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Rick2400

Fred MacMurray

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Yes, imo Fred was the HEAVY in The Apartment DGF you might want to read this to answer your question about Fred MacMurray and HIS take on HIS playing THE HEAVY in films

When MacMurray did this interview, he was, what, about 86?.....Maybe he wasn't in full command of his faculties. The word "heavy" must have originated in this context with respect to someone who threw his possibly substantial weight around, in a physical sense. Keefer and Sheldrake still do not meet the "smell test" for that. A villain, on the other hand, is apt to use cunning and duplicity

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Oh, c'mon now, lavender. Settle down. I wasn't "insulting" you here. What I was doin' was poking a little fun at the idea that YOU posited here about that whole "Old Boys Club" thing...that's all.

 

And just to reassure you here, I ALWAYS consider the things YOU say around here with the SAME weight as any of the male members(...wait a second, let me rephrase that...) with the same weight as any of those posited by any of the GUYS around here!

 

I assume you're aware that I was disagreeing with you (to a degree) in my reply to you.   i.e. that I felt the definition DGF and you were using for 'heavy' was too limiting.   You agreed by saying 'good point' since you're very opened minded.

 

What I find humorous is because of that exchange we became the heavies here!    :P

 

Oh well.   Not the first time and not the last!   Keep up the good work. 

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When MacMurray did this interview, he was, what, about 86?.....Maybe he wasn't in full command of his faculties. The word "heavy" must have originated in this context with respect to someone who threw his possibly substantial weight around, in a physical sense. Keefer and Sheldrake still do not meet the "smell test" for that. A villain, on the other hand, is apt to use cunning and duplicity

You are kidding Right????????????????? You need to read thru this thread, you don't have much support here in your definition of heavy and villains. And Fred was far from senile in that interview. Very uncalled for remark about Fred by you. I'm so done with this ridiculous thread and some of the unpleasant, silly posts.

 

HEAVY = VILLAIN -go thru the the thread and start counting who feels the 2 are interchangeable and who doesn't think so. Looks like you're the only one who feels that they are not the same

 

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I assume you're aware that I was disagreeing with you (to a degree) in my reply to you.   i.e. that I felt the definition finance and you were using for 'heavy' was too limiting.   You agreed by saying 'good point' since you're very opened minded.

 

What I find humorous is because of that exchange we became the heavies here!    :P

 

Oh well.   Not the first time and not the last!   Keep up the good work. 

Dargo? He ain't a heavy, he's my brother.

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When MacMurray did this interview, he was, what, about 86?.....Maybe he wasn't in full command of his faculties. The word "heavy" must have originated in this context with respect to someone who threw his possibly substantial weight around, in a physical sense. Keefer and Sheldrake still do not meet the "smell test" for that. A villain, on the other hand, is apt to use cunning and duplicity

 

I still feel your definition of 'heavy' is too limiting.   As I pointed out one can use the term to just mean the most disliked character in the film.  i.e. the one driving all the negative actions and outcome in a film. 

 

Take A Wonderful Life:  The heavy in this picture is the Lionel Barrymore character.   Yes, he isn't your typical heavy as define in noir or gangster films but he clearly is the 'heavy' from a plot device POV.     Plot device POV.    (repeated for effect).

 

To imply Fred was somehow impaired is really mean sprited.    Again,  my take is that Fred was referring to his roles in movies like The Apartment and Caine and not only his roles as a killer in noir films (Pushover being the other noir Fred did).

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I still feel your definition of 'heavy' is too limiting.   As I pointed out one can use the term to just mean the most disliked character in the film.  i.e. the one driving all the negative actions and outcome in a film. 

 

Take A Wonderful Life:  The heavy in this picture is the Lionel Barrymore character.   Yes, he isn't your typical heavy as define in noir or gangster films but he clearly is the 'heavy' from a plot device POV.     Plot device POV.    (repeated for effect).

 

To imply Fred was somehow impaired is really mean sprited.    Again,  my take is that Fred was referring to his roles in movies like The Apartment and Caine and not only his roles as a killer in noir films (Pushover being the other noir Fred did).

I'm not being mean spirited. I'm speaking from much experience . I have lived in my condo for 15 years, and have seen many  of the mostly elderly residents go from, say, their early '70s to  their late '80s. The change in their alertness, comprehension, and lucidity in many cases is extremely noticeable. These observations have provided tremendous incentive to me in my personal lifestyle.  

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When MacMurray did this interview, he was, what, about 86?.....Maybe he wasn't in full command of his faculties. The word "heavy" must have originated in this context with respect to someone who threw his possibly substantial weight around, in a physical sense. Keefer and Sheldrake still do not meet the "smell test" for that. A villain, on the other hand, is apt to use cunning and duplicity

 

Ahem...excuse me here DGF, but I'm thinkin' you should've maybe stuck with somethin' like my earlier "Toxic Flubber Theory" INSTEAD of playin' the "Age Card" here, dude!!! LOL

 

(...'cause at least THAT one sounds like we're blaming some "outside factor" for Fred in his "later years" callin' himself a "heavy"!!!) ;)

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Since this thread is getting "heavy" may I suggest re-visiting some of Fred's Disney movies.  He made 7 Disney films if I'm not mistaken (The Shaggy Dog / The Absent-Minded Professor / Bon Voyage! / Son of Flubber / Follow Me, Boys! / The Happiest Millionaire / Charley and the Angel).

 

     About a year or so ago I noted the BYU channel had leased a package of Disney films and 5 of the seven Disney flicks Fred made aired on BYU. 

 

    "The Happiest Millionaire" was a long movie!  They must have shown the full-length cut of the film.  The only two I didn't see aired at any time were "Bon Voyage!" and "Charley and the Angel" (1973).  All the others aired more than once.    

 

     ALSO:  If Fred MacMurray gave an interview at age 86 that would be most interesting since he didn't live to be 86.   ;)   (But I digress . . . apparently he was singing "Dem bones, dem bones . . . dem dry bones!").

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Since this thread is getting "heavy" may I suggest re-visiting some of Fred's Disney movies.  He made 7 Disney films if I'm not mistaken (The Shaggy Dog / The Absent-Minded Professor / Bon Voyage! / Son of Flubber / Follow Me, Boys! / The Happiest Millionaire / Charley and the Angel).

 

     About a year or so ago I noted the BYU channel had leased a package of Disney films and 5 of the seven Disney flicks Fred made aired on BYU. 

 

    "The Happiest Millionaire" was a long movie!  They must have shown the full-length cut of the film.  The only two I didn't see aired at any time were "Bon Voyage!" and "Charley and the Angel" (1973).  All the others aired more than once.    

 

     ALSO:  If Fred MacMurray gave an interview at age 86 that would be most interesting since he didn't live to be 86.   ;)   (But I digress . . . apparently he was singing "Dem bones, dem bones . . . dem dry bones!").

If he didn't live to be 86, what he said at his interview at 86 should then be viewed with all the more skepticism.

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If he didn't live to be 86, what he said at his interview at 86 should then be viewed with all the more skepticism.

Fred MacMurray died of Leukemia and Pneumonia  NOT Alzheimers Disease or Dementia. No where does it state he was senile in any way. DGF your comments about him are disrespectful and UNTRUE. Implying that his mind was not clear is unfounded. SHAME ON YOU

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Fred MacMurray died of Leukemia and Pneumonia  NOT Alzheimers Disease or Dementia. DGF your comments about him are disrespectful and UNTRUE. SHAME ON YOU

You don't have to have died pf dementia to be not what you once were at age 86...Read my recent post.

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This is the weakest argument you've come up with yet. Total BS. You really NEED to drop it already.

You can define Heavy or villain anyway you wish. Most of the rest of the world will define it as the same.  You should stick with what you know, maybe SPORTS and NOT films :)

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This is the weakest argument you've come up with yet. Total BS. You really NEED to drop it already.

You can define Heavy or villain anyway you wish. Most of the rest of the world will define it as the same.  You should stick with what you know, maybe SPORTS and NOT films :)

You are now playing the role of the heavy. :(........and I have come up with weaker arguments than this.

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There's too much fighting occurring in this thread. Maybe it needs to be shut-down as well...?

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There's too much fighting occurring in this thread. Maybe it needs to be shut-down as well...?

Nah, I'm done. Could really care less at this point, so if others want to continue they should. I have great respect for Fred MacMurray as an actor. He was also a very shrewd businessman and very bright and one of the wealthiest actors in Hollywood. There was nothing wrong with his mind. If ludicrous posts implying that something was wrong with Fred MacMurray's mind would CEASE, there would not be any argument.It would be great to move on and discuss his other films, since the sidetracking of this thread by that same poster finding fault with speedracers initial post of MacMurray being a heavy caused all of this.

 

So many of his other films and performances should be discussed, Fred and his films deserve a thread

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Normally I avoid lists but maybe it's time to create one now in order to celebrate an actor who was highly proficient in both comedy and drama.

 

MY TOP TEN FRED MacMURRAY FILMS:

 

1. Double Indemnity (1944)

 

doubleindemnity8_zpsb5b962af.jpg

 

MacMurray is great cast against type in one of the great film noirs of the genre. He and Stanwyck give memorable portrayals of corruption. Great support by Eddie Robinson.

 

2. The Apartment (1960)

 

apartment_zpsce36b1a3.jpg

 

Billy Wilder once against coming through in his casting of Fred, this time in a supporting role as a corporate rat. Very effective performance by MacMurray.

 

3. Murder He Says (1945)

 

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Hilarious, if somewhat bizarre, comedy, a blend of murder mystery and hillbilly farce.

 

4. Alice Adams (1935)

 

Primarily a showcase for Hepburn, but an early MacMurray scores quite well as the nice young man in a small town for whom she sets her cap.

 

5. The Caine Mutiny (1954)

 

Another one of MacMurray's rat characterizations. His performance holds up well amongst an outstanding ensemble cast of stars.

 

6. Pushover (1954)

 

More film noir for Fred, this time his obsession being a young Kim Novak. Who can blame him?

 

7. Hands Across the Table (1935)

 

Charming, silky smooth Paramount romantic comedy with Fred as a penniless young man encountering manicurist Carole Lombard, determined to marry a millionaire.

 

8. Remember the Night (1940)

 

Yet another romantic comedy-drama, penned by Preston Sturges, with Fred and Barbara Stanwyck making a good team.

 

9. Egg and I (1947)

 

Fun bucolic comedy, with married couple Fred and Claudette Colbert trying a farm lifestyle. Marjorie Main and Percy Kilbride were introduced as the Kettles in this film.

 

10. There's Always Tomorrow (1956)

 

Intelligent, sensitive soaper, with good performances by all, including that of Fred as a married family man who encounters old flame Stanwyck.

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And as we segue back to an overall discussion of Fred, his acting career, his business acumen(which I understand DID include being a bit of a tightwad) and his life in general, I present a "heavy" little musical interlude for your listening pleasure... 

 

 

 

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Nah, I'm done. Could really care less at this point, so if others want to continue they should. I have great respect for Fred MacMurray as an actor. He was also a very shrewd businessman and very bright and one of the wealthiest actors in Hollywood. There was nothing wrong with his mind. If ludicrous posts implying that something was wrong with Fred MacMurray's mind would CEASE, there would not be any argument.It would be great to move on and discuss his other films, since the sidetracking of this thread by that same poster finding fault with speedracers initial post of MacMurray being a heavy caused all of this.

 

So many of his other films and performances should be discussed, Fred and his films deserve a thread

The problem is we have too many personality clashes going on around here lately. And we have people that deliberately sidetrack threads, because they are not here to discuss classic film-- they are here to waste time. 

 

I bet half the people who post here do not have TCM, and if they do, they barely watch it. Because if they were watching it and focusing on the films, they would be posting more about it. And that's why these message boards were created in the first place. So if Turner decides to do away with these boards, it won't be because of budget-- it will be because there is little return on the investment. 

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Normally I avoid lists but maybe it's time to create one now in order to celebrate an actor who was highly proficient in both comedy and drama.

 

MY TOP TEN FRED MacMURRAY FILMS:

 

Your top ten does not include the film Fred MacMurray was most of proud of. And I feel that MURDER, HE SAYS is too high on this list.

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And as we segue back to an overall discussion of Fred, his acting career, his business acumen(which I understand DID include being a bit of a tightwad) and his life in general, I present a "heavy" little musical interlude for your listening pleasure... 

You're getting the thread off track again.

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You're getting the thread off track again.

 

It seems lavender isn't the only one lately who isn't "quite" getting the point of my (attempts at) humor lately.

 

Ya see TB, I ONLY inserted that little Beatles selection there in HOPES to GET this baby back on track.

 

(...'cause ya see, I was attempting to make light of all this talk about "heavy", and THEN move on)

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Your top ten does not include the film Fred MacMurray was most of proud of. And I feel that MURDER, HE SAYS is too high on this list.

If anyone feels they have a better top ten list than mine, bring 'er on.  :)

 

Murder he Says is a particular favourite of mine, MacMurray's best comedy in my opinion.

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My top ten list of MacMurray films.   

 

Double Indemnity

Hands Across the Table

Remember the Night

The Apartment

Swing High,  Swing Low

The Caine Munity

Pushover

The Princess Comes Across

No Time for Love

Take a Letter Darling

 

Ok, the list is heavy on Lombard,  but I love them as a team.

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