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DownGoesFrazier

Females in Rock

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Who?

 

Sepiatone

 

Of course DGF can have his own musical taste but when he starts using terms like 'best';  well,,,,,   it is clear to me he has never played a note!

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Of course DGF can have his own musical taste but when he starts using terms like 'best';  well,,,,,   it is clear to me he has never played a note!

First of all, I'm only repeating what I read. Second of all, are you saying that only musicians can have opinions about the proficiency of other musicians? Since most of us on these boards are not filmmakers, I guess we shouldn't be entitled to list our favorite films.

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First of all, I'm only repeating what I read. Second of all, are you saying that only musicians can have opinions about the proficiency of other musicians? Since most of us on these boards are not filmmakers, I guess we shouldn't be entitled to list our favorite films.

 

You used the term 'best' and  to me that term is related to proficiency.   I admit I value the opinion of someone who practices the 'art' being discussed as it relates to proficiency in said art.

 

But you go on with a strawman example using 'favorite films'.    One doesn't need to be proficient in an 'art' to have favorites and ALL opinions are equally 'valid' as it relates to favorites.

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Point taken DGF.   It would, in this case, do well to consider the source. 

 

Like, I knew those who were ardent Zeppelin fans who thought JOHN BONHAM was the "greatest" drummer in rock'n'roll.  Some others, and big fans of The Who, felt it was MOON.

 

Now, I liked both groups, and felt both drummers were very good, but judging from a point of listening objectively to MANY rock drummers of the era, I felt MITCH MITCHELL was superior to either one. 

 

Now, whomever wrote what you read could have been a "fan" of sorts and wrote from that perspective, or at worst, had a limited exposure to the wide variety of available music.  It all depends on WHEN he wrote it, and WHOM his comparisons were.  Then again, Mr. Taylor might have also been in disagreement with it.   MITCHELL, when faced with a music critic bestowing him with a "best drummer" designation, expressed his opinion that he thought ELVIN JONES more deserved that designation.  Jazz drummer Jones WAS a huge influence on Mitchell, by the way.  Just as, since I'm not familiar with Mr. Taylor, but Chris Squire MAY have been a big influence on HIM.  So, let's all just settle down.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Point taken DGF.   It would, in this case, do well to consider the source. 

 

Like, I knew those who were ardent Zeppelin fans who thought JOHN BONHAM was the "greatest" drummer in rock'n'roll.  Some others, and big fans of The Who, felt it was MOON.

 

Now, I liked both groups, and felt both drummers were very good, but judging from a point of listening objectively to MANY rock drummers of the era, I felt MITCH MITCHELL was superior to either one. 

 

Now, whomever wrote what you read could have been a "fan" of sorts and wrote from that perspective, or at worst, had a limited exposure to the wide variety of available music.  It all depends on WHEN he wrote it, and WHOM his comparisons were.  Then again, Mr. Taylor might have also been in disagreement with it.   MITCHELL, when faced with a music critic bestowing him with a "best drummer" designation, expressed his opinion that he thought ELVIN JONES more deserved that designation.  Jazz drummer Jones WAS a huge influence on Mitchell, by the way.  Just as, since I'm not familiar with Mr. Taylor, but Chris Squire MAY have been a big influence on HIM.  So, let's all just settle down.

 

 

Sepiatone

To me, drumming was never a crucial part of rock, as it was in Jazz.

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Point taken DGF.   It would, in this case, do well to consider the source. 

 

Like, I knew those who were ardent Zeppelin fans who thought JOHN BONHAM was the "greatest" drummer in rock'n'roll.  Some others, and big fans of The Who, felt it was MOON.

 

Now, I liked both groups, and felt both drummers were very good, but judging from a point of listening objectively to MANY rock drummers of the era, I felt MITCH MITCHELL was superior to either one. 

 

Now, whomever wrote what you read could have been a "fan" of sorts and wrote from that perspective, or at worst, had a limited exposure to the wide variety of available music.  It all depends on WHEN he wrote it, and WHOM his comparisons were.  Then again, Mr. Taylor might have also been in disagreement with it.   MITCHELL, when faced with a music critic bestowing him with a "best drummer" designation, expressed his opinion that he thought ELVIN JONES more deserved that designation.  Jazz drummer Jones WAS a huge influence on Mitchell, by the way.  Just as, since I'm not familiar with Mr. Taylor, but Chris Squire MAY have been a big influence on HIM.  So, let's all just settle down.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Well said Sepiatone.   I often have to remind people that what they are saying is "this is the best drummer (bassist, guitar player, actor etc..),  I have ever experienced" (heard \ seen).    (Are You Experienced,  ha ha).    Of course no one has heard everyone that ever played.  So what I find interesting about this type of 'I think XYZ is best'  is that I often learn about someone I hadn't heard of before or only had limited exposure to.    This is true for people's 'favorites' as well.  

 

e.g.   I have turned a lot of 'rockers' on to Dennis Chambers.     As I'm sure you know (since your music knowledge has impressed me) he plays in many music genres and a player like him is a way to expose people to that 'strange jazz music' that many people just reject out of hand.    Of course I like his funk also! 

 

These same rockers have turned me on to guitar players that I wouldn't have been exposed to because of my genre bias towards jazz.

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Well said Sepiatone.   I often have to remind people that what they are saying is "this is the best drummer (bassist, guitar player, actor etc..),  I have ever experienced" (heard \ seen).    (Are You Experienced,  ha ha).    Of course no one has heard everyone that ever played.  So what I find interesting about this type of 'I think XYZ is best'  is that I often learn about someone I hadn't heard of before or only had limited exposure to.    This is true for people's 'favorites' as well.  

 

e.g.   I have turned a lot of 'rockers' on to Dennis Chambers.     As I'm sure you know (since your music knowledge has impressed me) he plays in many music genres and a player like him is a way to expose people to that 'strange jazz music' that many people just reject out of hand.    Of course I like his funk also! 

 

These same rockers have turned me on to guitar players that I wouldn't have been exposed to because of my genre bias towards jazz.

Incidentally Hendrix' guitar work on the title track of "Are You Experienced" is other-wordly. Is Chambers one of the Chambers Brothers?

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No DGF, Chambers is a jazz-Latin-Funk drummer who I first became familiar with when he worked with guitarist John McLaughlin.

 

It's hard to single out just one song in which Jimi Hendrix's playing was "other worldly".  It was pretty much his stock in trade!

 

 

Sepiatone

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If I may just correct a glaring omission of a great rock song with a female lead, 10,000 Maniacs (Natalie Merchant)-"Like the Weather". Terrific.

It's heartbreaking.  Has depression ever been captured as beautifully in a song?  These lyrics especially get me:

 

Do I need someone here to scold me?

Or do I need someone who'll grab and pull me out of

Four poster, dull torpor pulling downward

 

 

 

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Some of my favorites:

 

White Rabbit/Jefferson Airplane

White Sweater/Romeo Void

Hangin' on the Telephone/Blondie

Crazy on You/Heart

Up the Neck/The Pretenders

Hong Kong Garden/Siouxie and the Banshees

Anticipating/The Motels

Total Eclipse of the Heart/Bonnie Tyler (maybe the equivalent of a Douglas Sirk movie)

I'm the Only One/Melissa Etheridge 

Johnny Hit and Run Paulene/X

We Live for Love/Pat Benetar

It's You, Only You (Mein Schmerz)/Lene Lovich (always thought she was underrated)

 

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Some of my favorites:

 

White Rabbit/Jefferson Airplane

White Sweater/Romeo Void

Hangin' on the Telephone/Blondie

Crazy on You/Heart

Up the Neck/The Pretenders

Hong Kong Garden/Siouxie and the Banshees

Anticipating/The Motels

Total Eclipse of the Heart/Bonnie Tyler (maybe the equivalent of a Douglas Sirk movie)

I'm the Only One/Melissa Etheridge 

Johnny Hit and Run Paulene/X

We Live for Love/Pat Benetar

It's You, Only You (Mein Schmerz)/Lene Lovich (always thought she was underrated)

 

 

I thought I knew the Pretenders, but I don't know this song. I'll check it out.

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I thought I knew the Pretenders, but I don't know this song. I'll check it out.

I love this band.  And Chrissie is still going strong, as you probably know.  In 1979 I saw them in concert, and again 30 years later.  Both times she bawdily traded comments with people in the crowd.

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So, what HAS become of JOAN ARMITRADING?

 

I'll have to look it up, but THAT won't give me any info as to if any of her newer stuff is actually worth the time....

 

Since our local public radio station switched to all news, I don't hear much of her stuff anymore....

 

 

Sepiatone

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So, what HAS become of JOAN ARMITRADING?

 

I'll have to look it up, but THAT won't give me any info as to if any of her newer stuff is actually worth the time....

 

Since our local public radio station switched to all news, I don't hear much of her stuff anymore....

 

 

Sepiatone

Good question, Sepiatone.  According to Wiki she seems to still be recording and performing, but I haven't heard anything from her in ages.  I think I wore out the Joan Armatrading album of 1976, every song was just so good.  This was one of my favorites:

 

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Your "bawdily" comment immediately brought to mind the outspoken Liz Phair.

 

Somehow I never really heard her music, despite the acclaim for Exile in Guyville.  I will investigate!

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