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Time for a new movie about Billy the Kid


bkohatl
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Time for a new movie about Billy the Kid.
After everyone rallied to make sure that Billy McCarty(Bonney) wouldn't get the pardon that Governor Lew Wallace promised him in 1881 a couple of years ago, I think it is time for another movie about Billy. Almost all the movies until now, have failed to tell his story correctly.
I'll give you an example, Billy was actually a deputized office of the law, while Sheriff Pat Garrett, the man who shot Billy in an ambush, was actually previously an outlaw.
Billy was reputedly the second fastest gun in the West, after Wild Bill Hickok. Like Wild Bill, Billy used his reputation to keep him out of gunfights, not get him into trouble.
He was an incredibly good shot, but what made him really dangerous, he was ambidextrous and a dead shot with either hand.
Billy was an orphan at 14 and forced to survive on his own. Nobody has any right to complain, when you learn the facts he comes out much better than history records. One Western Historian called him the first Geek Gunslinger. He was a lot more well known for reading books, than shooting people---until Sheriff Garrett wrote Billy's(fictional) life story.
I remember reading an article about Billy when I was a kid. It made me mad, they had a picture of Billy's Mom's gravestone. The Chamber of Commerce labeled it Kathrine Antrim mother of Billy the Kid. She was the mother of Billy and Joe(they forgot him altogether) McCarty. And nobody ever had a bad thing to say about her boys until she died.
I have a photo of the real Billy on my blog, if you are interested and he definitely looks geeky: http://briankeithohara.blogspot.com/2014/11/billy-kid-was-more-likely-to-kill-off.html

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Time for a new movie about Billy the Kid.

After everyone rallied to make sure that Billy McCarty(Bonney) wouldn't get the pardon that Governor Lew Wallace promised him in 1881 a couple of years ago, I think it is time for another movie about Billy. Almost all the movies until now, have failed to tell his story correctly.

I'll give you an example, Billy was actually a deputized office of the law, while Sheriff Pat Garrett, the man who shot Billy in an ambush, was actually previously an outlaw.

Billy was reputedly the second fastest gun in the West, after Wild Bill Hickok. Like Wild Bill, Billy used his reputation to keep him out of gunfights, not get him into trouble.

He was an incredibly good shot, but what made him really dangerous, he was ambidextrous and a dead shot with either hand.

Billy was an orphan at 14 and forced to survive on his own. Nobody has any right to complain, when you learn the facts he comes out much better than history records. One Western Historian called him the first Geek Gunslinger. He was a lot more well known for reading books, than shooting people---until Sheriff Garrett wrote Billy's(fictional) life story.

I remember reading an article about Billy when I was a kid. It made me mad, they had a picture of Billy's Mom's gravestone. The Chamber of Commerce labeled it Kathrine Antrim mother of Billy the Kid. She was the mother of Billy and Joe(they forgot him altogether) McCarty. And nobody ever had a bad thing to say about her boys until she died.

I have a photo of the real Billy on my blog, if you are interested and he definitely looks geeky: http://briankeithohara.blogspot.com/2014/11/billy-kid-was-more-likely-to-kill-off.html

 

Interesting...from your blog

 

The one thing Billy the Kid never got in life was Justice

 

Hands up, don't shoot?

 

Making the movie is not the problem but keeping it accurate.  Myth and dramatic embellishment will always accompany a movie.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peMYV393xLQ

 

Actors that could play the role

 

Liam Hemsworth

 

liam-hemsworth-gallery.jpg

 

Ansel Elgort

 

Ansel%20Elgort-20140603-76.jpg

 

 

Do you hate when they use to make BS like this?

 

1938-Billy-the-Kid-Returns-Joe-Mane-USA-

 

This don't make any sense!  They should take the film cans and drive a stake through it.

 

billythekidvsdraculaonesheet.jpg

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I've only always saw that ONE old scratchy photo of Billy, but not even the HISTORY channel, who did a profile of him about a year ago, doesn't seem to have the two you showed in your blog( if indeed, they ARE of Billy), so I'm wondering where YOU got a hold of them...

 

AND why, with all the WORTHWHILE causes one can take up, you chose THIS?

 

 

Sepiatone

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There will always be speculation what actually happened in that house.  It's Pat Garrett's word against a dead man's reputation.

 

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/billythekid.htm

 

Separating fact from fiction will be a challenge for any producer. Like JFK... conspiracy theories to contend with.

 

https://symonsez.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/did-billy-the-kid-die-in-1881-or-1950-another-folklore-

 

Good thread idea, why not tackle the subject?

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There is no higher cause than to give someone justice, who didn't receive it in their lifetime.

There are many people, including myself, who believe Richard III was framed by Henry Tudor for the murder of the Princes in the Tower. Henry's ally and fellow traitor, Henry Stafford, the Duke of Buckingham was Constable of the Tower, the man actually in charge of the Tower of London, the Castle where Edward V and his brother Richard of York were staying before they were murdered.

He is the one man who knew the truth, he started a rebellion of his own, he had a claim for the crown, in parallel with Henry Tudor and the treasonous Stanleys.

 

Leo Frank is another case.

 

If Sheriff Brady had been honest and enforced the law justly, there were have been no Billy the Kid. Billy, Brady, Tunstall, McSween and Brewer would have all died in their beds.

 

The photo of the young Billy comes from his friend Dan Dedrick's family, the other one comes from another family connection.

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Only problem, both deputies were tied to the murder, in cold blood, of storeowner John Tunstall. Which is the event which started the Lincoln County War.

The Governor broke his word, after Billy testified before the Grand Jury, he promised to give Billy a pardon. He lied. Billy escaped after shooting both deputies, less than two weeks from his hanging.

 

Bob Olinger was a  bully, viciously beating Billy every chance he got, while he was handcuffed.

 

 

They had to have a grand jury, the British Government lodged a formal complaint over the murder of John Tunstall by Sheriff Brady. The Governor apparently was only buying time, lied to Billy, but had no intention of prosecuting and jailing the 50 men indicted by the Grand Jury for crimes occurring during the Lincoln County War. The fix was in, the corrupt men behind the murder of Tunstall, including the DA and the Judge who sentenced Billy to death, dropped charges against everyone else.

 

The only one ever convicted of any crime during the Lincoln County War, was Billy McCarty.

 

One panel of historians from Kenny Rogers The Real West, which was accurate, said nobody was what they seemed to be. And some of the worst, most cold-blooded murderers wore badges.

 

That isn't justice.

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One panel of historians from Kenny Rogers The Real West, which was accurate, said nobody was what they seemed to be. And some of the worst, most cold-blooded murderers wore badges.

 

 

 

That is very true, one of the biggest Hollywood myths is that sheriffs and U.S. Marshals i.e. Matt Dillion were straight god fearing upright people who fought the bad guys  wearing black. It's historically known that what the townspeople want were ex-outlaws with a badge on - they knew how their fellow outlaws think and fought.  There were no walk downs (only documented case was Wild Bill Hickok) 

 

Another documentary.

 

 

 

 

Oops posted a video already done. Post edited.

Edited by hamradio
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A documentary that ran on Encore Westerns told the stories of Billy and Jesse James which turned our perceptions of them upside down.  Jesse, long thought of as almost heroic, was much more violent than Billy who killed far less men than the "one for each year of his life".  He was still an outlaw but not to the extent that we've been led to believe.  American Ride also has a similar episode that backs up this idea.

I think it's only right to tell the true story about this man if that is possible.  We know that the Wyatt Earp story has been sanitized over the years until recently so this might be a needed opposite.  Some people will not buy it but that's their problem.

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HIGHER CAUSE?

 

Are you assering that Billy The Kid actually DIDN'T kill anyone?

 

But, IF he DID, wouldn't HIS death, regarless of it's happenstance, be considered "justice" for HIS victims?  And, wouldn't justice for THEM be far more important?

 

The ONLY "higher cause" to be served here is in getting the HISTORY accurate! 

 

And, WHAT'S with all this English TUDOR history?  Who really CARES?  I mean, if the BRITISH don't seem to really care, WHY should any of US give a SH!T?  EXCEPT, of course, to keep the HISTORY accurate!  But, I'm little interested in the accuracy of BRITISH history.  Which is also a sure bet that MOST Americans don't really care, either.

 

 

Sepiatone

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The ONLY "higher cause" to be served here is in getting the HISTORY accurate! 

 

 

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Before any new evidence is taken seriously, it will fall under scrutiny - mainly any new photos. They will first be examined for any traces of manipulation/alterations then facial features will be compared against the only authentic photo of Billy The Kid so far.

 

face1l.jpg

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HIGHER CAUSE?

 

Are you assering that Billy The Kid actually DIDN'T kill anyone?

 

But, IF he DID, wouldn't HIS death, regarless of it's happenstance, be considered "justice" for HIS victims?  And, wouldn't justice for THEM be far more important?

 

The ONLY "higher cause" to be served here is in getting the HISTORY accurate! 

 

And, WHAT'S with all this English TUDOR history?  Who really CARES?  I mean, if the BRITISH don't seem to really care, WHY should any of US give a SH!T?  EXCEPT, of course, to keep the HISTORY accurate!  But, I'm little interested in the accuracy of BRITISH history.  Which is also a sure bet that MOST Americans don't really care, either.

 

 

Sepiatone

The question then is, if the deputies and Sheriff of Lincoln committed first degree premeditated murder of John Tunstall. Which they did, what does that say about Billy's actions afterwards?   Billy was deputized to bring the murderers to justice. What you look for and don't find in Billy's story is innocent victims. It all depends on John Tunstall's murder, all evil in this story flows from that. Garrett's deputies were members of the Posse that committed the murder, then what does that say about them. I read that a friend of Billy's said he was the hand of the LORD, enforcing justice.  I think that the problem is that some look at it from a Law and Order point of view, I from a Justice point of view. Hitler and Stalin had law and order, but there was no justice. Just something to think about.

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The question then is, if the deputies and Sheriff of Lincoln committed first degree premeditated murder of John Tunstall. Which they did, what does that say about Billy's actions afterwards?   Billy was deputized to bring the murderers to justice. What you look for and don't find in Billy's story is innocent victims. It all depends on John Tunstall's murder, all evil in this story flows from that. Garrett's deputies were members of the Posse that committed the murder, then what does that say about them. I read that a friend of Billy's said he was the hand of the LORD, enforcing justice.  I think that the problem is that some look at it from a Law and Order point of view, I from a Justice point of view. Hitler and Stalin had law and order, but there was no justice. Just something to think about.

 

From everything I have read this seems to be true, and that also includes Billy. It also sounds like there may have never been a promise of a pardon for Billy either. He just assumed it perhaps, and suffered the consequences.

 

BTW the part about him being the second fastest gun alive I don't believe, something like that would not be a secret. I doubt he made the top 200.

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The question then is, if the deputies and Sheriff of Lincoln committed first degree premeditated murder of John Tunstall. Which they did, what does that say about Billy's actions afterwards?   Billy was deputized to bring the murderers to justice. What you look for and don't find in Billy's story is innocent victims. It all depends on John Tunstall's murder, all evil in this story flows from that. Garrett's deputies were members of the Posse that committed the murder, then what does that say about them. I read that a friend of Billy's said he was the hand of the LORD, enforcing justice.  I think that the problem is that some look at it from a Law and Order point of view, I from a Justice point of view. Hitler and Stalin had law and order, but there was no justice. Just something to think about.

 

It's called corruption.  The same thing happened in Welch, West Virginia on August 1, 1921 when Baldwin Felts agent ambushed and killed Sid Hatfield outside the McDowell Courthouse. No one were brought to justice claiming self defense.

 

d03322d8b337767a3ee5c851dda44df6.jpg

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From everything I have read this seems to be true, and that also includes Billy. It also sounds like there may have never been a promise of a pardon for Billy either. He just assumed it perhaps, and suffered the consequences.

 

BTW the part about him being the second fastest gun alive I don't believe, something like that would not be a secret. I doubt he made the top 200.

The Governor admitted that he promised him a pardon. Billy did exactly what he promised, testified before the grand jury. The Governor broke his word. Funny thing, the Governor and Territorial Legislature broke their word to Pat Garrett too.

Promised him a $500 reward, then later $5,000 reward. The state treasurer refused to pay the reward, even though Pat earned it.  Colorado Newspaper said it. New Mexico said, after Billy was gunned down in an ambush, nobody was stupid enough to get in a fair fight with him. They were a lot closer to the situation than we will ever be.

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I like this version:

 

dirtylittlebilly0eu.jpg

 

This is a story of the start of Billy The Kid's career party truth & party fiction.
 
***SPOILERS***
 
 
It starts with a shot of an American flag being raised over an end of track town. We see an approaching steam engine hanging off the running boards and from the cars are men. The train stops and disembarks its passangers. We see The McCarty family Cathrine & stepfather Henry and Billy Bonney McCarty (Michael J. Pollard) walk through the mud to town. Billys not sure that this move  from New York City is a good idea.
 
In town they meet up with business man Antrim (Charles Aidman) who sells them a farmstead near town. Billy's stepfather works Billy's hands raw and finnally chases him off since he's such a screw-up. Billy at first decides to head back east but changes his mind and ends up in town as a gofer between old business man Antrim's faction and young hot head Goldie, (Richard Evens) a young gambler/saloon/brothel owner who is a recluse never leaving his establishment who with his girfriend/prostitute Berle (Lee Purcell) run Goldie's. 
 
Billys NYC street smarts enable him to skim enough off the relationship to make it wothwhile and eventually he is able to form a quasi partnership with Goldie after helping out in a saloon brawl, even to the extent that Goldie shares Berle with Billy. 
 
Goldie's toughguy reputation rests solely on his New Model Army Colt which he pulls out and empties with out aiming whenever he's threatened, since none of his enemies can aim very well either more noise than damage is usually done. Goldie's barkeep referrs to Billy as "Kid". Billy eventually gets a Colt of his own and he practices aiming and shooting in the saloon, though he still hasn't the nerve to actually shoot anyone.
 
In the meanwhile Billy's stepfather dies and his mother eventually begins to sleep with Antrim. 
 
As the town becomes more respectable Antrim's faction connives a ruse deal with Goldie to force him & Berle to leave town. Its actually designed to get him out in the open so hired guns can gun him down. Antrim & Billy are in Goldie's when Goldie & Berle leave, Antrim grabs Billy from behind (in defference to Billy's mother) to prevent him from going out in the street as Goldie and Berle are being gunned down. Billy breaks free but not before Berle is killed and Goldie wounded.
 
Billy and Goldie head for the hills to find Big Jim McDaniel and his gang but the sleazeball outlaws find them, and first demand their money.  Either one or all of McDaniel's gang are pervs and one makes a grab for Billy, who this time pulls out his Colt and one, two, three, shoots them all down and "Billy the Kid" is born.
 
Goldie & Billy strip the bodies of all valuables even putting on the outlaws clothes over thier own, taking their boots too. One of the last shots is of Billy stuffing three revolvers into his waistband,
 
The film is enjoyable and worth a look if you can find it.
 
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