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slaytonf

That's a nice car!

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LOL

 

Not a big fan of the muscle-headed Austrian either, are ya slayton?! ;)

 

(...btw...I think I'd like to change that fake movie title I made up for the guy down there...how does "You Were Maid For Me..And Much More" sound to ya instead?)

 

 

 

Every place has its dark time, I guess.  Even California.

 

(I'm afraid I don't get the references, I'm happy to say.)

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Rest assured all.

 

I was NOT referring to THAT "Ah-nold"  ;)

 

But rather ARNOLD ZIFFEL.  :D

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

 

Oh, good.

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Every place has its dark time, I guess.  Even California.

 

(I'm afraid I don't get the references, I'm happy to say.)

 

In that case I won't explain 'em to ya.

 

(...and besides as they say, "If you have to explain your joke(s), they're usually not funny, McGee") 

 

;)

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and also the bachelor vehicle that says you could be a future family man:

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind a "bachelor wagon" if its fully stocked ;)

 

 

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I wouldn't mind a "bachelor wagon" if its fully stocked ;)

 

:o

 

I certainly hope you DON'T mean stocked with BACHELORS!  B)

 

 

Sepiatone

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and also the bachelor vehicle that says you could be a future family man:

 

 

As a side-thought on the concept of a station wagon type of vehicle as a bachelor-wagon, the same exact thing happened to me with a Dodge Grand Caravan minivan.  Oddly enough back in the 1980s it was the station wagon that Lee Iococca started out with when he designed the first Dodge Caravan (actually with the intent to combine the Station Wagon and the Dodge Ram Van into one unified vehicle).  On those first-generation vehicles they didn't quite have the acoustics issues worked out yet.  I could still hear some nuts and bolts hardware rattling, just like with the full sized vans, as I drove down the country backroads.  They were fun though.

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As a side-thought on the concept of a station wagon type of vehicle as a bachelor-wagon, the same exact thing happened to me with a Dodge Grand Caravan minivan.  Oddly enough back in the 1980s it was the station wagon that Lee Iococca started out with when he designed the first Dodge Caravan (actually with the intent to combine the Station Wagon and the Dodge Ram Van into one unified vehicle).  On those first-generation vehicles they didn't quite have the acoustics issues worked out yet.  I could still hear some nuts and bolts hardware rattling, just like with the full sized vans, as I drove down the country backroads.  They were fun though.

 

MCOH, this talk of the minivans now reminds me of a vehicle from which many believe Lee Iococca drew inspiration, the Brubaker Box...

 

rkdi3eda5gzd8th2alsi.jpg

 

This was the brainchild of one Curtis Brubaker back in the late-'60s, and when the chassis of the VW Beetle would become the basis for various custom-built vehicles during that era.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brubaker_Box

 

In film, a Brubaker Box can be briefly seen during the "tree museum" scene(btw and speakin' o' which, don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?...sorry, couldn't resist) in 1973's SOYLENT GREEN here...

 

i452817.jpg

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Hey!

 

Don't that BRUBAKER BOX kind of remind anyone of those mid-'80's TOYOTA minivans? 

 

Sepiatone

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:o

 

I certainly hope you DON'T mean stocked with BACHELORS!  B)

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Oh, I meant the amenites and gadgets. And if the female company came along, that would be nice too ! :D

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MCOH, this talk of the minivans now reminds me of a vehicle from which many believe Lee Lococca drew inspiration, the Brubaker Box...

 

rkdi3eda5gzd8th2alsi.jpg

 

This was the brainchild of one Curtis Brubaker back in the late-'60s, and when the chassis of the VW Beetle would become the basis for various custom-built vehicles during that era.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brubaker_Box

 

That's interesting.  I hadn't heard about those before.  I used to know a guy who drove a VW mini-bus up until the mid 2000s.  The side doors here look like a similar concept to the modern mini-van.  The chassis is much different though, especially the cab-over front - like a mini Peterbilt.  I can see where there might be some cross-pollination.  Outside of Iococca's internal vehicles to draw inspiration from, he probably had his outside inspiration too.

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MCOH, this talk of the minivans now reminds me of a vehicle from which many believe Lee Iococca drew inspiration, the Brubaker Box...

 

 

 

This was the brainchild of one Curtis Brubaker back in the late-'60s, and when the chassis of the VW Beetle would become the basis for various custom-built vehicles during that era.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brubaker_Box

 

In film, a Brubaker Box can be briefly seen during the "tree museum" scene(btw and speakin' o' which, don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?...sorry, couldn't resist) in 1973's SOYLENT GREEN here...

 

 

Read where Iococcoa got the inspiration from the Dodge Pick-up and Dodge delivery van.  Thought combining the two into one family oriented vehicle would be good, especially as a replacement for the station wagon.

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Thanks, hamradio, for the Isotta Fraschini Tipo 8A Cabriolet (1924).  Yum.  And we can see it in movies like Foreign Correspondent (1940), Rebecca (1940), Giant (1956), and Mulholland Dr. (2001), according to the IMCDB.  Here's the entire page listing appearances:

 

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Isotta+Fraschini&model=Tipo+8A&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on

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Thanks, hamradio, for the Isotta Fraschini Tipo 8A Cabriolet (1924).  Yum.  And we can see it in movies like Foreign Correspondent (1940), Rebecca (1940), Giant (1956), and Mulholland Dr. (2001), according to the IMCDB.  Here's the entire page listing appearances:

 

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Isotta+Fraschini&model=Tipo+8A&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=on

 

Excellent website for identifying cars in movies.

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Notwithstanding the half-way interesting Bentley on tonight's Paris When it Sizzles (1964), I have opted for Saturday's Zabriskie Point (1970), and its  1952 Buick Special 2-door Tourback Sedan:

 

b1qu8.6441.jpg

 

Normally I don't go for these types of cars.  They look like marshmallows on steroids to me.  But this one has something to it.  The whitewalls don't hurt.

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Notwithstanding the half-way interesting Bentley on tonight's Paris When it Sizzles (1964), I have opted for Saturday's Zabriskie Point (1970), and its  1952 Buick Special 2-door Tourback Sedan:

 

b1qu8.6441.jpg

 

Normally I don't go for these types of cars.  They look like marshmallows on steroids to me.  But this one has something to it.  The whitewalls don't hurt.

A friend has a 2006 Mercury Marquis as a "secondary" driver.  Keeps it because it is a big, comfortable car.

His wife and I tried to convince him that he needs to get wide whitewall tires for it.

 

One of the interesting things about cars (and advertising) of the 40's through 60's is that most advertising showed illustrations of the cars rather than actual pictures.  The illustrators usually took artistic license to show them longer and lower than they really were.

They even went to extreme of showing the people inside smaller than in reality.

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From tonight's The Barefoot Contessa (1954), an Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS Cabriolet:

 

i051460.jpg

 

This is not the best angle to view its lines.  Here's a better:

 

alfa-romeo_6c_1947_photos_3_b.jpg

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Has anyone else here seen the HISTORY channel's three day presentation of THE CARS THAT MADE AMERICA?

 

I thought it was OK, but lacking in that it concentrated mostly on Ford, and the big 3 in general.  No mention of the OTHER early Detroit auto manufacturers like RICKENBACKER,  PACKARD,  HUDSON,  MAXWELL, AMERICAN MOTORS  which all did brisk business early on but just couldn't keep up.  Maxwell was absorbed by Chrysler,  and American motors absorbed NASH and moved it's operations from Wisconson.  AMC also rolled Hudson into it's fold.

 

But none of that mattered to the producers of the show, making Ford, GM and Chrysler the focus of their view of the American auto industry.

 

And they played around a bit with some of the chronology,  jumping back and forth in time.  But interesting to see anyway.  It did have some interesting old film and photos of old Detroit, and a few scenes did seem to be shot at Ford's old FAIRLANE estate, still standing and now a tourist, events venue in Dearborn, MI. (I had occasion to shoot a few weddings there)

 

 

Sepiatone

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Has anyone else here seen the HISTORY channel's three day presentation of THE CARS THAT MADE AMERICA?

 

I thought it was OK, but lacking in that it concentrated mostly on Ford, and the big 3 in general.  No mention of the OTHER early Detroit auto manufacturers like RICKENBACKER,  PACKARD,  HUDSON,  MAXWELL, AMERICAN MOTORS  which all did brisk business early on but just couldn't keep up.  Maxwell was absorbed by Chrysler,  and American motors absorbed NASH and moved it's operations from Wisconson.  AMC also rolled Hudson into it's fold.

 

But none of that mattered to the producers of the show, making Ford, GM and Chrysler the focus of their view of the American auto industry.

 

And they played around a bit with some of the chronology,  jumping back and forth in time.  But interesting to see anyway.  It did have some interesting old film and photos of old Detroit, and a few scenes did seem to be shot at Ford's old FAIRLANE estate, still standing and now a tourist, events venue in Dearborn, MI. (I had occasion to shoot a few weddings there)

 

 

Sepiatone

I've missed it so far.  Did read the descriptions on the cable info pop-up and sounded too much was devoted to early (ca. 1900).  May try and watch it On Demand (if available) so I can fast forward through it.

There are a fairly good number of low cost DVD's and sets available now on cars.  These are television ads (from 50's and 60's) or promos that were done in 40's through 70's.  Some are obviously documentaries, but not sure for what purpose.

I think the promos were provided to dealers to train sales staff, to local TV stations to use as fillers and maybe even to movie theaters for fillers or advetising.  Some were probably used back in the day when new car dealers travelled to the corporate HQ for the premiere of the new cars.

American Motors was actually created in 1954 with the merger of Nash-Kelvinator and Hudson.  One of Nash's most popular vehicles was the Rambler.  Soon after George Romney took over AMC, he closed out both Nash and Hudson and focused strictly on smaller Ramblers.

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They showed all three as a consecutive program last night.

 

The shows did cover the early 1900's period through to the mid '60's and the introduction of Ford's Mustang.  A follow-up program about cars in America did get into the "muscle caar" era and a bit beyond,  And little tidbits were left out or glossed over.  Like Henry Ford II refusing to give the OK for the Mustang until Iacocca put in a back seat.  Iacocca wanted it to be a two seater, according to his book "IACOCCA:  An Autobiography".

 

 

Sepiatone

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They showed all three as a consecutive program last night.

 

The shows did cover the early 1900's period through to the mid '60's and the introduction of Ford's Mustang.  A follow-up program about cars in America did get into the "muscle caar" era and a bit beyond,  And little tidbits were left out or glossed over.  Like Henry Ford II refusing to give the OK for the Mustang until Iacocca put in a back seat.  Iacocca wanted it to be a two seater, according to his book "IACOCCA:  An Autobiography".

 

 

Sepiatone

Did find second episode On Demand and it was interesting.  Don't think there was anything I didn't already know though.  Will try to find episodes one and three.

Henry Ford II may have learned from Robert McNamara about four passenger vs. two passenger cars.  Sales of the Thunderbird about quadrulped when they went to a four seater in 1958.  This saved the T-bird as Ford would not have likely kept it as a competitor to Corvette.  GM has much deeper pockets than Ford or Chrysler as this was pointed out in the shows.

Guess I'll have to see if it is Ep. 3, but Edsel Ford died of stomach cancer from ulcers that Henry gave him.

Supposedly FDR and others in DC thought that Henry would ruin Ford when he took over after Edsel died, so they pursuaded him to let them bring Henry II back from Navy to run the company.  Ford was a vital part of defense industry at the time.  Most Jeeps were actually made by Ford for instance.

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The Thunderbird was originally Ford's answer to Chevrolet's Corvette and did  give it a good run for it's money.  But not good enough, so making it a four-seater certainly did save the model.  When Iacocca came on board, he thought to make the Mustang another attempt to challenge the 'Vette, but apparently Ford II didn't want to go through that again.

 

However, notice....the newer T-Birds (2002-'05) WERE again two-seaters(and I thought they were pretty nice) but didn't do well enough to survive past 2005.

 

 

Sepiatone

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The Thunderbird was originally Ford's answer to Chevrolet's Corvette and did  give it a good run for it's money.  But not good enough, so making it a four-seater certainly did save the model.  When Iacocca came on board, he thought to make the Mustang another attempt to challenge the 'Vette, but apparently Ford II didn't want to go through that again.

 

However, notice....the newer T-Birds (2002-'05) WERE again two-seaters(and I thought they were pretty nice) but didn't do well enough to survive past 2005.

 

 

Sepiatone

Not quite.  While the T-bird was built partially in reaction to the Corvette, it was also an answer to a question Henry Ford II raised at a European autoshow - Why doesn't Ford have a car like this?  He was referencing the European sports cars, but they were a level or two above Corvette.

The original 1953 Corvette was a pure sports car.  6 cylinder engines, no roll up windows, no creature comforts.

The Thunderbird was a personal luxury car.  V8 engine, high level of creature comforts and power equipment.  In its first year it outsold Corvette 23 to 1.  Something like 20,000 to 700 and that was 3 years after Corvette hit the market.

Arguably, the T-Bird is what saved the Corvette.  Due to extremely low sales (less than 1,000 per year), GM considered axing it.  But then ego came into play and they couldn't let the T-Bird go unchallenged.  So they put a V8 in the 'Vette, roll up windows, better interior, etc.

One aspect that sometimes gets overlooked in that the auto industry is a business.  If you want to be a major player, you need to sell a lot of cars.  So you have to sell what people want to buy.  When you are looking to sell 500,000 to one million a year,  20,000 doesn't cut it.  Lots of R&D costs, as well as manufacturing, marketing, etc. with little profit.  Ford was number two as a corporation vs. GM.

GM had and still has very deep pockets compared to other companies.  They can afford a relatively low profit halo car.

 

 

As for the 2002-2005 T-Bird, Ford never intended for it to sell for very long.  It was mostly a marketing gimmick to bring attention to Ford and maybe increase showroom traffic.  If it had sold better, maybe they would have changed their minds.

But by 2002, the two-seater market for sporty cars or personal luxury cars was flooded compared to the demand.  Lots of European and Japanese competition.

I think the T-Bird might have sold better and been kept if they had brought in out more in line with the '58 - '60 ones (first 4 seaters).  While some people really like two seaters, there is that need for two more seats.  Taking the parents, another couple or kids somewhere.  Sort of the same reason there are so many four seat personal trucks now.

 

I remember taking a marketing class back in late '70's and the instructor told us that Chevrolet made Corvettes to sell Camaros. People came in to drool over the 'Vette, but they drove out in Camaros.  That was back when Camaro was a much less expensive car.

 

I have had several two seat sports cars and they are fun, but neither practical nor economical.  Biggest surprise I had was when I went from a ten year old Mazda Rx-7 convetible to a new Ford Taurus and my insurance dropped signinificantly.

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