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Does anyone find SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) offensive...?


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Sounds like you are trying to intimidate two posters whose point of view you do not share. If you will look carefully at all my replies to you, I refrain from personal attacks. It certainly would be nice if you began to reciprocate the same courtesy. 

 

Here we go again. Waahh - I can't keep up so someone must be being mean to me!

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Andy, there is a difference between a general discussion of political correctness gone amok and personal attacks where one poster seeks to systematically destroy or discredit another poster's point of view. I think you may be intentionally trying to blur both concepts to undermine the argument that we have crusaders trying to prevent the re-release of a classic Disney film because they think they know what is correct for the rest of the country.

 

TB, I don't doubt that some people fall into the category you describe.  But there are also plenty of people who aren't trying to be "politically correct" who sincerely find parts of SOTS to be offensive.  If you'd simply acknowledge the sincerity of those folks' POV, even if you don't "understand" it,  then I think we'd get a bit further in this discussion.

 

Personally I can't see how anyone could not see that some people might be sincerely offended at SOTS, but I also don't think that that means that Disney should keep withholding the film.  My only point is that there's more than one legitimate and sincere way of looking at SOTS, and to ascribe one of those POVs solely to "political correctness" is a huge oversimplification of an historically complex issue.

 

And needless to say, I don't subscribe to the POV that suppressing a 68 year old film that only a handful of people are ever likely to see is going to affect the overall state of race relations in this country one way or the other.  Since Disney obviously isn't going to release the movie, I just wish they'd sell the rights and let some other entity release it.

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I just wish they'd sell the rights and let some other entity release it.

 

They can't - no matter who else releases it, it'll always be their name on it.

 

When I was a child, I remember being at the library, sitting in a circle around a lady who was reading us the story of 'Little Black Sam bo'. I was absolutely delighted by the story - turning a tiger into butter by racing around a tree. We were all delighted. I didn't think the story was racist in any way at all. Just because the native African child was "black" - so what? It was great fun and very imaginative to us. But apparently that story can't be told in public anymore. (Apparently we can't even say the kid's name anymore, judging by the asterisks I got before I separated the letters).

 

Times change. What's deemed suitable for children has changed. Even though I have no problem with these old pieces of art, I still realize that their distribution is controlled by their rights owners. What's fed to kids publicly is a whole sub-category in the concept of censorship.

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Andy, there is a difference between a general discussion of political correctness gone amok and personal attacks where one poster seeks to systematically destroy or discredit another poster's point of view. I think you may be intentionally trying to blur both concepts to undermine the argument that we have crusaders trying to prevent the re-release of a classic Disney film because they think they know what is correct for the rest of the country.

 

TB, I don't doubt that some people fall into the category you describe.  But there are also plenty of people who aren't trying to be "politically correct" who sincerely find parts of SOTS to be offensive.  If you'd simply acknowledge the sincerity of those folks' POV, even if you don't "understand" it,  then I think we'd get a bit further in this discussion.

 

Personally I can't see how anyone could not see that some people might be sincerely offended at SOTS, but I also don't think that that means that Disney should keep withholding the film.  My only point is that there's more than one legitimate and sincere way of looking at SOTS, and to ascribe one of those POVs solely to "political correctness" is a huge oversimplification of an historically complex issue.

 

And needless to say, I don't subscribe to the POV that suppressing a 68 year old film that only a handful of people are ever likely to see is going to affect the overall state of race relations in this country one way or the other.  Since Disney obviously isn't going to release the movie, I just wish they'd sell the rights and let some other entity release it.

Andy,

 

I still don't agree with what you are saying. First, Disney shouldn't have to sell it off, and I don't think they ever plan to do that. I think they will re-release it at some point-- but it is being delayed unnecessarily. 

 

Also, I think you may be oversimplifying my views of political correctness-- especially as it relates to this film and its opponents. The only ones I have seen who have been sincere about SONG OF THE SOUTH are the people who are not afraid to admit they enjoy it and would buy it in a heartbeat if it were available in the U.S. marketplace. Fortunately, with the internet, it is easier to purchase things outside America, and I am sure that is how American tax dollars were spent by my local county library to purchase a copy of SONG OF THE SOUTH that was for sale in Australia.

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Andy,

 

I still don't agree with what you are saying. First, Disney shouldn't have to sell it off, and I don't think they ever plan to do that. I think they will re-release it at some point-- but it is being delayed unnecessarily.

 

And I don't think Disney should have to sell it off, either.  I suggested that alternative only as a way to get it out there with less delay.

 

Also, I think you may be oversimplifying my views of political correctness-- especially as it relates to this film and its opponents. The only ones I have seen who have been sincere about SONG OF THE SOUTH are the people who are not afraid to admit they enjoy it and would buy it in a heartbeat if it were available in the U.S. marketplace.

 

But that's exactly what I meant.  You can only acknowledge one sincere side of an argument---your own---which leaves you and the criers of "racism" as mirror images of one another, even if neither of you like the comparison.

 

By contrast, any real discussion has to begin by acknowledging the sincerity of one's opponents, whether or not you think their views are loopy.  By what you wrote above, you don't seem to have yet reached that stage.

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Andy, I just want to say here that while I always appreciate reading your well crafted and keen insights into the discussions around here...

 

YOU'RE DRIVIN' ME FREAKIN' NUTS WITH THE MANNER YOU USE TO QUOTE OTHERS IN YOUR POSTS, DUDE!!!!

 

(...'cause it's hard to know at first who you're quotin') ;)

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Andy,

 

I still don't agree with what you are saying. First, Disney shouldn't have to sell it off, and I don't think they ever plan to do that. I think they will re-release it at some point-- but it is being delayed unnecessarily.

 

And I don't think Disney should have to sell it off, either.  I suggested that alternative only as a way to get it out there with less delay.

 

Also, I think you may be oversimplifying my views of political correctness-- especially as it relates to this film and its opponents. The only ones I have seen who have been sincere about SONG OF THE SOUTH are the people who are not afraid to admit they enjoy it and would buy it in a heartbeat if it were available in the U.S. marketplace.

 

But that's exactly what I meant.  You can only acknowledge one sincere side of an argument---your own---which leaves you and the criers of "racism" as mirror images of one another, even if neither of you like the comparison.

 

By contrast, any real discussion has to begin by acknowledging the sincerity of one's opponents, whether or not you think their views are loopy.  By what you wrote above, you don't seem to have yet reached that stage.

Not sure about that, Andy. There are plenty of people who sincerely enjoy SONG OF THE SOUTH and hope to see it available commercially in the U.S. I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

I wish you would address how you have lurched from political correctness to criers of racism. Not all people who cry racism are politically correct. And not all advocates of political correctness have racial slurs as their number one concern. When we leap from one classification to the other, we start to blur the issues. The main issue is whether or not a family film is indeed offensive to the vast majority of American audiences (and I suspect that it in reality is not). And the secondary issue is whether it should remain commercially unavailable in North America.

 

The subjects of racism and political correctness are much greater than the scope of this film discussion. I am sure you agree with me on that.

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Andy, I just want to say here that while I always appreciate reading your well crafted and keen insights into the discussions around here...

 

YOU'RE DRIVIN' ME FREAKIN' NUTS WITH THE MANNER YOU USE TO QUOTE OTHERS IN YOUR POSTS, DUDE!!!!

 

(...'cause it's hard to know at first who you're quotin') ;)

I am going to agree with Dargo about this. I usually have to scroll back to make sure I know whose comments are being referenced in italics, if it is not something I wrote.

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The main issue is whether or not a family film is indeed offensive to the vast majority of American audiences (and I suspect that it in reality is not). And the secondary issue is whether it should remain commercially unavailable in North America.

 

The subjects of racism and political correctness are much greater than the scope of this film discussion. I am sure you agree with me on that.

 

The question being asked by this thread is:

 

DOES ANYONE FIND SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) OFFENSIVE...?

 

It is not "Should Disney re-release this film?". That some people may find aspects of racial stereotyping in the movie and object to the film on that basis is just part of the answer to the question posed.

 

The film is available, as the OP stated, for those who really want it. But, as there is no big call for it outside of this forum (that I'm aware of), there was no need to take the discussion to questions of its distribution over and above what is already available. There was also no need for people to be accused of "political correctness" for admitting they know that some people find the film offensive.

 

If one doesn't find the film offensive, that's fine. If one does, that's their prerogative and that's fine too.

 

It's always interesting how quickly a discussion can go off point - which most people are okay with, being that discussions travel their own path. But then we get someone who all of a sudden declares that the discussion shouldn't be meandering to the other areas where it has gone, even while altering the original topic himself.

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The question being asked by this thread is:

 

DOES ANYONE FIND SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) OFFENSIVE...?

 

It is not "Should Disney re-release this film?". That some people may find aspects of racial stereotyping in the movie and object to the film on that basis is just part of the answer to the question posed.

 

The film is available, as the OP stated, for those who really want it. But, as there is no big call for it outside of this forum (that I'm aware of), there was no need to take the discussion to questions of its distribution over and above what is already available. There was also no need for people to be accused of "political correctness" for admitting they know that some people find the film offensive.

 

If one doesn't find the film offensive, that's fine. If one does, that's their prerogative and that's fine too.

 

It's always interesting how quickly a discussion can go off point - which most people are okay with, being that discussions travel their own path. But then we get someone who all of a sudden declares that the discussion shouldn't be meandering to the other areas where it has gone, even while altering the original topic himself.

Sorry, TopBilled, this is patently false:

 

The main issue is whether or not a family film is indeed offensive to the vast majority of American audiences (and I suspect that it in reality is not).

 

The main issue, as darkblue quoted your original question, was:

 

DOES ANYONE FIND SONG OF THE SOUTH (1946) OFFENSIVE...?

 

Anyone is a long way away from 'vast majority of American audiences'. Then we're getting into the most territory of most of those most here wanting to see TCM remain exactly as it is.

 

I personally don't it offensive, and I personally want a separate and distinct TCM Classically Classic channel because I don't like TCM the way it is. I've never been part of the 'vast majority of American audiences' and never will, and never, ever, never will be part of the most here.

 

See the difference?

 

Again, I personally don't like anything, including the already in place practice of sanitizing books and movies and television and government records to wipe out all traces of controversy, that even hints at censorship. Didn't like it in 1967, don't like it now. It smacks too much of 1939 to me, thank you very much.

 

If most of the vast majority of American audience likes censorship, that's their prerogative. But, they can't complain when the evil comes.

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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I've got a great idea! To combat censorship and historical cleansing, let's all ask TCM to make Stepin Fetchit Star of the Month for January 2015! I'm sure we'd all love to hear Robert Osborne talk about how Fetchit was the first black actor to become a millionaire. It would be edifying, I'm sure.

You know jakeem you have a great idea for SOTM...I don't recall having had a SOTM for any African American actors other than Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte (can't remember if he was both a singer and an actor).  I would love a Sepin Fetchit, Eddie Anderson, Hattie McDaniel etc. day, if not just on their birthdays.   I know Saturday I was watching this silly Saturday morning movie about a ghost and the character Clarence was in almost as many scenes as the three stars but he wasn't listed on the second page of cast of characters but he added to what would have a really dull B Saturday movie. 

 

He truly was a great part of the movie as many others were, not just in GWTW, but Saratoga, Imitation of Life,  Since You Went Away,etc.   Good idea.

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Emily Dean, on 15 Sept 2014 - 2:13 PM, said:

 

I don't recall having had a SOTM for any African American actors other than Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte (can't remember if he was both a singer and an actor).  

 

 

Yes, Harry Belafonte was a great Calypso singer in addition to his work as an actor and producer. He also has been a human rights activist and humanitarian. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Science has announced he will be presented the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award at its annual Governors' Banquet on November 8th.

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Not sure about that, Andy. There are plenty of people who sincerely enjoy SONG OF THE SOUTH and hope to see it available commercially in the U.S. I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

I wish you would address how you have lurched from political correctness to criers of racism. Not all people who cry racism are politically correct. And not all advocates of political correctness have anti-racial slurs as their number one priority. When we leap from one classification to the other, we start to blur the issues. The main issue is whether or not a family film is indeed offensive to the vast majority of American audiences (and I suspect that it in reality is not). And the secondary issue is whether it should remain commercially unavailable in North America.

 

The subjects of racism and political correctness are much greater than the scope of this film discussion. I am sure you agree with me on that.

 

Well I agree with Andy here assuming TB that I understand your position here.   To me this comment by you is very telling:

 

I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

You see TB what I hear you saying is that anyone that finds the film offensive really doesn't and they are just saying they do because they wish to block the release of the film.    How do you know what motivates these people?   Because you found someone that is black that doesn't find the movie offensive?  

 

Again,  I feel no film should be censored and I will join anyone in writing to Disney to try to get them to release the film.   But I just don't understand why anyone would feel the need throw people that find the film offensive under the bus by claiming they really don't and therefore their POV is dishonest on its face.  

 

For example, how would white people, that wish to release the movie,  feel if the NAACP, Al, Jesse etc... said that the real motive of these white folks for wishing to release the film was just to promote racism?      Yea,  that would be totally unfair as well as insane.    

 

(hey, I can see Al or Jesse doing that but that doesn't make it A-OK,  far from it in my view).

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There are plenty of people who sincerely enjoy SONG OF THE SOUTH and hope to see it available commercially in the U.S.

 

Our stolen past and suppressed American heritage comes alive again, thanks to Black Historians:

 

 

Donald Griffin - The Wonderful Tar Baby Story

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkjnkKEZ5ZE

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If you have an "all region" DVD player you can order movies from the UK which will have movies not available in the US market...that is where I purchased my copy of Song of the South.   I like UK TV shows from the 1960's and 1970's and that is where I go to find my DVD sets of things I would never find over here.

 

For old radio shows I believe there is a store called Shout and that is where I bought CDs of Bob and Ray that my brother listened to.  I also was able to get "The Goldbergs" , both the radio and TV productions.  The issue of "The Goldbergs" appropriateness most likely belongs with the Jewish Perspective blog.  The Shout site, may G-d forbid, have Amos and Andy...

 

Anyway I have discovered if I want to see it, hear it, or read it I can usually find it at UK and even some websites in Canada.  The nice thing about AMEX...its recognized all over the world. 

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...The Shout site, may G-d forbid, have Amos and Andy...

 

 

Excuse me here Emily, but while I NOW know after readin' that "Failsafe" thread you think using certain words in posts that end up like this here-> ****** after they're entered, "lower the level of conversation"(or words to that effect), you DO realize that one CAN type in the WHOLE word "God" and PROBABLY not offend anyone around here, doncha?!! ;)

 

(...yeah yeah, I know...I'm a little stinker, ain't I) LOL

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RE:  SOTS.  Saw it many years ago, so remember a little of it.  However, I am sure that like many, many movies it is offensive to many people.  Like GWTW, it also presents a picture of the South that never was even close to true.

BTW, I am white and have lived in the South my entire life.  Majored in US History at a Southern college and took a lot of Southern history courses.

Just to be clear. POV means personal observation (observable?) view.  What you see from your head's viewpoint.  Personal opinion or personal viewpoint is what is being discussed in some of these threads.  Not the same thing.

You are incorrect to suggest there was no Southern Aristocracy that existed in the South as depicted by Gone With The Wind. Margaret Mitchell did her homework. She was spot on and won a Pulitzer prize for her

book. I've read a few books, too...

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Well I agree with Andy here assuming TB that I understand your position here.   To me this comment by you is very telling:

 

I don't think criers of racism, as you call them, are sincere-- they are if anything emphatic and determined to block the release of a family film.

 

You see TB what I hear you saying is that anyone that finds the film offensive really doesn't and they are just saying they do because they wish to block the release of the film.    How do you know what motivates these people?   Because you found someone that is black that doesn't find the movie offensive?  

 

Again,  I feel no film should be censored and I will join anyone in writing to Disney to try to get them to release the film.   But I just don't understand why anyone would feel the need throw people that find the film offensive under the bus by claiming they really don't and therefore their POV is dishonest on its face.  

 

For example, how would white people, that wish to release the movie,  feel if the NAACP, Al, Jesse etc... said that the real motive of these white folks for wishing to release the film was just to promote racism?      Yea,  that would be totally unfair as well as insane.    

 

(hey, I can see Al or Jesse doing that but that doesn't make it A-OK,  far from it in my view).

As you politely noted james, two out of these three are nuts.

 

Where is this Shout site? I'd love to see Amos and Andy again, the TV version that is.

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