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Deborah WHICH?


Sepiatone
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I notice today seems to be "Deborah Kerr day" on TCM, which, to me...begs he question.

 

Over the years I've heard a variety of film critics and movie hosts pronounce her name either :

 

"KERR" as in HER;

 

Or:   "KAR"....as in "car".

 

So, WHICH one is CORRECT?

 

Sepiatone

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You know, it's a little ironic that there seems to be an open-ended question about the pronunciation of Kerr's name; a 50-50 if you will- because it parallels how I sometimes feel about her as an actress.

 

I think (and so did she) that her finest performance is in The Innocents; she is sensational in that film. She's good in Black Narcissus, she's good in Tea and Sympathy (although the film isn't) she's good in Bonjour Tristesse. She's good in Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison, but frankly, I think she is outshone by Mitchum who is excellent. She's good in Night of the Iguana, but everyone else has better characters to play. She's terrific in The Sundowners.

 

and then on the other hand-

 

There are a lot of the times where I feel like she sort of coasts by on a quasi-parody of British priggishness and comes off as shrill to boot- sort of like when Eric Idle played women on Monty Python.  I have to say I don't care a bit for either her work in Dream Wife, The Hucksters, Edward My Son, (and brace yourself for this one:) An Affair to Remember (her performance pales next to the warmth of Irene Dunne's in the previous version) or the films themselves. I think she's miscast in From Here to Eternity, although she has good moments. I think her work in The End of the Affair is lacking. And it is to note, she was in  a lot of stuff that was basically junk- the 50's epics, King Soloman and Eye of the Devil included.

 

There are still plenty of her films I've yet to see, including The Journey, which has been highly recommended to me via Dargo and I missed it when it was on recently.

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You know, it's a little ironic that there seems to be an open-ended question about the pronunciation of Kerr's name; a 50-50 if you will- because it parallels how I sometimes feel about her as an actress.

 

I think her finest moment is in The Innocents; she is sensational in that film She's good in Black Narcissus, she's good in Tea and Sympathy (although the film isn't) she's good in Bonjour Tristesse. She's good in Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison, but frankly, I think she is outshone by Mitchum who is excellent. She's good in Night of the Iguana, but everyone else has better characters to play. She's terrific in The Sundowners.

 

and then on the other hand-

There's there's all the times where she sort of coasts on a quasi-parody of British priggishness and comes off as shrill at times- I have to say I don't care a bit for Dream Wife, The Hucksters, Edward My Son, (and brace yourself for this one:) An Affair to Remember (her performance pales next to the warmth of Irene Dunne's in the previous version). I think she's miscast in From Here to Eternity, although she has good moments. I think her work in The End of the Affair is lacking. And it is to note, she was in  alot of stuff that was basically junk- the 50's epics and Eye of the Devil included.

 

There are still plenty of her films I've yet to see, including The Journey, which has been highly recommended to me via Dargo and I missed it when it was on recently.

 

I really get where you coming from here.    I have been torn with Kerr's performance in From Here to Eternity for a long time.    Sometimes I feel she is just right.    That the 'comes off as shrill at times' is just what the part calls for.    To some degree it explains why her husband (who is a total jerk as it relates to his duties as an officer),  isn't a total jerk as a husband.    It also adds to why her and Burt only have an affair to remember instead of a lasting relationship.     But other times I just feel she is miscast!

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You know, it's a little ironic that there seems to be an open-ended question about the pronunciation of Kerr's name; a 50-50 if you will- because it parallels how I sometimes feel about her as an actress.

 

I think (and so did she) that her finest performance is in The Innocents; she is sensational in that film. She's good in Black Narcissus, she's good in Tea and Sympathy (although the film isn't) she's good in Bonjour Tristesse. She's good in Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison, but frankly, I think she is outshone by Mitchum who is excellent. She's good in Night of the Iguana, but everyone else has better characters to play. She's terrific in The Sundowners.

 

and then on the other hand-

 

There are a lot of the times where I feel like she sort of coasts by on a quasi-parody of British priggishness and comes off as shrill to boot- sort of like when Eric Idle played women on Monty Python.  I have to say I don't care a bit for either her work in Dream Wife, The Hucksters, Edward My Son, (and brace yourself for this one:) An Affair to Remember (her performance pales next to the warmth of Irene Dunne's in the previous version) or the films themselves. I think she's miscast in From Here to Eternity, although she has good moments. I think her work in The End of the Affair is lacking. And it is to note, she was in  a lot of stuff that was basically junk- the 50's epics, King Soloman and Eye of the Devil included.

 

There are still plenty of her films I've yet to see, including The Journey, which has been highly recommended to me via Dargo and I missed it when it was on recently.

 

They wanted Joan Crawford (believe it or not) for From Here To Eternity but changed their mind when Joan wanted to bring her own cameramen.

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They wanted Joan Crawford (believe it or not) for From Here To Eternity but changed their mind when Joan wanted to bring her own cameramen.

Yes, I have heard this. Another reason given as to why Joan refused to do FHTE is that she wanted Shelia O'Brien to do a high-end wardrobe for her. I've also heard (and I think this is the real reason) that she wanted the part built up... if that is indeed the case, then I think she was right: the role (as it is) is underwritten- she's an interesting character, but is pushed aside in the film's second half and doesn't have a satisfying resolution at the end.

 

Had Joan swallowed her ego though, I think she might've been great- and it would've been a better move than doing Torch Song- which she ended up making instead.

 

I also think Joan Fontaine would've been better than Kerr in FHTE, she also wanted to do it, but didn't get the chance.

 

I am still surprised they cast Kerr- not just because she hadn't played a really sexy role at the time, but also because of her nationality- she seems to be having to put forward a lot of effort to suppress her British accent throughout her scenes in the film in order to play an American.

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Yes, I have heard this. Another reason given as to why Joan refused to do FHTE is that she wanted Shelia O'Brien to do a high-end wardrobe for her. I've also heard (and I think this is the real reason) that she wanted the part built up... if that is indeed the case, then I think she was right: the role (as it is) is underwritten- she's an interesting character, but is pushed aside in the film's second half and doesn't have a satisfying resolution at the end.

 

Had Joan swallowed her ego though, I think she might've been great- and it would've been a better move than doing Torch Song- which she ended up making instead.

 

I also think Joan Fontaine would've been better than Kerr in FHTE, she also wanted to do it, but didn't get the chance.

 

I am still surprised they cast Kerr- not just because she hadn't played a really sexy role at the time, but also because of her nationality- she seems to be having to put forward a lot of effort to suppress her British accent throughout her scenes in the film in order to play an American.

When Rita Hayworth returned to making movies in 1951 or 52, after she gave up marriage to Prince Aly Khan, Columbia mogul Harry Cohn wanted her to do the role of Karen in FHTE. I don't remember why it didn't happen, other than Cohn wanted her in a movie in movie theaters asap, and FHTE wasn't ready to go before the cameras. So he.had a potboiler modeled on GILDA prepared.for Rita, AFFAIR IN TRINIDAD. Later, I think she didn't, or couldn't go on location to Hawaii, which is ironic, because in 1953 she filmed MISS SADIE THOMPSON there.

 

I think Hayworth would have been better than any of the other possible choices. It would've probably donebetter good for her career than what she did do around then: AIT, MST, and SALOME.

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Yes, I have heard this. Another reason given as to why Joan refused to do FHTE is that she wanted Shelia O'Brien to do a high-end wardrobe for her. I've also heard (and I think this is the real reason) that she wanted the part built up... if that is indeed the case, then I think she was right: the role (as it is) is underwritten- she's an interesting character, but is pushed aside in the film's second half and doesn't have a satisfying resolution at the end.

 

Had Joan swallowed her ego though, I think she might've been great- and it would've been a better move than doing Torch Song- which she ended up making instead.

 

I also think Joan Fontaine would've been better than Kerr in FHTE, she also wanted to do it, but didn't get the chance.

 

I am still surprised they cast Kerr- not just because she hadn't played a really sexy role at the time, but also because of her nationality- she seems to be having to put forward a lot of effort to suppress her British accent throughout her scenes in the film in order to play an American.

 

 

According to Joan (Fontaine) in her memoirs, she turned down the part, not wanting to be separated from her family (she was a single mother at the time) during filming in Hawaii. She later regretted her decision..........

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.I think Hayworth would have been better than any of the other possible choices. It would've probably donebetter good for her career than what she did do around then: AIT, MST, and SALOME.

Rita would've been perfect in that part, and her backstory would've made the role fit like a glove. Had she done it, she might've even gotten nominated for Best Actress (as Kerr did.)

 

I saw Salome the last time it was on TCM, Hoo boy! it is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Entertainingly bad, but baaaaaaaaaaad.

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back in the day, graham kerr hosted a cooking show called 'the galloping gourmet'.

 

he pronounced his name 'care'.

 

graham had a spin-off show (years later) called 'take kerr'.

 

"CARE" is a new one on me....Never heard ANYone use THAT.

 

Sepiatone

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When Rita Hayworth returned to making movies in 1951 or 52, after she gave up marriage to Prince Aly Khan, Columbia mogul Harry Cohn wanted her to do the role of Karen in FHTE. I don't remember why it didn't happen, other than Cohn wanted her in a movie in movie theaters asap, and FHTE wasn't ready to go before the cameras. So he.had a potboiler modeled on GILDA prepared.for Rita, AFFAIR IN TRINIDAD. Later, I think she didn't, or couldn't go on location to Hawaii, which is ironic, because in 1953 she filmed MISS SADIE THOMPSON there.

 

I think Hayworth would have been better than any of the other possible choices. It would've probably donebetter good for her career than what she did do around then: AIT, MST, and SALOME.

 

Arturo, I have to say I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention your gal Linda Darnell as a good fit for the Karen role, as it seems to me that role and how she disdains her husband in FHTE is a very similar character and a very similar marriage dynamic in how Darnell so well played the role of Paul Douglas' wife in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES, wouldn't you say?!

 

And, I could easily see Lancaster's character being intrigued enough by Darnell in order to carry on an affair with her, too.

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And btw, in regard to Deborah Kerr(as in "Star"...or so goes the story of how I believe it was Louis B. Mayer who decided that that was how her name was to be pronounced and by use of that rhyme), I have to say one of my favorite performances of hers is her portrayal of three different women in THE LIFE AND DEATH OF COLONEL BLIMP...one an upper-crust lady who befriends the lead character, one a bit of a lost waif who flowers into a loving wife of the lead character, and one a more earthy working class woman who's the personal assistant to the lead character. 

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Always said 'Karr' myself, which is the correct scottish pronunciation I believe. Someone should call Scotland and find out.

 

Deborah Kerr was somewhat of a ham. Nothing to be ashamed of, some of my favorite movie stars are complete hams. Comes from a formal training in live theater I would guess.

 

The King And I, wonderful film, wonderful music and both she and Yul Brynner hamming it up like billy-be-jiggered. Perfect.

 

Seperate Tables and From Here To Eternity where she starred with the king of ham himself, Burt Lancaster. Perfect. Black Narcissus and Perfect Strangers (I childishly refuse to refer to this film by its crummy American title Vacation From Marriage). Great films.

 

Within her limitations as an actress (am I allowed to say actress anymore?) she was great; and gorgeous to boot.

 

Best wishes
Metairie Road

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Arturo, I have to say I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention your gal Linda Darnell as a good fit for the Karen role, as it seems to me that role and how she disdains her husband in FHTE is a very similar character and a very similar marriage dynamic in how Darnell so well played the role of Paul Douglas' wife in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES, wouldn't you say?!

 

 

Arturo would likely be more of an expoit on all things Darnellian than I, but I'll speculate that even though this was a mere two years after A Letter to Three Wives and No Way Out, Linda had made a lot of bad movies in a short time- including Slattery's Hurricane. It was possible she was seen as old hat, and possible her reputation for drinking and/or volatile behavior lost her a fair share of parts. Also not sure if she was still under contract at Fox, but if she was, I doubt Daryl was willing to lend out her services.

 

This is just me expostulating here though.

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back in the day, graham kerr hosted a cooking show called 'the galloping gourmet'.

 

he pronounced his name 'care'.

 

graham had a spin-off show (years later) called 'take kerr'.

 

 

LOL. I'd forgotten all about him. Couldnt stand him..........

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Arturo, I have to say I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention your gal Linda Darnell as a good fit for the Karen role, as it seems to me that role and how she disdains her husband in FHTE is a very similar character and a very similar marriage dynamic in how Darnell so well played the role of Paul Douglas' wife in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES, wouldn't you say?!

 

And, I could easily see Lancaster's character being intrigued enough by Darnell in order to carry on an affair with her, too.

 

 

 

Geez. Who wouldnt???

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What's most amusing is how a thread about how to properly pronounce the name of actress Deborah Kerr at some point becomes a discussion about Linda Darnell and Rita Hayworth movie roles!

 

You guys should try the concept called "FOCUS"!

 

Sepiatone

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What's most amusing is how a thread about how to properly pronounce the name of actress Deborah Kerr at some point becomes a discussion about Linda Darnell and Rita Hayworth movie roles!

 

You guys should try the concept called "FOCUS"!

 

Sepiatone

 

No offense here Sepia ol' buddy, but I gotta say here that while I understand it was you who initiated this thread and thus would probably be the one most inclined to wish to keep it somewhat on track, I find for you to now introduce this concept of "focusing" into it after a short sidetracking by others who've mentioned actresses who might have possibly played a role Miss Kerr played a better than her did, is..well..I think ALMOST as incongruous a concept as if, say, either I or DownGoesFrazier would do the thing! LOL

 

(...'cause I think I've noticed your lack of "focus" on occasion in other threads around here too, ya know) ;)

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Arturo, I have to say I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention your gal Linda Darnell as a good fit for the Karen role, as it seems to me that role and how she disdains her husband in FHTE is a very similar character and a very similar marriage dynamic in how Darnell so well played the role of Paul Douglas' wife in A LETTER TO THREE WIVES, wouldn't you say?!

 

And, I could easily see Lancaster's character being intrigued enough by Darnell in order to carry on an affair with her, too.

Dargo,.believe me, I think Linda.Darnell would've fit.the part quite.well;.but I mentioned.Rita because her studio had considered her for.the role,.and all.the actresses mentioned.seemed.to have also been considered. Had Linda.done it,.or Rita.for that matter, while I think either would have been perfect, an Oscar nomination might not have been a sure thing. With Kerr,.she was playing against type, which is a big reason why she was nominated; ditto Donna Reed in the supporting category. Both Linda and Rita.would've been playing a role.fitting their images, so it wouldn't have been necessarily seen as something special or different enough to be nominated.

 

Of.course Burt would've taken to Linda.like (fill in your favorite analogy here).

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What's most amusing is how a thread about how to properly pronounce the name of actress Deborah Kerr at some point becomes a discussion about Linda Darnell and Rita Hayworth movie roles!

 

You guys should try the concept called "FOCUS"!

 

Sepiatone

Years ago the Philadelphia Flyers had a very good and popular player , Tim Kerr, and if I remember correctly it was always pronounced "Curr" . Of course that may be only the Canadian version of the name.   :)

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No offense here Sepia ol' buddy, but I gotta say here that while I understand it was you who initiated this thread and thus would probably be the one most inclined to wish to keep it somewhat on track, I find for you to now introduce this concept of "focusing" into it after a short sidetracking by others who've mentioned actresses who might have possibly played a role Miss Kerr played a better than her did, is..well..I think ALMOST as incongruous a concept as if, say, either I or DownGoesFrazier would do the thing! LOL

 

(...'cause I think I've noticed your lack of "focus" on occasion in other threads around here too, ya know) ;)

 

The topic of this thread doesn't cover a lot of ground.  So if one has to remained 'focused' than after two or three post there is NOTHING left to say and the thread should be shut down.    My point;  A thread with such a one-note topic needs to be sidetracked to remain interesting otherwise the creation of said thread is rather pointless.

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