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get TV and this TV cutting in on TCM's audience


ElCid
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Just thought I would start this since it is far more accurate than the MeTV one.

Interesting. THIS TV is new to me, didn't know it existed. Partnered with one of the favorite channels from my youth, WPIX, no longer any good of course.

 

Thanks, TheCid. Sadly, they have commercials, but there you go.

 

Still and all, it's TCM who is cutting in on TCM's audience with the garbage it programs - did you see the horrid lineup it had yesterday? - so no, these other movie channels with commercials will never cut in on TCM.

 

TCM will be the cause of its own demise, well in this house at least. 98% of this board loves TCM just as it is.

 

La di da. Let the flames begin. :lol:

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Just thought I would start this since it is far more accurate than the MeTV one.

 

Well I think MOVIES is more accurate as it relates to TCM and viewership since MOVIES like TCM only shows movies and not T.V. shows.   (well TCM mostly movies).

 

MOVIES has those Columbia and Fox films that I wish TCM had, but sadly with commercials.   e.g.  last night I watched Framed.  A interesting Glen Ford,  1947,   noir with Janis Carter.

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Interesting. THIS TV is new to me, didn't know it existed. 

THIS has been around for a few years. They tend to show a lot of United Artists releases, which leads me to think that somewhere it falls under the vast Time Warner empire. So I don't think it would be seen as a competitor to TCM, because they share some of the same titles.

 

I don't have GET-TV on my cable system, but from what I understand it is Sony's version of a classic channel. Sony seems to have good relations with TCM (going all the way back to the first year of the channel). But yes, some Columbia films will be harder to find on TCM now if they are in rotation on GET-TV.

 

I think Me-TV is owned by Weigel Broadcasting out of Chicago, and since 2006 they have had exclusive deals with Universal to broadcast its television library and some of its film library.  

 

Then there's FXM Retro (formerly FMC)-- TCM did lease a bunch of Fox classics in the last two years, though that seems to be less and less now (probably due to Turner's budget issues).

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Interesting. THIS TV is new to me, didn't know it existed. Partnered with one of the favorite channels from my youth, WPIX, no longer any good of course.

 

Thanks, TheCid. Sadly, they have commercials, but there you go.

 

Still and all, it's TCM who is cutting in on TCM's audience with the garbage it programs - did you see the horrid lineup it had yesterday? - so no, these other movie channels with commercials will never cut in on TCM.

 

TCM will be the cause of its own demise, well in this house at least. 98% of this board loves TCM just as it is.

 

La di da. Let the flames begin. :lol:

it's these eclectic binges that tcm insists on going off on. them touchy-feely euro relationship flicks that tcm expects the rest of us to get all worked up over like them. sorry, cannot oblige. it was bad enough last nite having to listen to a guy Robert Osborne's age agree with everything that came outta Drew Barrymore's mouth about The Haunting.

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For information, MeTV, thisTV, getTV in my area are broadcast over the air by the local "network" stations (CBS, etc.) as part of their three channel deal with FCC.  So, this means if you have an antenna and are close enough, you can pick them up without cable, satellite, etc. if you have a broadcaster showing them.

It's interesting to see all the free shows that are coming over the air now.  In my area, I receive nine PBS stations, most with different programming.  Some of these additional channels are not carried by cable, satellite, etc.

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For information, MeTV, thisTV, getTV in my area are broadcast over the air by the local "network" stations (CBS, etc.) as part of their three channel deal with FCC.  So, this means if you have an antenna and are close enough, you can pick them up without cable, satellite, etc. if you have a broadcaster showing them.

It's interesting to see all the free shows that are coming over the air now.  In my area, I receive nine PBS stations, most with different programming.  Some of these additional channels are not carried by cable, satellite, etc.

 

The problem with over the air broadcast is that the station is subject to FCC censorship regulation.  e.g. MOVIES censors movies made in the 40s.    Their censorship of content goes beyond the FCC restrictions.   

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The problem with over the air broadcast is that the station is subject to FCC censorship regulation.  e.g. MOVIES censors movies made in the 40s.    Their censorship of content goes beyond the FCC restrictions.   

Right-- that's why I always find it funny when people get hung up on the production code of old Hollywood. Network television, via FCC regulation, has had its own production code since the 50s without any chance of it changing much or going away.

 

Your comment, James, is interesting because it shows that films that did meet the original production code standards obviously do not meet the FCC standards-- or else the standards of individual broadcast stations. Yes?

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THIS TV is a joint partnership between the Tribune Company and the current iteration of M-G-M. It debuted in 2008 and Weigel Broadcasting was involved in the channel (not sure if they still are).

 

Weigel also has an ownership in Me-TV.

 

MGM handles the advertising sales end of the channel and licenses some of the films from their post-1986 film library to the channel.

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Right-- that's why I always find it funny when people get hung up on the production code of old Hollywood. Network television, via FCC regulation, has had its own production code since the 50s without any chance of it changing much or going away.

 

Your comment, James, is interesting because it shows that films that did meet the original production code standards obviously do not meet the FCC standards-- or else the standards of individual broadcast stations. Yes?

 

Yes,  that is why what MOVIES is doing (going beyond the current FCC standard) is so odd to me.    To censor breast on a work of art from a film made in the 40s (The Dark Corner),  shown after 9:00 PM,  is insane.   

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Well I think MOVIES is more accurate as it relates to TCM and viewership since MOVIES like TCM only shows movies and not T.V. shows.   (well TCM mostly movies).

 

MOVIES has those Columbia and Fox films that I wish TCM had, but sadly with commercials.   e.g.  last night I watched Framed.  A interesting Glen Ford,  1947,   noir with Janis Carter.

What is MOVIES?  Never heard of it.

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THIS TV is a joint partnership between the Tribune Company and the current iteration of M-G-M. It debuted in 2008 and Weigel Broadcasting was involved in the channel (not sure if they still are).

 

Weigel also has an ownership in Me-TV.

 

MGM handles the advertising sales end of the channel and licenses some of the films from their post-1986 film library to the channel.

 I love THIS TV. THIS TV has been broadcasting my favorite classic tv show, HIGHWAY PATROL, on most weekday mornings at 5 am. Fortunately I can easily record the shows for later viewing.

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it's these eclectic binges that tcm insists on going off on. them touchy-feely euro relationship flicks that tcm expects the rest of us to get all worked up over like them. sorry, cannot oblige. it was bad enough last nite having to listen to a guy Robert Osborne's age agree with everything that came outta Drew Barrymore's mouth about The Haunting.

 

Well DANG! I'm sorry I missed that.

 

(...so tell me ND, how many sets of socks did little Drew tell Bob and the television viewing audience were knocked off her feet while she watched what I think is still one of the scariest movies ever made????) LOL

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What is MOVIES?  Never heard of it.

 

MOVIES is a station that features only movies.    They are co-owned by Fox so they show mostly Fox and Columbia films.   A majority of the movies are from the 40s - 60s.    So they tend to show movies that TCM doesn't (e.g. Susan Hayward,  Gene Tierney,  Linda Darnell,  Tyrone Power and other Fox contract stars).     They do NOT cut content to fit a fixed time slot but they do censor content and they have commercials.    MOVIES also has a lot of repeats (e.g.  they will show a film, then another one,  and then the former film yet again all in the same day).   So the same movie may be shown over 5 times in a week.

 

Still I find myself watching them when TCM is showing a movie I have seen multiple times especially on Saturday night,  which is Noir night (at least 3 noir films and Fox released made some good ones).

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I watch Movies! quite a bit too, but the picture keeps moving to the right so that any actors on that side of the screen are cut off. If I turn to another channel and back again, it corrects itself. Anybody else having this issue? It's the only channel I get that does that.

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I know for some folks around here the discussion that takes place frequently on several older threads and severl newer threads is how TCM MUST be losing viewers to GET-TV, ME-TV, THIS-TV, COZY-TV and the other over the air tv channels showing old movies and tv shows. What I am about to post is a question and answer session at the 2013 TCM Classic Film Festival covering ratings.

 

It is important to remind folks around here that TCM does not use ratings to gauge how many people are watching their movies and or other programming. So the title of this thread is somewhat misleading....

 

The following was posted on Will McKinley's blog after he had attended the festival. McKinley is a New York City-based writer, producer and classic film obsessive. He’s been a guest on Turner Classic Movies (interviewed by host Robert Osborne), Sirius Satellite Radio and the TCM podcast. Will has written for PBS and his byline has appeared more than 100 times in the pages of NYC alt weeklies like The Villager and Gay City News.

 

Update #3: 10 Things I Learned at the TCM Classic Film Festival

One of my favorite things about the annual TCM Classic Film Festival is meeting and interacting with the talented people who bring the channel to life. In addition to impromptu chats at screenings and during communal gatherings at the Roosevelt Hotel, two scheduled events gave passholders and credentialed media like me (don’t hate) an opportunity to question key members of the Turner Classic Movies staff. These sessions provided a rare opportunity to look “behind the curtain” at our favorite channel without a trip down the Yellowbrick Road to Atlanta.


 

The day before the 2013 edition of the Festival began, Robert Osborne, Ben Mankiewicz, vice president of programming Charlie Tabesh (a 16-year veteran of the channel), and festival managing director Genevieve MacGillicuddy addressed reporters and bloggers for a combined ninety minutes. The following day, TCM senior writer/producer Scott McGee moderated Meet TCM, a panel featuring six senior staffers: Tabesh, general manager Jeff Gregor; Pola Chagnon, vice president and creative director for TCM On-Air; V.P. of original production Tom Brown; Richard Steiner, vice president of digital activation; and Sean Cameron, vice president of studio production.

TCM DOESN’T CARE ABOUT RATINGS.
 

Ever since the channel formerly known as American Movie Classics stopped showing, well, American movie classics, and started airing commercials, some TCM viewers have feared the same fate. Conspiracy theorists bemoan broadcasts of more recent releases, suspecting a secret strategy to alter programming, even though a thorough review of the monthly schedule usually indicates a consistent breakdown by decade, month after month (with one obvious exception).
 

“There’s no specific agenda or intent to bring in newer movies,” Tabesh said. “It happens naturally some times, as we program thematically and we want to go in depth with whatever theme, whatever star we’re looking at. And sometimes that context leads us to newer movies.”
 

He went on to acknowledge that during one month of the year, he does intentionally program more recent films.“(During) 31 Days of Oscar, which was a couple months ago, if the movie won an Academy Award, we’re not going to shy away from it if it’s more contemporary. And I think you’ll tend to see more contemporary movies in that month than you will in others,” he said. “There’s no cutoff date, no strict definition for classic, other than, ‘What’s the context in which we’re playing it?’”
 

Ben Mankiewicz backed up this perspective during the Wednesday afternoon event.
“We have a very open mind as to what makes a classic movie. It’s not really about years removed from a movie’s release that makes it okay,” the host said. “We always, always want to find something that will be relevant and emotional for our audience to see.”

 

“(O)ur programming won’t change,” Mankiewicz added. “Nothing is going to stop us from showing the movies we already show.”
 

On Wednesday, Tabesh was asked how much pressure he was under to generate high ratings.
“Zero. We don’t get ratings. We’re not even allowed to get ratings,” he said. “When AMC went commercial many years ago, the cable affiliates freaked out, because they were getting a lot of complaints from subscribers and they wanted to make sure that TCM never added commercials. And we’ve never have plans to add commercials. I think it’s actually written into some of our affiliate agreements.”

 

“It’s not only important from a business perspective that we remain commercial-free, but we know that is the core of the TCM brand,” festival managing director Genevieve MacGillicuddy added. “That’s extremely important for fans, for the network, for the vision of what the network is. And we’re very proud of having stayed true to what that vision was for the network when we launched in 1994.”
 

Tabesh added: “We’re not trying to reach a broad audience. We’re not trying to maximize the demo. We’re not trying to get the 18-34, whatever it is. There’s none of that that’s considered at all.”
So get off the ledge, people.

 

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I know for some folks around here the discussion that takes place frequently on several older threads and severl newer threads is how TCM MUST be losing viewers to GET-TV, ME-TV, THIS-TV, COZY-TV and the other over the air tv channels showing old movies and tv shows. What I am about to post is a question and answer session at the 2013 TCM Classic Film Festival covering ratings.

 

It is important to remind folks around here that TCM does not use ratings to gauge how many people are watching their movies and or other programming. So the title of this thread is somewhat misleading....

 

The following was posted on Will McKinley's blog after he had attended the festival. McKinley is a New York City-based writer, producer and classic film obsessive. He’s been a guest on Turner Classic Movies (interviewed by host Robert Osborne), Sirius Satellite Radio and the TCM podcast. Will has written for PBS and his byline has appeared more than 100 times in the pages of NYC alt weeklies like The Villager and Gay City News.

 

Update #3: 10 Things I Learned at the TCM Classic Film Festival

 

One of my favorite things about the annual TCM Classic Film Festival is meeting and interacting with the talented people who bring the channel to life. In addition to impromptu chats at screenings and during communal gatherings at the Roosevelt Hotel, two scheduled events gave passholders and credentialed media like me (don’t hate) an opportunity to question key members of the Turner Classic Movies staff. These sessions provided a rare opportunity to look “behind the curtain” at our favorite channel without a trip down the Yellowbrick Road to Atlanta.

 

 

The day before the 2013 edition of the Festival began, Robert Osborne, Ben Mankiewicz, vice president of programming Charlie Tabesh (a 16-year veteran of the channel), and festival managing director Genevieve MacGillicuddy addressed reporters and bloggers for a combined ninety minutes. The following day, TCM senior writer/producer Scott McGee moderated Meet TCM, a panel featuring six senior staffers: Tabesh, general manager Jeff Gregor; Pola Chagnon, vice president and creative director for TCM On-Air; V.P. of original production Tom Brown; Richard Steiner, vice president of digital activation; and Sean Cameron, vice president of studio production.

 

TCM DOESN’T CARE ABOUT RATINGS.

 

Ever since the channel formerly known as American Movie Classics stopped showing, well, American movie classics, and started airing commercials, some TCM viewers have feared the same fate. Conspiracy theorists bemoan broadcasts of more recent releases, suspecting a secret strategy to alter programming, even though a thorough review of the monthly schedule usually indicates a consistent breakdown by decade, month after month (with one obvious exception).

 

“There’s no specific agenda or intent to bring in newer movies,” Tabesh said. “It happens naturally some times, as we program thematically and we want to go in depth with whatever theme, whatever star we’re looking at. And sometimes that context leads us to newer movies.”

 

He went on to acknowledge that during one month of the year, he does intentionally program more recent films.“(During) 31 Days of Oscar, which was a couple months ago, if the movie won an Academy Award, we’re not going to shy away from it if it’s more contemporary. And I think you’ll tend to see more contemporary movies in that month than you will in others,” he said. “There’s no cutoff date, no strict definition for classic, other than, ‘What’s the context in which we’re playing it?’”

 

Ben Mankiewicz backed up this perspective during the Wednesday afternoon event.

“We have a very open mind as to what makes a classic movie. It’s not really about years removed from a movie’s release that makes it okay,” the host said. “We always, always want to find something that will be relevant and emotional for our audience to see.”

 

“(O)ur programming won’t change,” Mankiewicz added. “Nothing is going to stop us from showing the movies we already show.”

 

On Wednesday, Tabesh was asked how much pressure he was under to generate high ratings.

“Zero. We don’t get ratings. We’re not even allowed to get ratings,” he said. “When AMC went commercial many years ago, the cable affiliates freaked out, because they were getting a lot of complaints from subscribers and they wanted to make sure that TCM never added commercials. And we’ve never have plans to add commercials. I think it’s actually written into some of our affiliate agreements.”

 

“It’s not only important from a business perspective that we remain commercial-free, but we know that is the core of the TCM brand,” festival managing director Genevieve MacGillicuddy added. “That’s extremely important for fans, for the network, for the vision of what the network is. And we’re very proud of having stayed true to what that vision was for the network when we launched in 1994.”

 

Tabesh added: “We’re not trying to reach a broad audience. We’re not trying to maximize the demo. We’re not trying to get the 18-34, whatever it is. There’s none of that that’s considered at all.”

So get off the ledge, people.

 

 

While there is so useful info here related to how TCM decides what movies they show I feel Tabesh didn't address the million dollar question and instead ducked it with his comments about ratings.

 

Ok, TCM doesn't care about ratings.   Yea,  we all know that.  BUT how is the rate cable companies and other outlets like DISH and Direct TV pay determined?   These are the real questions I want answered and talking about ratings that don't exist is just spin.

 

E.g.  is the TCM fee always bundled into the overall fee Turner charged for all of their stations and Turner will never split up their stations?  i.e. allow a cable company to only purchase CNN and TBS but NOT TCM?   Does a cable company have the legal right to split off TCM from other Turner stations and charge viewers a separate fee for access?        

 

This comment wasn't very professional:  "I think it’s actually written into some of our affiliate agreements.”

 

He should actually KNOW.    I assume he does but just doesn't wish to be up-front about it.

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Ok, TCM doesn't care about ratings.   Yea,  we all know that.  

 

 

But we don't all believe it. Personally I think the budget crisis at Turner is occurring because they have a way of measuring growth (maybe not ratings per se but some other instrument) and they know that they are losing audience due to increasing competition.

 

Also when I was chosen to do a week-long Nielsen survey last March I called the number on the back of the booklet-- and I asked them about TCM. I said that I watched TCM more than network television but that if it didn't count, why write it down? The answer I got was that all viewing counts. So even if TCM is claiming they are not using the data, Nielsen is. Big brother Nielsen knows if people are watching TCM (and not watching something else)-- or if people are no longer watching TCM (and watching something else).

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This comment wasn't very professional:  "I think it’s actually written into some of our affiliate agreements.”

 

He should actually KNOW.    I assume he does but just doesn't wish to be up-front about it.

 

It's not really any of your business, is it? Whatever contracts TCM has with other businesses with regard to content or carrying costs are confidential to those parties.

 

Your only "business" here is to watch what TCM provides through your carrier or not to watch what TCM provides through your carrier.

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It's not really any of your business, is it? Whatever contracts TCM has with other businesses with regard to content or carrying costs are confidential to those parties.

 

Your only "business" here is to watch what TCM provides through your carrier or not to watch what TCM provides through your carrier.

 

I agree it is none of my business but he was giving a public interview and not just talking to me.    If he felt this type of info shouldn't be disclosed to the public he should of just said so.    e.g. saying 'the agreements are confidential'.    Instead he looks like he doesn't know or isn't sure.   To me that is unprofessional.

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Instead he looks like he doesn't know or isn't sure. To me that is unprofessional.

To be fair, Tabesh is listed as "Vice President of Programming". It wouldn't be a surprise if the "affiliate agreements" really were somebody else's job and Tabesh didn't know.
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To be fair, Tabesh is listed as "Vice President of Programming". It wouldn't be a surprise if the "affiliate agreements" really were somebody else's job and Tabesh didn't know.

Fedya,

 

What's happening here is that we have people who keep quoting Tabesh and now someone comes along (james) and calls some of it into question. That was inevitable.

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To be fair, Tabesh is listed as "Vice President of Programming". It wouldn't be a surprise if the "affiliate agreements" really were somebody else's job and Tabesh didn't know.

 

I see your point.   But I was trained that when speaking to the public when I don't know something than I don't comment on it.  I was just talking to a employee that reports to me and uses basically all the time.   e.g.  when asked 'has the software been tested?' he will answer 'we are basically done'.     I told him;  hey if my wife asks me 'have you been cheating on me' and I answer 'basically no',  I'm still going to be hit with the frying pan!  

 

Anyhow,   here is hoping the business model for Turner doesn't change enough that we see changes to TCM that I wouldn't welcome.

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But we don't all believe it. Personally I think the budget crisis at Turner is occurring because they have a way of measuring growth (maybe not ratings per se but some other instrument) and they know that they are losing audience due to increasing competition.

 

Also when I was chosen to do a week-long Nielsen survey last March I called the number on the back of the booklet-- and I asked them about TCM. I said that I watched TCM more than network television but that if it didn't count, why write it down? The answer I got was that all viewing counts. So even if TCM is claiming they are not using the data, Nielsen is. Big brother Nielsen knows if people are watching TCM (and not watching something else)-- or if people are no longer watching TCM (and watching something else).

tcm insisted on getting much too cute too much of the time with their eclectic binges. :D

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