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Does anyone find SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) offensive...?


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I think I understand where TB is coming from here.   The Oscar was given to those two for their performance not for or because of the character they played.     Oscars have gone to actors playing killers,  gangsters,  women beaters, etc...  No one would assume that the academy was condoning these characters.   The academy was just rewarding the actor for their performance.

 

What is embarrassing is that the vast majority of roles played by minority groups were associated with certain type of characters.

 

i.e.  The odds were great that McDaniel's Oscar would be for a performance as a maid since the majority of her roles were as a maid. 

 

But you're making a point for my team. McDaniel and Baskett weren't embarrassing. The fact that the Hollywood system perpetuated stereotypes and rewarded actors for playing them was the true embarrassment. And the amazing thing is an African American did not receive an Oscar for playing a killer or gangster until Denzel Washington's winning performance in "Training Day" in March 2002.

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So we should all be grateful to Joel Chandler Harris for opening a Pandora's Box that unleashed the Tar Baby on the world? Did he also create "Amos 'n' Andy" and name the Washington football team? 

Actually I believe everyone should read the Uncle Remus stories before they start yada, yada about them.  The Tar Baby actually represented a "sticky" situation.as opposed to your comment here.  Amos and Andy....we all listened to them on the Radio and I don't know that I even knew their background as I didn't visualize them as anything other than what they did on the radio...I do remember that they all had spouses they avoided and belonged to a lodge...they were just funny.  The Redskins...can't we just have a history and leave it at that.  The big thing about history is to learn from it and in some cases to not repeat it. 

 

However the more that I view these posts it appears that some commentators/observers should go back and read some history.

 

As to the careers of African Americans in entertainment prior to Sydney Poitier and Harry Belafonte I think if you will read some of the biographies of some of these actors you would be surprised as to many films they have to their credit.  You may not like their roles, and they may not have either, but it meant food on the table and money in their pocket when their were many (white and all others who had none) during the era. 

 

And don't forget that all the time progress was being made...and there were excellent examples as early as the late 30's, Jack Benny and Eddie Rochester (you should see his filmography!!! longer than many others)..Jimmy Dorsey and Lionel Hampton and others, Nat King Cole all made progress.

 

As I said it is easy for us to judge, we weren't there so all we can do is learn and move forward. 

 

However as I said earlier why don't you read Uncle Remus stories and then judge the movie. 

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Man, we could have used some serious political correctness back then.

 

We did have some serious Political Correctness back then. This term has a long history that is associated with the official "party line" of the Communist Party.

 

See this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness#Early-to-mid_20th_century

 

Early-to-mid 20th century

 

In the early-to-mid 20th century, contemporary uses of the phrase “Politically Correct” were associated with the dogmatic application of Stalinist doctrine, debated between formal Communists (members of the Communist Party) and Socialists. The phrase was a colloquialism referring to the Communist "party line", which provided for "correct" positions on many matters of politics. According to American educator Herbert Kohl, writing about debates in New York in the late 1940s and early 1950s,

 

    The term “politically correct” was used disparagingly, to refer to someone whose loyalty to the CP line overrode compassion, and led to bad politics. It was used by Socialists against Communists, and was meant to separate out Socialists who believed in egalitarian moral ideas from dogmatic Communists who would advocate and defend party positions regardless of their moral substance.

    —“Uncommon Differences”, The Lion and the Unicorn Journal[4]

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We did have some Political Correctness back then. This term has a long history that is associated with the official "party line" of the Communist Party.

 

 

Good point...Mr. Dobbs.  Political Correctness as practiced is certainly as controlling as the party line.  As a matter fact it is the party line for whatever party you represent.  It is also a substitute for critical thinking.  

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Actually I believe everyone should read the Uncle Remus stories before they start yada, yada about them.  The Tar Baby actually represented a "sticky" situation.as opposed to your comment here.  Amos and Andy....we all listened to them on the Radio and I don't know that I even knew their background as I didn't visualize them as anything other than what they did on the radio...I do remember that they all had spouses they avoided and belonged to a lodge...they were just funny.  The Redskins...can't we just have a history and leave it at that.  The big thing about history is to learn from it and in some cases to not repeat it. 

 

However the more that I view these posts it appears that some commentators/observers should go back and read some history.

 

As to the careers of African Americans in entertainment prior to Sydney Poitier and Harry Belafonte I think if you will read some of the biographies of some of these actors you would be surprised as to many films they have to their credit.  You may not like their roles, and they may not have either, but it meant food on the table and money in their pocket when their were many (white and all others who had none) during the era. 

 

And don't forget that all the time progress was being made...and there were excellent examples as early as the late 30's, Jack Benny and Eddie Rochester (you should see his filmography!!! longer than many others)..Jimmy Dorsey and Lionel Hampton and others, Nat King Cole all made progress.

 

As I said it is easy for us to judge, we weren't there so all we can do is learn and move forward. 

 

However as I said earlier why don't you read Uncle Remus stories and then judge the movie. 

 

It sure is easy for you to judge.   Don't you see your judging those that feel Redskins should change their name?

 

To me what I hear you saying is 'these things shouldn't bug you and if they do,  just get over it'.

 

Also, Nat King Cole is an odd example.   Nat's T.V. only lasted a little over one season.

 

Commenting on the lack of sponsorship his show received, Cole quipped shortly after its demise, "Madison Avenue is afraid of the dark".

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It sure is easy for you to judge.   Don't you see your judging those that feel Redskins should change their name?

 

To me what I hear you saying is 'these things shouldn't bug you and if they do,  just get over it'.

 

Also, Nat King Cole is an odd example.   Nat's T.V. only lasted a little over one season.

 

Commenting on the lack of sponsorship his show received, Cole quipped shortly after its demise, "Madison Avenue is afraid of the dark".

It sure is easy for you to judge.

 

The Ignore button is a wonderful invention! ;)

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Fred has just posted Song of the South in his "Movies on YouTube" thread. I've started watching it. Btw, Joel Chandler Harris, who created Uncle Remus, was the godfather of Margaret Dumont. He raised her, during part of her childhood.

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Well, seein' as how nobody attempted to answer ham's earlier question of:

 

 

 

 

Wonder who does the black and white magpies "Heckle and Jeckle" offend?

 

heckle_and_jeckle__thumb.jpg

 

I'LL tell ya, ham! 

 

Those two mischievous magpies were "offending" Dimwit the moronic hound dog here...

 

526x297-KRI.jpg

 

...EVERY freakin' chance they GOT!!!

 

Yep, poor ol' Dimwit. I used to feel SO sorry for that dumb canine every Saturday morning back in the day!

 

(...didn't stop me from LAUGHIN' though!!!)

 

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We did have some serious Political Correctness back then. This term has a long history that is associated with the official "party line" of the Communist Party.

 

 

 

I guess that explains why the great Paul Robeson embraced some Communist principles, which resulted in his undoing during the McCarthy era. By the way, after starring in "Tales of Manhattan" (1942), Robeson swore off roles that demeaned African Americans. That means he never would have played somebody named "Uncle" or appeared as bug-eyed, ghost-fearing characters like Mantan Moreland.

 

As for the Tar Baby, the name has taken on an entirely different connotation today. And it's as controversial as the mascot name of the Washington football team.

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I guess that explains why the great Paul Robeson embraced some Communist principles, which resulted in his undoing during the McCarthy era. By the way, after starring in "Tales of Manhattan" (1942), Robeson swore off roles that demeaned African Americans. That means he never would have played somebody named "Uncle" or appeared as bug-eyed, ghost-fearing characters like Mantan Moreland.

 

As for the Tar Baby, the name has taken on an entirely different connotation today. And it's as controversial as the mascot name of the Washington football team.

 

But for those African Americans actors "it meant food on the table and money in their pocket."

 

Don't you know that this makes it all A-OK.    As for that Washington football team's mascot name;  That isn't controversial.  Only trouble makers and do nothings think that.   ;)

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But for those African Americans actors "it meant food on the table and money in their pocket."

 

Don't you know that this makes it all A-OK.    As for that Washington football team's mascot name;  That isn't controversial.  Only trouble makers and do nothings think that.   ;)

 

It's a racial slur, and the owner who christened the team was a notorious bigot. He didn't have a black player on his ballclub until he was forced to in the 1960s.

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Here is a portion of a post made by someone on the IMDB. He identifies himself as black and does not find SONG OF THE SOUTH to be offensive:

 

I was a bit afraid because I'd heard it was like the most racist thing ever created or something. But I watched it anyway, and while I thought it was an average movie at best, I failed to notice anything that even came close to racism. 

Sure, there were one or two very light stereotypes, but stereotypes are not racist. No one ate a watermelon or fried chicken. The animal characters didn't have deformed, swollen lips. Everyone seemed to be friends with each other, except the two white bullies. 

If anything, the two bullies were the only thing from the movie that I'd even begin to consider offensive - shoving a girl in some mud and threatening to drown a puppy. 

I guess what some people didn't like was that Uncle Remus was a happy-going person. What was he supposed to do, be miserable and tell stories about how Bre'r Rabbit shot up some heroin and got busted by the cops? Contrary to what liberals will tell you, the vast majority of us (yes, I'm black, AND a Republican...) don't just sit around 24/7 being depressed and miserable because of things that happened to people we never knew, who have all been dead for over a hundred years. 

Any rational person should be able to see that there's nothing controversial about this movie. If anything, it should be commended; name me a movie from 1946 or earlier that portrays black people in such a positive light, much less actually allowed black people to act themselves and not just be portrayed by whites in blackface.

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Here is a portion of a post made by someone on the IMDB. He identifies himself as black and does not find SONG OF THE SOUTH to be offensive:

 

As the hip, black comedian Stu Gilliam (or was it Scoey Mitchell?) once said on television in the 1960s: "When the revolution comes, we're going to have to get rid of some of us, too!"

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Early-to-mid 20th century

 

In the early-to-mid 20th century, contemporary uses of the phrase “Politically Correct” were associated with the dogmatic application of Stalinist doctrine, debated between formal Communists (members of the Communist Party) and Socialists. The phrase was a colloquialism referring to the Communist "party line", which provided for "correct" positions on many matters of politics. According to American educator Herbert Kohl, writing about debates in New York in the late 1940s and early 1950s,

 

    The term “politically correct” was used disparagingly, to refer to someone whose loyalty to the CP line overrode compassion, and led to bad politics. It was used by Socialists against Communists, and was meant to separate out Socialists who believed in egalitarian moral ideas from dogmatic Communists who would advocate and defend party positions regardless of their moral substance.

    —“Uncommon Differences”, The Lion and the Unicorn Journal[4]

 

Just for the record, the first person to lampoon the Communists' use of the stifling word "correct" was herself a Communist:  The late Jessica Mitford, in a pamphlet written as a playful riff on a list of "U-" or "non-U" words that her sister Nancy claimed would identify a speaker as belonging to the upper class or not.  Jessica's counterpart was "L" or "non-L" for "Left and non-Left".  Here's a more nuanced and through history of the "PC" concept:

 

Political correctness, coined by Mao Zedong, is a term denoting language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social offense in gender, racial, cultural, handicap, and age-related usages.

 

In Marxist-Leninist and Trotskyist vocabulary, correct was the common term denoting the "appropriate party line" and the ideologic/ "correct line". Likewise in the People's Republic of China, as part of Mao's declarations on the correct handling of "non-antagonistic contradictions". MIT professor of literature Ruth Perry traces the term from Mao Zedong's Little Red Book (1964).

 

Even before the term PC appeared, the Left mocked its own language usage in the pamphlet Lifeitselfmanship or How to Become a Precisely-Because Man (1956), by Jessica Mitford, about "L and non-L" (Left and non-Left) English, mocking the Communist clichés used by her comrades when talking about fighting the class struggle. The pamphlet's title refers to the Stephen Potter book series including the title Lifemanship, and replies to Noblesse Oblige, by Nancy Mitford, about the perceptible class distinctions in British English usage, that popularised the phrases "U and non-U English" (Upper class and non-Upper class).

 

In the 1960s, the radical Left adopted the term, initially seriously, then ironically, in self-criticism of dogmatic attitudes. In the 1990s, because of the term's association with radical left-wing politics and Communist censorship, the US Right applied it to discredit the Old Left and the New Left. By 1970, New Left proponents had adopted the term political correctness. In the essay The Black Woman, Toni Cade Bambara says: ". . . a man cannot be politically correct and a chauvinist too" - a usage that widened the definition's scope to include the politics of gender and identity to the politics of ideological orthodoxy in governing. The New Left thus re-appropriated the term political correctness as satirical self-criticism; per Debra Shultz: "Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the New Left, feminists, and progressives . . . used their term politically correct ironically, as a guard against their own orthodoxy in social change efforts". ...

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Here is a portion of a post made by someone on the IMDB. He identifies himself as black and does not find SONG OF THE SOUTH to be offensive:

 

I guess what some people didn't like was that Uncle Remus was a happy-going person. What was he supposed to do, be miserable and tell stories about how Bre'r Rabbit shot up some heroin and got busted by the cops? Contrary to what liberals will tell you, the vast majority of us (yes, I'm black, AND a Republican...) don't just sit around 24/7 being depressed and miserable because of things that happened to people we never knew, who have all been dead for over a hundred years. 

 

 

What a strange statement this IMDB poster makes here. Ultra-conservatives are the ones who've characterized groups as dwelling on historical injustices and mocked them for not just "getting over it."

 

It's amazing how the word "liberal" has become so demonized in the US, with the "l-word"  being slung as an insult by those who have no real understanding of liberalism.

And so many staunch ideological conservatives are in fact operationally liberal. 

It makes me chuckle to hear some so-called Tea Party "conservative" exclaim: "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare!" 

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AHHHH..........DARG!   THAT has LONG been a favorite SLN moment of mine.  

 

Sepiatone

 

Yep, Sepia. Pryor is absolutely HILARIOUS in this one and I think one of the funniest SNL skits ever in my book too.

 

(...THAT one, and of course the later classic "More Cowbell" skit)

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I did not think the movie is offensive- just a product of it's time when art was not ruled by political correctness - yeah some of the imagery ( specially in the cartoon segments) may now seem questionably racist- but  hey so are Mickey and Judy singingin black face- but a movie is a reflection of it's era.

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You're way too sensible, joe. You're excused from the jury.

 

LOL

 

Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the presiding judge tell ME that very thing after gettin' that summons in the mail and showin' up to do my civic responsibility! 

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What a strange statement this IMDB poster makes here. Ultra-conservatives are the ones who've characterized groups as dwelling on historical injustices and mocked them for not just "getting over it."

 

It's amazing how the word "liberal" has become so demonized in the US, with the "l-word"  being slung as an insult by those who have no real understanding of liberalism.

And so many staunch ideological conservatives are in fact operationally liberal. 

It makes me chuckle to hear some so-called Tea Party "conservative" exclaim: "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare!" 

I don't know about all that, but I do think the IMDB poster had it slightly wrong-- folks are not upset that Uncle Remus is a happy-going sort of guy; they are upset that he is a happy-going black guy. The idea that blacks should be outraged by plantation owners isn't supported by the depictions in this film, and that is a huge problem for some.

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