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Sweet Charity


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DownGoesFrazier:

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was budgeted at $6 Million--made $40 Million

 

"Fiddler On The Roof" (1971) was budgeted at $10 Million--made $83.3 Million

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" was budgeted at $10 Million--Made $14 Million.

 

"Paint Your Wagon" (1969) was budgeted at $20 Million--Made 31.7 Million

 

"Camelot" (1967) was budgeted at $13 Million--Made 31.1 Million.

 

All figures from Wikipedia.

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here is Sammy's big number from SWEET CHARITY, I have to be honest with you- almost everything in this scene besides Sammy is not right- the set, the lighting, the costumes (why is Maclaine dressed like a substitute teacher?), but nothing so much as the languid camera movements and editing, and- frankly uninspired staging of the whole thing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj9xsSuczes

 

Which gives you a good idea of how great Mr. Davis Jr. was that he made his appearance in the movie one of it's high points.  As I said in another thread, he is the greatest entertainer, ever.

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DownGoesFrazier:

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was budgeted at $6 Million--made $40 Million

 

"Fiddler On The Roof" (1971) was budgeted at $10 Million--made $83.3 Million

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" was budgeted at $10 Million--Made $14 Million.

 

"Paint Your Wagon" (1969) was budgeted at $20 Million--Made 31.7 Million

 

"Camelot" (1967) was budgeted at $13 Million--Made 31.1 Million.

 

All figures from Wikipedia.

 

Funny Girl (1968)--nuff said

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968)--tenth most popular US film

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Which gives you a good idea of how great Mr. Davis Jr. was that he made his appearance in the movie one of it's high points. As I said in another thread, he is the greatest entertainer, ever.

And yet, its so strange that his name doesn't get mentioned along with the likes of Michael Jackson, Judy Garland, Elvis and the other greats. And I'm not entirely sure why, because yeah absolutely the talent was there. I guess maybe there's a certain kitsch factor to Sammy Davis Jr, and maybe thats why he doesn't get the respect from some that he certainly deserves. Maybe there was also a sense, & I apologize for using any of these words, that there was a certain Uncle Tom factor going on, that he was making an attempt to "Whiten" his act.

 

But not only was Sammy Davis a great entertainer, I think he was also a figure who bridged the gap during the civil rights era and he's never gotten the credit for that that I think he really deserves.

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And yet, its so strange that his name doesn't get mentioned along with the likes of Michael Jackson, Judy Garland, Elvis and the other greats. And I'm not entirely sure why, because yeah absolutely the talent was there. I guess maybe there's a certain kitsch factor to Sammy Davis Jr, and maybe thats why he doesn't get the respect from some that he certainly deserves. Maybe there was also a sense, & I apologize for using any of these words, that there was a certain Uncle Tom factor going on, that he was making an attempt to "Whiten" his act.

 

But not only was Sammy Davis a great entertainer, I think he was also a figure who bridged the gap during the civil rights era and he's never gotten the credit for that that I think he really deserves.

I think you hit on something with the "kitch factor" you mentioned, particularly during the 1960's when he became so self-consciously "groovy, baby". It kind of alienated me at the time, though that's the kind of thing which fades as time goes on and we remember more the essence of the person. I always liked him and had some of his albums, though. A great talent and a good man, I think. As well as the gap he filled in the civil rights era, I think he had some of the same effect in the movie industry, with his very public relationship with Mae Britt. The relationship never survived all the public scrutiny, but it was a necessary reminder of how color-blind the movie industry wasn't at that time. He was also part of that first wave to break the color barrier in Vegas, which may have accounted for an initial inclination to "whiten" his act in order to keep working there.  

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I think you hit on something with the "kitch factor" you mentioned, particularly during the 1960's when he became so self-consciously "groovy, baby". It kind of alienated me at the time, though that's the kind of thing which fades as time goes on and we remember more the essence of the person.

 

and i have a somewhat different perspective- being born in 1978, my reaction to the platforms and the Nehrus and the love beads and the "sock it to me!" is "more, please."

 

But I can see how, at the time, it was a touch much.

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But not only was Sammy Davis a great entertainer, I think he was also a figure who bridged the gap during the civil rights era and he's never gotten the credit for that that I think he really deserves.

I have to agree that he was a guy who could do it all--act, sing, dance, play instruments. But I think there's also a lot of people at the time that looked at him as a sell out. I admired him but he was a complicated man with some issues.

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I have to agree that he was a guy who could do it all--act, sing, dance, play instruments. But I think there's also a lot of people at the time that looked at him as a sell out. I admired him but he was a complicated man with some issues.

He was also a Republican who was as close with Nixon as he was with Martin Luther King.

 

A mystery wrapped inside of a riddle wrapped inside of an enigma was Sammy.

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DownGoesFrazier:

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was budgeted at $6 Million--made $40 Million

 

"Fiddler On The Roof" (1971) was budgeted at $10 Million--made $83.3 Million

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" was budgeted at $10 Million--Made $14 Million.

 

"Paint Your Wagon" (1969) was budgeted at $20 Million--Made 31.7 Million

 

"Camelot" (1967) was budgeted at $13 Million--Made 31.1 Million.

 

All figures from Wikipedia.

These wiki figures must include some creative accounting. Anything I ever heard indicated that PAINT YOUR WAGON was a bomb.

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And yet, its so strange that his name doesn't get mentioned along with the likes of Michael Jackson, Judy Garland, Elvis and the other greats. And I'm not entirely sure why, because yeah absolutely the talent was there. I guess maybe there's a certain kitsch factor to Sammy Davis Jr, and maybe thats why he doesn't get the respect from some that he certainly deserves. Maybe there was also a sense, & I apologize for using any of these words, that there was a certain Uncle Tom factor going on, that he was making an attempt to "Whiten" his act.

 

But not only was Sammy Davis a great entertainer, I think he was also a figure who bridged the gap during the civil rights era and he's never gotten the credit for that that I think he really deserves.

 

I won't say one way or other about his "whitening."  It never seemed so to me.  In fact, some of his schtick verged on charicaturing his negroness (as it was had in his time).  I think he was born a little too early for him as an African-American to be recognized for his ability--especially as he was in competition with Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley.  And by the time an African-American could take the top spot, it was rock music that provided the venue.  It was Michael Jackson who took the opportunity presented.  He was known for whitening other things than his act.

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I have to agree that he was a guy who could do it all--act, sing, dance, play instruments. But I think there's also a lot of people at the time that looked at him as a sell out.

 

Remember-people said that about Sidney Poitier too. 

 

I loved Sammy and am most disturbed that his & Kim Novak's relationship was a "problem" for them. I am glad that sort of GUESS WHOS COMING TO DINNER thing is in the past for us now.

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DownGoesFrazier:

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was budgeted at $6 Million--made $40 Million

 

"Fiddler On The Roof" (1971) was budgeted at $10 Million--made $83.3 Million

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" was budgeted at $10 Million--Made $14 Million.

 

"Paint Your Wagon" (1969) was budgeted at $20 Million--Made 31.7 Million

 

"Camelot" (1967) was budgeted at $13 Million--Made 31.1 Million.

 

All figures from Wikipedia.

 

I think some of those figures are incorporating their gross to the present (2015ish) date, which include rentals and broadcast and rerelease and foreign markets over the years since, etc, because I know I read CAMELOT barely made back its cost in 1968....and those FIDDLER numbers seem adjusted for inflation.

 

the news that THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE has-to date- reached a $40 million gross is a surprise of sorts.

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I think some of those figures are incorporating their gross to the present (2015ish) date, which include rentals and broadcast and rerelease and foreign markets over the years since, etc, because I know I read CAMELOT barely made back its cost in 1968....and those FIDDLER numbers seem adjusted for inflation.

 

the news that THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE has-to date- reached a $40 million gross is a surprise of sorts.

I imagine HEAVEN'S GATE can be shown to be profitable if accounted for a certain way.

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You do the calculation and get back to me.

 

copied from wiki entry on HEAVEN'S GATE:

 

The film's $44-million cost (equivalent to about $122 million as of 2012) and poor performance at the box office ($3,484,331 gross in the United States) generated more negative publicity than actual financial damage, causing Transamerica Corporation, United Artists' corporate owner, to become anxious over its own public image and abandon film production altogether.

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copied from wiki entry on HEAVEN'S GATE:

 

The film's $44-million cost (equivalent to about $122 million as of 2012) and poor performance at the box office ($3,484,331 gross in the United States) generated more negative publicity than actual financial damage, causing Transamerica Corporation, United Artists' corporate owner, to become anxious over its own public image and abandon film production altogether.

Michael Cimino was maybe the hottest director around after THE DEER HUNTER. He cooled off very quickly.

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DownGoesFrazier--I agree; the "Paint Your Wagon" must include (I think--I can't account for them otherwise) Lee Marvin's sales for the novelty hit "I Was Born Under A Wand'rin Star" (Marvin's singing was SO awful, it made the record a minor hit?!)  There are two well sung songs in the film--skip it & get the Broadway soundtrack, if you're interested.

 

As for the other films:

 

"Fiddler On The Roof"  (1971) was the only major hit I listed--I Know it made money.

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was the last musical to make money before musicals started flopping (excepting Barbra Streisand's Funny Girl and Best Picture winner Oliver!, both in 1968).

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" Barely made it's money back or incurred a loss of maybe one  million--acceptable (I'm Guessing) to a mogul when other musicals are dropping 20 million dollars or more at the box-office. ("Star" (1968), "Goodbye Mr. Chips" (1969)--GMC dropped so much money Wikipedia doesn't have the grosses for it

 

"Camelot"--I'll go with LornaHansonForbes's numbers--I remember reading from more than one source that "Camelot" was a "financial disappointment" (fancy term for it made its' money back, but less than one million dollars profit).

 

Sorry to be late getting back to you, DownGoes Frazier.

 

LHF--My exact feelings about film of Paint Your Wagon--except fellow should have been wearing earmuffs. 

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I think some of those figures are incorporating their gross to the present (2015ish) date, which include rentals and broadcast and rerelease and foreign markets over the years since, etc, because I know I read CAMELOT barely made back its cost in 1968....and those FIDDLER numbers seem adjusted for inflation.

 

the news that THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE has-to date- reached a $40 million gross is a surprise of sorts.

While I admit Wikipedia is not a flawless source, the entry for the Fiddler on the Roof indicates that it was a hit and made a profit of $6 million for Universal upon initial release. I imagine that the $83 million figure is based on a subsequent re-release in 1979 and sales of VHS and DVDs.

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While I admit Wikipedia is not a flawless source, the entry for the Fiddler on the Roof indicates that it was a hit and made a profit of $6 million for Universal upon initial release. I imagine that the $83 million figure is based on a subsequent re-release in 1979 and sales of VHS and DVDs.

 

Oh yeah, FIDDLER was an out-and-out hit on release, I give you that.

 

I'm still struggling with wrapping my brain around that $40 mil ultimate gross for THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE though.

 

...Maybe Carol Channing should've played SWEET CHARITY.

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Oh yeah, FIDDLER was an out-and-out hit on release, I give you that.

 

I'm still struggling with wrapping my brain around that $40 mil ultimate gross for THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE though.

 

...Maybe Carol Channing should've played SWEET CHARITY.

I just looked at the entry on Wikipedia for Thoroughly Modern Millie mainly out of curiosity. It's not as well written as the entry for Fiddler, but there was a statement that it costs were $6 million and had $8.5 million in theater rentals upon release. But they do have the $40 million figure in the little box of facts on that page. It did get a lot of Oscar nominations so there may have been re-releases after the nominations and later years before the advent of home video rentals. I don't really know and really don't know what sites might have this info.

 

I hope you don't think I'm trying to start an argument with you or any other people on this thread. It's just that Millie & Fiddler are a couple of films I saw in the theater on initial release and they seemed to be pretty popular movies at the time.

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DownGoesFrazier--I agree; the "Paint Your Wagon" must include (I think--I can't account for them otherwise) Lee Marvin's sales for the novelty hit "I Was Born Under A Wand'rin Star" (Marvin's singing was SO awful, it made the record a minor hit?!)  There are two well sung songs in the film--skip it & get the Broadway soundtrack, if you're interested.

 

As for the other films:

 

"Fiddler On The Roof"  (1971) was the only major hit I listed--I Know it made money.

 

"Thoroughly Modern Millie" (1967) was the last musical to make money before musicals started flopping (excepting Barbra Streisand's Funny Girl and Best Picture winner Oliver!, both in 1968).

 

"On A Clear Day You Can See Forever" Barely made it's money back or incurred a loss of maybe one  million--acceptable (I'm Guessing) to a mogul when other musicals are dropping 20 million dollars or more at the box-office. ("Star" (1968), "Goodbye Mr. Chips" (1969)--GMC dropped so much money Wikipedia doesn't have the grosses for it

 

"Camelot"--I'll go with LornaHansonForbes's numbers--I remember reading from more than one source that "Camelot" was a "financial disappointment" (fancy term for it made its' money back, but less than one million dollars profit).

 

Sorry to be late getting back to you, DownGoes Frazier.

 

LHF--My exact feelings about film of Paint Your Wagon--except fellow should have been wearing earmuffs. 

 

Chips was made for a relatively modest 9 million budget. So it didn't lose a ton of money (though it didn't make much either)...Far cheaper than Star!, Camelot and many other roadshow attractions........

 

BTW, the recent Roadshow book is a great read. Plenty of details on the rise and fall of the big roadshow musical attractions and plenty of dish about the principals involved! Couldn't put it down........

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I think some of those figures are incorporating their gross to the present (2015ish) date, which include rentals and broadcast and rerelease and foreign markets over the years since, etc, because I know I read CAMELOT barely made back its cost in 1968....and those FIDDLER numbers seem adjusted for inflation.

 

the news that THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE has-to date- reached a $40 million gross is a surprise of sorts.

 

I wonder if that fact that THROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE was later adapted into a successful stage musical (opening on Broadway in 2002) renewed interest in the movie that was the stage musical's source.  

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