Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Scrooge question


Sepiatone
 Share

Recommended Posts

Thought of this while struggling to NOT throw something at my TV while TCM played that tedious and not so good "Scrooge" movie from 1935 with Seymore Hicks.  ( My wife, when I told her WHO was playing Scrooge, replied, "It'd be better to see LESS of him!")

 

Anyway, It made me think of something from the 1951 version, the Alistair Sim version WE may know as "A Christmas Carol", but WAS released in the UK as "Scrooge".

 

The character known as Mr. Jorkin, when talking to young Ebenezer, replies to a remark young Scrooge made with the comment,"Sage and Onions.  CABINET Spinach"

 

At least, I THINK that's what he says.  But, IS it?  Just what DOES he say there?

 

And if I'm right, well, I know WHAT sage and onions are, but WHAT is CABINET SPINACH( or whatever he says)?

 

AND I know what he MEANS by it all( that Scrooge's comment was nonsense), but I'm just not clear as to what he actually says, and what it might be as to WHY these things can be associated with his actual meaning?

 

 

Sepiatone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought of this while struggling to NOT throw something at my TV while TCM played that tedious and not so good "Scrooge" movie from 1935 with Seymore Hicks.  ( My wife, when I told her WHO was playing Scrooge, replied, "It'd be better to see LESS of him!")

 

Anyway, It made me think of something from the 1951 version, the Alistair Sim version WE may know as "A Christmas Carol", but WAS released in the UK as "Scrooge".

 

The character known as Mr. Jorkin, when talking to young Ebenezer, replies to a remark young Scrooge made with the comment,"Sage and Onions.  CABINET Spinach"

 

At least, I THINK that's what he says.  But, IS it?  Just what DOES he say there?

 

And if I'm right, well, I know WHAT sage and onions are, but WHAT is CABINET SPINACH( or whatever he says)?

 

AND I know what he MEANS by it all( that Scrooge's comment was nonsense), but I'm just not clear as to what he actually says, and what it might be as to WHY these things can be associated with his actual meaning?

 

 

Sepiatone

"Sage and onions, my dear fellow! Ha! Gammon and spinach! Why, suppose I told you, you could get twice the salary Old Fezziwig can afford to pay you? And advancement he can not afford to offer you as a clerk in a new company? What would you say to that, eh?"

 

Read more: http://thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/thread/8957#ixzz3MNJlT0xb

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had never seen the '35 edition, so made an effort to view. When the "Blackhawk" logo started the film ,I thought Oh My!. Was this a 16mm print? WoW & HD did it no good. I did sit through the whole thing. From a historical view, it was interesting but the dark, soupy veil over the print made it almost unwatachable, splices and all. TCM rarely reveiles where the prints originate, but wish thay had given a caviet on this one. Is Blackhawk still a going concern?     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought of this while struggling to NOT throw something at my TV while TCM played that tedious and not so good "Scrooge" movie from 1935 with Seymore Hicks.  ( My wife, when I told her WHO was playing Scrooge, replied, "It'd be better to see LESS of him!")

 

Anyway, It made me think of something from the 1951 version, the Alistair Sim version WE may know as "A Christmas Carol", but WAS released in the UK as "Scrooge".

 

The character known as Mr. Jorkin, when talking to young Ebenezer, replies to a remark young Scrooge made with the comment,"Sage and Onions.  CABINET Spinach"

 

At least, I THINK that's what he says.  But, IS it?  Just what DOES he say there?

 

And if I'm right, well, I know WHAT sage and onions are, but WHAT is CABINET SPINACH( or whatever he says)?

 

AND I know what he MEANS by it all( that Scrooge's comment was nonsense), but I'm just not clear as to what he actually says, and what it might be as to WHY these things can be associated with his actual meaning?

 

 

Sepiatone

I watched the beginning up until marley shows up. whatta grouch! whatta tough old bird. he kicks lamp shades. :)

 

a missed opportunity I think...

 

Cratchit shoving that shovel full of coal up Hick's...

 

never mind. :)

141r5s0.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, GAMMON and spinach.....

 

Had to LOOK UP "GAMMON", and found out it's basically a word for HAMHOCK, or possibly, also PIG'S KNUCKLES( based on a French word).  So, seems to ME that "Gammon and spinach" would be akin to COLLARD GREENS, which as I've experienced in sampling THOSE prepared by black women at the plant I worked at who'd make them for holiday dinners eaten at the plant on the last day before Christmas time off period, were often prepared with either ham, hamhock or chunks of bacon for flavoring.

 

I can't see "gammon and spinach" being synonymous with meaning "nonsense" unless Mr. Jorkin finds the dish to be unpalatable. And "Sage and Onions" equally unpalatable  I found most COLLARD greens so because to me, they taste a LOT like spinach, which I never DID like.

 

So, THANK YOU, Primo----for clearing up a years long mystery for me!

 

 

Sepiatone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, GAMMON and spinach.....

 

Had to LOOK UP "GAMMON", and found out it's basically a word for HAMHOCK, or possibly, also PIG'S KNUCKLES( based on a French word).  So, seems to ME that "Gammon and spinach" would be akin to COLLARD GREENS, which as I've experienced in sampling THOSE prepared by black women at the plant I worked at who'd make them for holiday dinners eaten at the plant on the last day before Christmas time off period, were often prepared with either ham, hamhock or chunks of bacon for flavoring.

 

I can't see "gammon and spinach" being synonymous with meaning "nonsense" unless Mr. Jorkin finds the dish to be unpalatable. And "Sage and Onions" equally unpalatable  I found most COLLARD greens so because to me, they taste a LOT like spinach, which I never DID like.

 

So, THANK YOU, Primo----for clearing up a years long mystery for me!

 

 

Sepiatone

You're welcome, Sepiatone. You were lucky to have authentically prepared hocks and collard greens - I believe they're meant to impart good luck for the year if eaten on New Year's day. Southern food is wonderful. Wish I could find pickled pigs ears, they're now used in dog treats. The best dish, by far imo, is banana pudding. Yes, I went down a tangential road... 

 

Nothing to do with Scrooge, but I also like the phrase 'chalk and cheese'.

 

Here's more on g&s:

 

From: Lydia Rivlin (l.rivlin btinternet.com)

Subject: Re: A.Word.A.Day--gammon

"Gammon and spinach" is an expression meaning "nonsense". It is not much used nowadays but I think it must have been quite popular in the 18th and early 19th century. It survives today in a children's nursery rhyme "The Frog he would a-courting go" in which the expression features as part of the chorus. It must always be remembered that many songs we considered amusements for children nowadays started out as amusements for adults and used current adult expressions of their time.

It is possible that the word "gammon" as a verb meaning "to deceive" came from the concept of confusing someone with nonsense.

The frog he would a-courting go,

Hey-ho said Rolley.

The frog he would a-courting go,

Whether his mother would let him or no

With a roly poly, gammon and spinach

Hey-ho says Anthony Rolley.

[there are several more verses to this!]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well collard greens are a winter staple in my house, I make them with 8 cloves of garlic kind of like Italians do. (I don't eat ham) I also eat lots of steel cut oats over the winter, not unlike Scrooge's "gruel". (and I hate Christmas....uh oh)

 

I think these dishes are mentioned in Dickens' book because then- as now- they are foods for "poor people"....meaning inexpensive, large quantity & filling. Scrooge HAD money, but he was thrifty & cheap- even towards himself- an illustration of his charactor.

 

It makes you wonder in the updating of this tale how many of these intricate details will be just left out, homogenizing the story?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have much more patience than I, Tiki.  I used to get this hot OAT BRAN cereal distributed by HODSON'S MILLS for several years.  The Meijer's "shifty acres" where we do most of our grocery shopping used to carry it.  Then, for some reason, they quit selling it, replacing it with those STEEL-CUT oats you mentioned.  I bought them thinking it was probably the same sort of thing.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Instead of the 21/2 minute cooking time the OAT BRAN required, I was NOW faced with a 20 minute hand-tie-er!  AND something with the texture that led me to believe that much of the steel that CUT the oats wound up IN the cereal!

 

Luckly, the store in which I shop now carries the oat bran cereal I used to get in the Hodson's Mills BOX in a CELLOPHANE bag, like the stuff I found at a BIG LOTS store a few months ago.

 

I also have a hard time finding----

 

The CREAM OF WHEAT that cooks in ONE MINUTE at my store anymore, and have to search it out elsewhere.

 

APPLE BUTTER is absent from my stores shelves anymore, and nobody who works there can tell me WHY!  :angry:

 

Anyway, I'm now toying with the conundrum of deciding wether or not to start using "Gammon and Spinach" in everyday speech use. B)

 

 

Sepiatone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your oats were hard Sepia, you just didn't cook them long enough. Steel cut oats with a plop cold plain yogurt & maple syrup is a delicious winter warmer....tastes like maple nut ice cream.

 

If you are on a restricted diet, those sorts of things are unbelievably delicious compared to some of the tasteless "healthy" stuff that's like eating cardboard.

The internet is a great source for items you KNOW you like but can't get.  What stinks is when they stop making the stuff you like, like my beloved bourbon mash ground flour. Made the best bread!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

© 2023 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...