here is that we have someone who has gone beyond saying SONG OF THE SOUTH is offensive to the point of trying to block other posters who do not find it offensive. So maybe you can redirect your comments about what people can accept or not accept to that person instead of me.

 

Also, you cannot easily say that Fred's contributions are not adding to the discussion and lump everyone else into that without acknowledging it is your broad-sweeping opinion. And where did I ever say anyone was misguided? Please stop using language that implies I lack tolerance. It is highly unfair for you to mischaracterize my motives and comments, and for you to dismiss Fred's posts as worthless. Again, please stop making this personal. Let the discussion focus on SONG OF THE SOUTH, and let us leave personality clashes and political commentary out of it. Thanks.

 

I fail to see what point you're making and this latest post still doesn't make any point (other than your classic lecture on how to post). 

 

So, I'm sorry if you felt I was getting personal.  But really as it relates to SOTS,  what point are you making?

 

Thank you.

 

PS:  As for saying other were misguided;  I meant people OUTSIDE of this forum when you said this: 

 

I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

To me that comment is saying that those that say they find the movie offensive really don't, since they are NOT sincere.  To me that is an insult to those that honestly find the movie offensive (and there are some).

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I fail to see what point you're making and this latest post still doesn't make any point (other than your classic lecture on how to post). 

 

So, I'm sorry if you felt I was getting personal.  But really as it relates to SOTS,  what point are you making?

 

Thank you.

 

PS:  As for saying other were misguided;  I meant people OUTSIDE of this forum when you said this: 

 

I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

To me that comment is saying that those that say they find the movie offensive really don't, since they are NOT sincere.  To me that is an insult to those that honestly find the movie offensive (and there are some).

The comment you quoted does not say I feel others are misguided. I just objected to their actions. They could be very guided in what they believe, but it is not a belief I share. So again, please stop misconstruing my posts.

 

Also, I find it ironic that you are lecturing me on lecturing to others. And of course, I do not see myself as lecturing.

 

The other thing I do not like about some of your posts is that you try to demean another poster's point of view by saying that what they are writing fails to make a point with you. It is not the other person's job to get your approval on their posts or for you to decide the relevance of their comments. Again, let's make this less personal and look at SONG OF THE SOUTH.

 

I do not wish to spend all day going back and forth with you, because it takes away from the time I prefer to devote to other threads here and at the IMDB. Thanks.

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The comment you quoted does not say I feel others are misguided. I just objected to their actions. They could be very guided in what they believe, but it is not a belief I share. So again, please stop misconstruing my posts.

 

Also, I find it ironic that you are lecturing me on lecturing to others. And of course, I do not see myself as lecturing.

 

The other thing I do not like about some of your posts is that you try to demean another poster's point of view by saying that what they are writing fails to make a point with you. It is not the other person's job to get your approval on their posts or for you to decide the relevance of their comments. Again, let's make this less personal and look at SONG OF THE SOUTH.

 

I do not wish to spend all day going back and forth with you, because it takes away from the time I prefer to devote to other threads here and at the IMDB. Thanks.

 

So saying 'I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- ',  isn't saying they are being insincere (which to me is worst than saying they are misguided)???? 

 

I'm not buying that load,

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So saying 'I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- ',  isn't saying they are being insincere (which to me is worst than saying they are misguided)???? 

 

I'm not buying that load,

Please stop. :) Thank you.

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So saying 'I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- ',  isn't saying they are being insincere (which to me is worst than saying they are misguided)???? 

 

I'm not buying that load,

Be careful James, soon TB will place you on ignore.....

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Please stop. :) Thank you.

 

Ok,  I'll stop.    The only reason I pointed out that comment in the past and here again was because I was very surprised you made it since I haven't seen you question the sincerity of others as it relates to this topic.    This is why the first time I asked you if I misunderstood what you posted since it surprised me.     But it appears you don't wish to discuss what you meant by that comment so I'll move on.

 

Have a nice day!    :)

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Thumbs down. It seems you are intentionally trying to derail the thread. Fred's posts are related to the content of SONG OF THE SOUTH. Your posts seems to have a broader political connotation to them and belong in a separate thread that you should create, provided you can relate it to classic filmmaking.

 

No thanks! This thread will do quite nicely! As my previous posts have tried to explain, "Song of the South" is just another in a long line of vintage Hollywood movies that featured negative images of black people. But you refuse to see it. It's almost as if you've been told that Old Yeller has rabies, but you don't have the heart to put him out of his misery,

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2013/01/song_of_the_south_disney_s_most_notorious_film_by_jason_sperb_reviewed.html

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I believe that the principal aspect of the movie that provokes the greatest resentment from "blacks" (and probably many "whites" as well) is what has been termed "the Negro dialect".

 

I can understand that many people just don't want to hear this rather pronounced affectation, finding it both inaccurate and demeaning.

 

Some will counter that they've truly known people who've spoken that way, but that doesn't mean that everyone is okay with it being represented as it is in a Disney movie.

 

For some reason, this aspect has not been highlighted much in this discussion - and yet I don't think there's a more obvious example of why this movie is known to rub so many African-Americans the wrong way.

 

But, Disney could release the movie on DVD anyway. There's no law preventing it. And it probably will at some point. After all, the movie has seen many re-releases since 1946 (1956, 1972, 1973, 1980, 1986). But given the problematic response that is always attached to a greater or lesser degree - depending on the moment in time - it's a decision that the suits at Disney are having a great deal more thought about than most of their product.

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Most interesting, Fred! Amazed at how you are finding some of this stuff online...

 

It is a large and growing movement among black story tellers and folk-story collectors to re-tell the Uncle Remus stories. The Disney film, available from a lot of sources now, has helped this movement learn about Uncle Remus and Br'er Rabbit.

 

A school teacher tells the story of Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby, and also the Briar Patch story.

 

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It is a large and growing movement among black story tellers and folk-story collectors to re-tell the Uncle Remus stories. The Disney film, available from a lot of sources now, has helped this movement learn about Uncle Remus and Br'er Rabbit.

 

 Yes, but do any of them sing "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" in a happy-go-lucky way?

 

http://www.chacha.com/gallery/6619/15-terribly-racist-cartoon-moments/68962

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Ok,  I'll stop.    The only reason I pointed out that comment in the past and here again was because I was very surprised you made it since I haven't seen you question the sincerity of others as it relates to this topic.    This is why the first time I asked you if I misunderstood what you posted since it surprised me.     But it appears you don't wish to discuss what you meant by that comment so I'll move on.

 

Have a nice day!    :)

Thanks, James. Yeah, I don't wish to argue with you. Normally, we have very good exchanges in various threads around here. :)

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1949 all-white version of Song of the South type movie:

 

SO DEAR TO MY HEART

 

But I sho does miss uncle remus......

 

 

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1949 all-white version of Song of the South type movie:

 

SO DEAR TO MY HEART

 

But I sho does miss uncle remus......

 

 

 

So Burl Ives is Bobby Driscoll's Uncle Hiram -- and not his Uncle Tom.

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As a WHITE GUY, I never thought LESS of black people because of BRE'R Rabbit. 

 

I also didn't think LESS of black people because of LITTLE BLACK S A M B O.  In fact, the story reveals how CLEVER S A M B O was in outthinking the TIGERS.  Even enjoying the PANCAKES made from the BUTTER created from the tigers chasing each other around a tree.  HOW can anyone find any of that offensive?

 

I sure didn't think less of "colored" folk because of AMOS 'N' ANDY.  I simply viewed them as a "colored" version of LAUREL AND HARDY.  The local TV stations used to show them on Saturday afternoons along with old reruns of the ABBOTT AND COSTELLO television show.  And I always thought AMOS 'N' ANDY were FUNNIER!

 

Of course, I was much younger then, and nobody as of yet had bothered to "teach" me that "colored" people were to be hated and feared. 

 

Sepiatone

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