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That's a nice car!


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20 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

@slaytonf:  Well, shucks, if you don't wanna go down the road of HOT SUMMER IN BAREFOOT COUNTY may I recommend this ♦nugget♦ of sheer amateurish muck:  THE NIGHT THEY ROBBED BIG BERTHA's (1975).  It's even worse.  You could call it "hicksploitation" . . . but it's not an 'exploitation movie'.  It's just an awful, amateurish mess of various country bumpkins endeavoring to rob Big Bertha's house of ill-repute with very mild results.  HOT SUMMER IN BAREFOOT COUNTY looks decent in comparison.

Now you might logically ask yourself:  "Why would I want to watch this mess if it's even worse than "Hot Summer in Barefoot County"?" 

ANSWER:  Because watching BIG BERTHA is better than watching NOVEMBER CHILDREN (1972) (aka:  "Nightmare County") which is even *more* terrible.  😛  "November Children" is about oppressed fruit-pickers that was written and directed and starred in by one 'Sean McGregor'.  This is so amateurish it's unwatchable.  But I watched it once!  Forced myself to get through it.  It's not an exploitation movie, however, it's just completely uninvolving.   "November Children" is a movie geared for folks who are 'Anti-Entertainment'.  The plot line was ripe for the picking (pun intended) . . . but in Sean McGregor's hands this film views like a basket of the rotten-est fruit imaginable. 

But, hey, there's some old pick-up trucks in NIGHTMARE COUNTY, which is the title "November Children" was released on video under. 

Happy Viewing!  🤪

Uf.  I satisfy my masochistic tendencies in other ways.

Those pick-ups, are they nice?

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You wish to talk of 1950s styling?

This is a 1958 Moskvitch 407. These cars were in many movies such as: One, Two Three (1961):

3UAlamg.jpg

This still is from the television series: Man in a Suitcase (1967-1968).

Mine was blue. I am sorry to say that I do not have a picture of it.

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41 minutes ago, SansFin said:

You wish to talk of 1950s styling?

This is a 1958 Moskvitch 407. These cars were in many movies such as: One, Two Three (1961):

3UAlamg.jpg

This still is from the television series: Man in a Suitcase (1967-1968).

Mine was blue. I am sorry to say that I do not have a picture of it.

I’m familiar with the Volga but this one is new to me. It’s not a bad looking little car, better than the Volga. 45 HP!!

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8 hours ago, slaytonf said:

The name [Thunderbird] stayed around, not the car.  The evolution of car design is not a phenomenon of the public consciousness, which has not a clue about design.  It is a marketing strategy developed by car manufacturers to promote sales by making it possible for new-car buyers to prove they had a new car and not an old model that was well-kept.

Not educated about the car industry in general, and the marketing history of the T-Bird in particular, I can't comment about its sales.  But before I accepted that the success of the new design is evidence of the failure of the old, I would need to know how the two models were marketed.  I'll start researching that tomorrow.

Car companies that respond to the market go out of business.  Car companies that lead the market prevail.

The 240Z was very successful because it was the first mass market of its type.  Not to mention Datsun (Nissan) made a very reliable car.  Sales of the 260Z and 280Z were declining, so Datsun created the 300Zx - logical evolution of the car.  This was successful.

 

1.  The car stayed around, but as a four passenger personal car.  The T-Bird was NEVER marketed as a sports car like the Corvette.   From day one, it was advertised/marketed as a personal car.   The 58 was just a larger personal car.

2.  EDIT:  converting it to four passenger saved the car.  Incidentally, it was considered to make the Mustang a two passenger car, but brighter minds decided four passenger would actually be a success - and it was.

EDIT:  T-Bird production:  57-21,380 (highest for 2 seater); 58 (1st four seater)-37,892; 59-67,456; 60-90,845.

3.  Car companies that respond to the market stay in business.  That is why there are so many pick-ups, SUV's, CUV's, etc. sold today.  The history of the automobile industry is littered with makes and models that failed because the market did not want them.  The auto industry is primarily based on selling hundreds of thousands of each model, not a few hundred.  There are smaller, more specialized companies that have found a nich and been successful.  But we're talking about the Thunderbird and Ford Motor Company.  

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20 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

Oh I believe it. Lot's of garbage sold that has no value today. Look at the K car platform.

Ironically, there are K Car collector organizations.  Some people do collect them.  The value of the K Car platform was that it saved the Chrysler Corp and was used for many years.  The public liked them and bought them.

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

The T-Bird was NEVER marketed as a sports car like the Corvette.   From day one, it was advertised/marketed as a personal car.

It was marketed as a "high performance" car so easy to drive even a woman can do it! The marketing literature reads pretty much the same a the Corvette, they just avoid verbiage that would make it sound like it was mechanically uncooperative like sports cars of the day -Jags, etc- tended to be. 

Thunderbird-1955-Ad-04.jpg

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9 hours ago, SansFin said:

You wish to talk of 1950s styling?

This is a 1958 Moskvitch 407. These cars were in many movies such as: One, Two Three (1961):

3UAlamg.jpg

This still is from the television series: Man in a Suitcase (1967-1968).

Mine was blue. I am sorry to say that I do not have a picture of it.

Nice-ky!

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2 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

It was marketed as a "high performance" car so easy to drive even a woman can do it! The marketing literature reads pretty much the same a the Corvette, they just avoid verbiage that would make it sound like it was mechanically uncooperative like sports cars of the day -Jags, etc- tended to be. 

Thunderbird-1955-Ad-04.jpg

They also equipped it with accessories that were common on high end and regular cars.  

As I said though, it was marketed as a personal car even if they did not state that.  Was not marketed as a sports car or as an alternative to Corvette, Jaguar, etc.  

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13 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

It's understandable if you consider the competition.

 

Yep.  Like----

By the way, chances are good my Dad painted those fenders and the hood.  ;)  And my Grandpa polished 'em.

Sepiatone

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49 minutes ago, ElCid said:

...it was marketed as a personal car even if they did not state that.

That's an interesting sales tactic.  I read an ad talking about "high performance car" that "lifts many a European eyebrow !" I'm not thinking grocery getter.

Then again, straight forward descriptions like "elegant on the boulevard" and "A luxurious year round car" would give the impression we are talking about a high end or regular car. Odd for a 1959 Corvette ad.

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3 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

That's an interesting sales tactic.  I read an ad talking about "high performance car" that "lifts many a European eyebrow !" I'm not thinking grocery getter.

Then again, straight forward descriptions like "elegant on the boulevard" and "A luxurious year round car" would give the impression we are talking about a high end or regular car. Odd for a 1959 Corvette ad.

Thought we were talking about T-Bird ads.  I have seen some where T-Bird is shown as a banker/lawyer/doctor's car, even the two seaters.

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13 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Thought we were talking about T-Bird ads.  I have seen some where T-Bird is shown as a banker/lawyer/doctor's car, even the two seaters.

I compared T-Bird "high performance car" that "lifts many a European eyebrow !" to Corvette  "elegant on the boulevard" and "A luxurious year round car".

The T-Bird ad I posted above is for the first year featuring a lady driving, other ads I'm seeing are about half and half, ladies driving to men, regardless of profession.  Here's a couple more targeting the fairer sex but there's others. Bottom line is they are selling easy driving performance comparable to less refined/reliable sports cars. If that's a "personal car" so be it.

fa37f2f347e846f70a87e58b9c04f00a.jpg

1959.jpg

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1 hour ago, Moe Howard said:

I compared T-Bird "high performance car" that "lifts many a European eyebrow !" to Corvette  "elegant on the boulevard" and "A luxurious year round car".

The T-Bird ad I posted above is for the first year featuring a lady driving, other ads I'm seeing are about half and half, ladies driving to men, regardless of profession.  Here's a couple more targeting the fairer sex but there's others. Bottom line is they are selling easy driving performance comparable to less refined/reliable sports cars. If that's a "personal car" so be it.

fa37f2f347e846f70a87e58b9c04f00a.jpg

1959.jpg

 

I'll quote from Encyclopedia of American Cars by the Auto Editors of Consumer Guide.  Publishers of many, many books on automobiles.  "The Thunderbird was a 'personal' car, not a pure sports car."    This was in reference to the first (1955) T-Bird

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6 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

Look, I don't put a lot of stock in overly broad classification schemes. But, I notice they omit the two seater T-Birds from that description, which they note as for "sporting".  

They go on to say; "In the early 1950s, both Ford and General Motors were developing competitors to address what they perceived as growing popularity of the European Sports car niche in the North American market.[20] The result was the Ford Thunderbird, Studebaker Speedster, and the Chevrolet Corvette.[20]"

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There is always the potential, when discussing cars, of doctrinal disputes.  Competing Texts are marshaled, with ultimate resorting to the Apocrypha.   To return to the matter at hand:

1955 T-B in It's a Bikini World (1967):

i589033.jpg

 

1955 T-B in À bout de souffle (1960):

i011713.jpg

1955 T-B in Zazie Dans le Métro (1960):

i020589.jpg

55 T-B in Purple People Eater (1988):

i490600.jpg

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6 minutes ago, slaytonf said:

There is always the potential, when discussing cars, of doctrinal disputes.  Competing Texts are marshaled, with ultimate resorting to the Apocrypha.   To return to the matter at hand:

1955 T-B in It's a Bikini World (1967):

i589033.jpg

 

1955 T-B in À bout de souffle (1960):

i011713.jpg

1955 T-B in Zazie Dans le Métro (1960):

i020589.jpg

55 T-B in Purple People Eater (1988):

i490600.jpg

Holy crap! Law Dogs! Free legal advice with your lunch! 

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12 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

Look, I don't put a lot of stock in overly broad classification schemes. But, I notice they omit the two seater T-Birds from that description, which they note as for "sporting".  

They go on to say; "In the early 1950s, both Ford and General Motors were developing competitors to address what they perceived as growing popularity of the European Sports car niche in the North American market.[20] The result was the Ford Thunderbird, Studebaker Speedster, and the Chevrolet Corvette.[20]"

While I use Wikipedia, I'll trust the automotive historical experts, such as I cited above.  The Studebaker Speedster was a four seater from day one.   The T-Bird began in 1955 with real windows, a quality convertible top and hard top accessory, automatic transmission, V-8, higher level interior as well as other accessories.

I went back to the cite [20] for the Wikipedia article.  The source actually stated the below: 

"The mass media often has mistakenly called any sporty looking car, such as the Ford Mustang, a "sports car." It's given the 1955-57 Thunderbird the same description, although Ford stressed from the get-go that its new baby was a "personal car."Dan Jedlicka

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Seems most "sports" cars were more or less "personal".  And it could be too, that since other European "sports" cars of the times, like the Jaguar XK-E,  The MG, Morgan ,  and other French and Italian two seater "high performance" cars could also be considered "personal" cars.  But them being two-seaters and called "sports" cars is probably why the media and people in general gave the Thunderbird and  Corvette  two seat high performance cars the "sports" car tag.   But anyway, it's about time for----

Sepiatone

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12 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Seems most "sports" cars were more or less "personal".  And it could be too, that since other European "sports" cars of the times, like the Jaguar XK-E,  The MG, Morgan ,  and other French and Italian two seater "high performance" cars could also be considered "personal" cars.  But them being two-seaters and called "sports" cars is probably why the media and people in general gave the Thunderbird and  Corvette  two seat high performance cars the "sports" car tag.   But anyway, it's about time for----

Sepiatone

Personal car or personal luxury car are classifications used by government bureaucrats and insurers. Not likely to find these terms in any  advertising or articles in car magazines. What you do find in them is verbiage talking about performance and handling, in other words, motor sports.

All my life I have heard  Mustang and Camaro owners -and mechanics- refer to these cars as "American Sports Cars". Now, I've been blessed when it comes to cars, I know a sports car when I'm driving it. I did not feel like I was driving a sports car in my 69 Camaro. The 2008 Shelby GT (Mustang) . . . maybe, it was pretty sporty. Other cars without question were sports cars, two seater Italian exotics, German coupes or British roadsters.

Question is, when does a four seater become NOT a sports car, is there a point where 'luxury' accessories and rear seats remove the sports car status. Is a 911 a sports car? Absolutely. Is a Panamera or a four seat Ferrari ? Maybe not, according to the logic behind the "personal luxury car" classification.

 

 

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4 hours ago, ElCid said:

While I use Wikipedia, I'll trust the automotive historical experts, such as I cited above.

I don't blame you. Wikipedia can be very flawed, but for inconsequential matters it'll do.

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On 7/6/2021 at 8:22 PM, Mr. Gorman said:

Re: " . . . but how many of you have seen the movie VAN NUYS BLVD. (1979)?"

 I wouldn't trade it for Rick McCloskey's shots of 1972 streetlife in the Valley:

                            25742618-8245715-Above_three_young_women_enjoy_the_Southern_California_weather_du-a-34_1587590380160.jpg 

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