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Doesn't Cary Grant rate a thread?


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Certainly one of the most important presences in movies.  Maybe people are just tired of working through the assembly-line of STOMs.  Maybe there isn't much enthusiasm for the face.  Is there a question whether he was a good actor?  I'll provide a topic for debate:

 

Resolved:  Cary Grant's performance varied with the quality of the director he worked with.

 

 

 

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in answer to your thread title-

 

I mean, yeah...I guess....sorta....

 

it's just kinda hard to get too enthused about it when he has been a SOTM a few times before (and I want to say he's been one in the past five or so years); he was featured on this year's SUTS fest (and has been a  regular presence since its inception); and not a month- actually, make that a week- goes by that he doesn't show up in something airing on TCM.

 

Look, as far as I'm concerned, Grant was the best actor there ever was. I know we sometimes go down a sidestreet when his name comes up that begins "he was a great movie star, not an actor"- to wit, I always reply " Penny Serenade, Gunga Din, Sylvia Scarlet, The Philadelphia Story, Arsenic and Old Lace" and am immediately informed by whoever pooh-poohed Grant in the first place that he or she has seen them all and thinks they're all crap.

 

In other words, I don't think you're going to convert the haters, and as a big Grant fan, I can say I'd rather see at least a hundred other names get the SOTM treatment BEFORE Grant.

 

This is one of the biggest issues I have with TCM "going back to the well" for the same titles and personalities, there are some genuinely good actors and films that either I or everyone else are just sick to death of from having them trotted out willy-nilly while some other stuff sits and the shelf and some other names stay in the shadows.

 

ps- also a HUGE CRAWFORD fan (duh) and don't see the need for another all-daytime tribute to her when she was a SOTM 11 months ago.

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One of the problems with Cary Grant, and I'm going to come right out and say it, is that while he was very entertaining in a lot of his movies (notice the compliment I am giving), as a human being I think he was and still is inaccessible to most. There is very little the common movie watcher can relate to about his life.

 

None of us escaped from poverty in England, none of us ran away from home and joined a circus or whatever it was he joined, none of us cut our mother out of our lives when we became famous, none of us lived and slept with Randolph Scott, none of us married Barbara Hutton, none of us tried to turn Betsy Drake into a star, none of us lived and slept with Randolph Scott again in between our divorces, none of us said Judy-Judy-Judy, none of us married a young woman and had a child in our sixties, none of us sued Chevy Chase for saying we had lived and slept with Randolph Scott on Saturday Night Live, and none of us died in Iowa despite the fact we lived in Malibu and acted like a jet-setter while trying to forget we were actually lower class Archie Leach from England.

 

So yeah, with a life like that, who can relate? We can be entertained and charmed by him, but we cannot even begin to understand or empathize with a man who lived that kind of life.

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in answer to your thread title-

 

I mean, yeah...I guess....sorta....it's just kinda hard to get too enthused about it when he has been a SOTM a few times before (and I want to say he's been one in the past five or so years), he was featured on this year's SUTS fest (and has been a  regular presence) and not a month- actually, make that a week- goes by that he doesn't show up in something.

 

Look, as far as I'm concerned, Grant was the best actor there ever was. I know we sometimes go down a sidestreet when his name comes up that begins "he was a great movie star, not an actor"- to wit, I always reply " Penny Serenade, Gunga Din, Sylvia Scarlet, The Philadelphia Story, Arsenic and Old Lace" and am immediately informed by whoever poohed Grant in the first place has seen them all and thinks they're crap.

 

In other words, I don't think you're going to convert the haters, and as a Grant fan, I can say I'd rather see at least a hundred other namesget the SOTM treatment than Grant.

 

This is one of the biggest issues I have with TCM "going back to the well" for the same titles and personalities, there are some genuionely good actors and films that either I or everyone else are just sick to death of.

Grant was the best actor there ever was.

 

Yes, he was. I wouldn't mind seeing at least two Grant movies a week, every week. Including North by Northwest. Simply love when he goes up on his toes after he's been fake shot.

 

Isn't much enthusiasm for the face? HIS face? One of the most beautiful in the biz. Imagine he was not lucky in love, with that face? Seems his childhood, no surprise, screwed him up.

 

There was an interesting biopic on Cinemoi the other evening. Grant fought against method acting, good for him, and fought against type all his life. He angered the studios, it seems, when he went independent. Three very good speakers lauded his films, but they left out Mr. Lucky and None But The Lonely Heart. 

 

Seems he was most liked by the critics when with Kate Hepburn (blech), and most liked by the audiences when in a light breezy romcom, as they call them today. Seems the audiences, no surprise, didn't like his more serious turns. 

 

Catch this bio on Cinemoi if you have the channel, they're sure to rerun it.

 

Then tell me this best actor of all time doesn't deserve all the time given to so many of the other hacks on TCM. I'll take Grant any day, along with Powell and William and Cagney and Bogey, of course.

 

Oh, and the idiots in the Academy, apparently in retaliation to Grant going independent, didn't award him an Oscar until near the end.

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One of the problems with Cary Grant, and I'm going to come right out and say it, is that while he was very entertaining in a lot of his movies (notice the compliment I am giving), as a human being I think he was and still is inaccessible to most. There is very little the common movie watcher can relate to about his life.

 

None of us escaped from poverty in England, none of us ran away from home and joined a circus or whatever it was he joined, none of us cut our mother out of our lives when we became famous, none of us lived and slept with Randolph Scott, none of us married Barbara Hutton, none of us tried to turn Betsy Drake into a star, none of us lived and slept with Randolph Scott again in between our divorces, none of us said Judy-Judy-Judy, none of us married a young woman and had a child in our sixties, none of us sued Chevy Chase for saying we had lived and slept with Randolph Scott on Saturday Night Live, and none of us died in Iowa despite the fact we lived in Malibu and lived like a jet-setter while trying to forget we were actually lower class Archie Leach from England.

 

So yeah, with a life like that, who can relate? We can be entertained and charmed by him, but we cannot even begin to understand or empathize with a man who lived that kind of life.

Sorry, TB, but some of us can relate to some of the above...........with the pointed exception of Randolph Scott, blech. I'd sooner pick Oscar Levant. :blink:

 

Did Grant really say Judy, Judy, Judy, or was that Bugs Bunny doing his imitation of Cary?

 

Oh, and finally, can you relate to all the other actors whom you admire? No, didn't think so.

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...can you relate to all the other actors whom you admire? 

Actually, I can. There's a reason I choose to admire the stars I admire-- because there is a truth in their off-screen life and performances that resonate with me. Nothing in the manufactured persona of one Cary Grant resonates with me. 

 

Let me give examples of how I do this-- starting with Joan Crawford. Whenever I have a problem with people who get under my skin, I always think about what I read that Bette Davis' daughter said about Crawford-- she said Joan was too smart for her mother. Then, I think what would Joan do in situation x, how would she be smarter than the Bette Davis-type person trying to bring me down. It never fails, but I always get a fool-proof plan to leap over, navigate around or steer clear of the opposition. So I am relating to Joan's cleverness-- I am using my knowledge of a film star to extract a truth about the human condition and how to win over adversity. I know that sounds strange but that is exactly what I do. I use the life lessons that these people bring to their films to help me with the choices I make in life.

 

Another one is Kay Francis. There is a reason I made a Kay Francis appreciation thread in the summer. I was battling a former employer who was trying to get out of paying me what was owed on a contract. I thought about how Kay persevered when Jack Warner was trying to screw her over. And I asked myself, how can i use that lesson and make sure my contract gets paid out. As of today, my former employer is still paying off the rest of that contract. By late December, I will have gotten all the money back that was owed me. If I didn't have knowledge of Kay Francis' example, I wouldn't have felt confident that I could win either.

 

Nothing in Cary Grant's work helps me be a winner. But I am still entertained and charmed by him, phony as I feel he was. Does that make sense?

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Sorry, TB, but some of us can relate to some of the above...........with the pointed exception of Randolph Scott, blech. I'd sooner pick Oscar Levant. :blink:

 

Did Grant really say Judy, Judy, Judy, or was that Bugs Bunny doing his imitation of Cary?

 

Oh, and finally, can you relate to all the other actors whom you admire? No, didn't think so.

I have read a Grant bio and other stuff about him. He did NOT cut his mother out of his life.

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I have read a Grant bio and other stuff about him. He did NOT cut his mother out of his life.

Yes, he did when he first found fame in Hollywood in the 30s. But in the 1940s, when she became ill, he had a change of heart and brought her to California to take care of her. That might be because of Betsy Drake's influence who is more a gentle soul. But for at least ten years, he acted like his mother didn't exist, that she was already dead to him. So severely was he trying to distance himself from his impoverished past. He was also ashamed that having his lower class mother around would betray the refined, cultured image he had created for himself. He had some major issues about this.

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Yes, he did when he first found fame in Hollywood in the 30s. But in the 1940s, when she became ill, he had a change of heart and brought her to California to take care of her. That might be because of Betsy Drake's influence who is more a gentle soul. But for at least ten years, he acted like his mother didn't exist, that she was already dead to him. So severely was he trying to distance himself from his impoverished past. He was also ashamed that having his lower class mother around would betray the refined, cultured image he had created for himself. He had some major issues about this.

I don't remember the details, but I believe he lost track of her for a while.

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Actually, I can. There's a reason I choose to admire the stars I admire-- because there is a truth in their off-screen life and performances that resonate with me. Nothing in the manufactured persona of one Cary Grant resonates with me. 

 

Let me give examples of how I do this-- starting with Joan Crawford. Whenever I have a problem with people who get under my skin, I always think about what I read that Bette Davis' daughter said about Crawford-- she said Joan was too smart for her mother. Then, I think what would Joan do in situation x, how would she be smarter than the Bette Davis-type person trying to bring me down. It never fails, but I always get a fool-proof plan to leap over, navigate around or steer clear of the opposition. So I am relating to Joan's cleverness-- I am using my knowledge of a film star to extract a truth about the human condition and how to win over adversity. I know that sounds strange but that is exactly what I do. I use the life lessons that these people bring to their films to help me with the choices I make in life.

 

Another one is Kay Francis. There is a reason I made a Kay Francis appreciation thread in the summer. I was battling a former employer who was trying to get out of paying me what was owed on a contract. I thought about how Kay persevered when Jack Warner was trying to screw her over. And I asked myself, how can i use that lesson and make sure my contract gets paid out. As of today, my former employer is still paying off the rest of that contract. By late December, I will have gotten all the money back that was owed me. If I didn't have knowledge of Kay Francis' example, I wouldn't have felt confident that I could win either.

 

Nothing in Cary Grant's work helps me be a winner. But I am still entertained and charmed by him, phony as I feel he was. Does that make sense?

There is very little the common movie watcher can relate to about his life.

 

Then I guess this makes me an uncommon movie watcher. :)

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, it does. A very interesting, very fascinating approach, and a very unique one. You should start a thread on this!

 

As I'm sure you've figured out by now, we all watch certain actors in certain movies, and either linger with them or discard them. I imagine my discard list is longer than yours, but I watch based on the emotional appeal of an actor.

 

Ninety percent of my persona is made up of appreciation of the underdog, and I am in awe of those who decide on a profession where they face getting kicked in the teeth, figuratively, every-time they go for a job. And until they're successful, they have to apply for a job all the time. Therefore, I appreciate real talent in the arts, and loathe those who phone in their performances. Incomprehensibly perhaps, I base my admiration on emotional appeal.

 

Interesting topic, why we watch the actors and movies we watch.

 

Thanks for sharing.

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Yes, he did when he first found fame in Hollywood in the 30s. But in the 1940s, when she became ill, he had a change of heart and brought her to California to take care of her. That might be because of Betsy Drake's influence who is more a gentle soul. But for at least ten years, he acted like his mother didn't exist, that she was already dead to him. So severely was he trying to distance himself from his impoverished past. He was also ashamed that having his lower class mother around would betray the refined, cultured image he had created for himself. He had some major issues about this.

Not according to the biopic on Cinemoi last evening. They stated that Grant thought his mother was dead, and it was only when his father died that he found out she was in an asylum. And yes, he brought her to the U.S. and cared for her until her death.

 

Even with that, he never was able to shake his fractured psyche.

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There is very little the common movie watcher can relate to about his life.

 

Then I guess this makes me an uncommon movie watcher. :)

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, it does. A very interesting, very fascinating approach, and a very unique one. You should start a thread on this!

 

As I'm sure you've figured out by now, we all watch certain actors in certain movies, and either linger with them or discard them. I imagine my discard list is longer than yours, but I watch based on the emotional appeal of an actor.

 

Ninety percent of my persona is made up of appreciation of the underdog, and I am in awe of those who decide on a profession where they face getting kicked in the teeth, figuratively, every-time they go for a job. And until they're successful, they have to apply for a job all the time. Therefore, I appreciate real talent in the arts, and loathe those who phone in their performances. Incomprehensibly perhaps, I base my admiration on emotional appeal.

 

Interesting topic, why we watch the actors and movies we watch.

 

Thanks for sharing.

Yes, I think this could be a separate thread topic.  In fact, I will start a new thread and give another example that just popped into my head!

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Not according to the biopic on Cinemoi last evening. They stated that Grant thought his mother was dead, and it was only when his father died that he found out she was in an asylum. And yes, he brought her to the U.S. and cared for her until her death.

 

.

That is a true statement, from what I've read and heard in bios of Grant. The other info that was supplied in another post is not true.He did NOT abandon his mother.

 

To get back to the title question in this thread, sure YES Cary Grant rates a thread. He was a wonderful actor. I think his comic style (as an actor who was not a comedian) was superb. He may have thought his performance in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE a little overdone, but I love him in that film, and as many times as I've seen the film, Cary Grant's facial expressions and delivery make that film a favorite. I can say the same for BRINGING UP BABY and HIS GIRL FRIDAY I think he was believable in his roles and a true pleasure to watch.

 

this post was edited by me :)

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Look, as far as I'm concerned, Grant was the best actor there ever was. I know we sometimes go down a sidestreet when his name comes up that begins "he was a great movie star, not an actor"- to wit, I always reply " Penny Serenade, Gunga Din, Sylvia Scarlet, The Philadelphia Story, Arsenic and Old Lace" and am immediately informed by whoever pooh-poohed Grant in the first place that he or she has seen them all and thinks they're all crap.

 

In other words, I don't think you're going to convert the haters, and as a big Grant fan, I can say I'd rather see at least a hundred other names get the SOTM treatment BEFORE Grant.

 

I can't believe that there are Grant haters! I think he's an excellent actor and particularly like him in Bringing Up Baby and His Girl Friday (maybe Howard Hawks brought out the best in him).   And much as I love old Hollywood sentiment and schmaltz, I just don't like Penny Serenade. It's way OTT, although it does feature one of my film goddesses -- Beulah Bondi. 

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I can't believe that there are Grant haters! I think he's an excellent actor and particularly like him in Bringing Up Baby and His Girl Friday (maybe Howard Hawks brought out the best in him).   And much as I love old Hollywood sentiment and schmaltz, I just don't like Penny Serenade. It's way OTT, although it does feature one of my film goddesses -- Beulah Bondi. 

 

Note that dividing people into groups of lovers and haters is just a strawman approach for those unable to have an open discussion about a topic.

 

Grant is one of my favorite actors.   He was the star in many, many films I love.   But one of the greatest actors?    I'm not sold on that if by 'great actor' one means that an actor can convey a screen persona that is a lot different than their own.    Leach was great at playing Grant but he mostly played Grant.      Of course all major stars do that.    I feel the difference is that with Grant his attempts to break out of the mode (e.g. Penny Serenade,   and None but the Lonely Heart),  fall flat while the attempts of some of his peers lead to gold.

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Yes, he did when he first found fame in Hollywood in the 30s. But in the 1940s, when she became ill, he had a change of heart and brought her to California to take care of her. That might be because of Betsy Drake's influence who is more a gentle soul. 

 

...BUT a REALLY lousy actress!

 

(...and speakin' of "voices"...what was it with HERS???)

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Did Grant really say Judy, Judy, Judy, or was that Bugs Bunny doing his imitation of Cary?

 

 

While of course Bugs often did a Groucho impression(or stole lines from him), I don't recall Bugs ever doing a Cary Grant impression in any cartoon.

 

However, to answer your question here primos, the closest Cary ever got to actually saying that was in 1939's ONLY ANGELS HAVE WINGS, and when he calls out to a character Rita Hayworth plays in the film, "Judy, Judy!". 

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Not according to the biopic on Cinemoi last evening. They stated that Grant thought his mother was dead, and it was only when his father died that he found out she was in an asylum. And yes, he brought her to the U.S. and cared for her until her death.

 

Even with that, he never was able to shake his fractured psyche.

Speaking of the spoken of Mr. Grant, up tonight at 8:00pm, intro'ed by Ben I hope, is This Is The Night.

 

New to me.

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That is a true statement, from what I've read and heard in bios of Grant. The other info that was supplied in another post is not true.He did NOT abandon his mother.

 

To get back to the title question in this thread, sure YES Cary Grant rates a thread. He was a wonderful actor. I think his comic style (as an actor who was not a comedian) was superb. He may have thought his performance in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE a little overdone, but I love him in that film, and as many times as I've seen the film, Cary Grant's facial expressions and delivery make that film a favorite. I can say the same for BRINGING UP BABY and HIS GIRL FRIDAY I think he was believable in his roles and a true pleasure to watch.

 

this post was edited by me :)

He is widely considered the best actor ever in romantic (and maybe even screwball) comedies. Who else is there?

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He is widely considered the best actor ever in romantic (and maybe even screwball) comedies. Who else is there?

 

While Grant is my favorite actor in a romantic \ screwball comedy other actors would be Melvyn Douglas, Fred MacMurray, Robert Montgomery, and William Powell. 

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While Grant is my favorite actor in a romantic \ screwball comedy other actors would be Melvyn Douglas, Fred MacMurray, Robert Montgomery, and William Powell. 

They're all good, but as Sparky Anderson might have said, don't embarrass those middle three by comparing them to Cary Grant or William Powell.*  Those two stand alone at the top of the screwball comedy genre, each in his inimitable way.

 

*I realize you aren't necessarily doing this in your comment.    :) 

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He did NOT abandon his mother.

 

 

How could he lose track of his mother? That sounds fishy to me. Who loses track of their mother? Only people who don't care about their mother and want to lose track of dear old mum. There would be other relatives, not to mention the father, who would have known where the mother had gone. I think we can read between the lines that when he got to America, he really did not stay in touch with his family. Years later, probably when his father died, he realized the error of that.

 

And what about Dyan Cannon-- I don't think I have ever read one nice thing about Cary from her. By most accounts, he was very oppressive to her during their short-lived marriage. He was a narcissistic control freak. Probably for her daughter's sake, she remains civil and doesn't say anything too negative about him these days, but there's a reason she got out of that marriage as quickly as she could.

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