bhryun Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I watched 'Sunset Boulevard' last night and thoroughly enjoyed it...one of the best. However, each time I've seen it, I've wondered about the dead ape. Why is there a dead ape? Does it represent a child Norma never had or a specific person that may have been more familiar to a 1950 audience? Although Norma has numerous eccentricities, the dead ape just seems w-a-y to bizarre. I've tried searching the Internet but nothing explains the dead ape. Someone please explain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdimeo Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 You must not know much about those eccentric if not strange silent screen dames. I remember hearing that Pola Negri walked down Hollywood Boulevard with two tigers on a leash (at least I think it was tigers), and that Mary Miles Minter was an almost complete composite of Baby Jane Hudson (minus the mean streak). There are tons more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Nick, in all fairness, you didn't answer her question. It was obvious Norma cared about that ape for a long time and thought of it as a child. Chimps can live a long time. It just wasn't a prop for publicity as you are suggesting. She had the coffin made up special for him and had an elaborate funeral privately in the backyard, she didn't invite the press. It's my feeling it was placed there as a deliberate mystery, also as a warning to William Holder's character: if you get involved with this crazy dame, you might end up in a coffin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdimeo Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I think you offer a very good theory on the ape, Goldensilents. I just wanted to offer a few examples of other silent leading ladies who went a little overboard in the eccentric department, the author of this post did state that "the dead ape just seems w-a-y to bizarre". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhryun Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 This is kind of morbid but also kind of funny - you guys will appreciate it ... I don't have kids - last month my 16 yr old pomeranian Lucky passed away - I've been a mess! Anyway, I went out to find an appropriate tasteful decorative container for him - I wanted to bring his ashes home so he wouldn't be alone. As I was figuring out where to put the container I burst out laughing - I thought, "Oh my God - I've turned into NORMA DESMOND!!" So actually that lightened up the whole thing - and Lucky wouldn't mind - he has seen the movie, too! I think that the monkey showed that Norma had a lot of love to give but few outlets for it, so when she met Joe she had alot of (misguided) love to smother him with. - Madge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhryun Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks for the replies. In my opinion, the 'bizaareness' of the dead ape is apparent when compared to the rest of Norma's behavior that's known to the audience, i.e.: a New Year's eve party for two, glam glossies of herself, her Isotta Fraschini, etc. These behaviors are eccentric without being overt. But the dead ape seems to depict a particular behavior that may go beyond the 'normal' eccentric silent screen diva. The ape, when the sheet was pulled back, had gray hair and obviously died at an advanced age. It also was laid out as in the manner of a formal Victorian wake. So, Norma must have cared greatly for it. She also had it buried in a fine, white casket. I do like the two theories posed: the eccentric behavior of the early leading ladies and, the inherent warning that Gillis seems to understand but sets aside to fulfill his own ambition. Perhaps that's how Norma also began her career...ambitious until obsolete. After all, if it had been for publicity she probably would have invited Hopper to the ape's funeral. However, I only am somewhat acquainted with the silent movie era. That's the beauty of TCM. If it wasn't for TCM, I wouldn't have access to silent movies. I enjoy them very much and look forward to watching them on Sunday evenings. It's truly disappointing when Silent Sunday is cancelled...like during this and Oscar month. best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Sorry to hear about your dog's death, Madge. It's amazing how we grow attached to animals, so who's to say that Norma didn't love the little ape. It might have been an animal who had been on a picture shoot with her, she grew attached to it, and decided to adopt it. Maybe it's an alliteration to another type of animal Gloria Swanson became associated with on screen, the lion (Male and Female, 1919, a Cecil B. DeMille picture). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhryun Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 I am truly ashamed that I ventured into asking a question. As you can tell, this is only my third post and more than likely, my last. I never would have thought this topic would deteriorate into a foul-mouth forum. I appreciate the sincere postings but, please think about others who are reading this. best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lux0786 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ettabheeler, Why should you feel ashamed? It's not your fault. Your topic has nothing to do with this. We apparently have our own version of "The Bickersons" going here. This variety of open and personal hostility is not that common here at the TCM boards. Hopefully, it will pass. In the meantime, please don't get discouraged. Why don't you browse around here a bit and see if there is something that catches your interest. Let us know what you think about what you find. Welcome to TCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I had to ban Ed from my message board at Golden Silents (http://www.goldensilents.com) for foul language such as the type he is using here. Anyone who disagrees with him receives his ire. He went haywire because I dared to disagree with him over the topic of ladies' bustles, of all things. Then he went crazy because I won an eBay auction he wanted and called me names on my message board, very poor judgement to treat the administrator badly. In his fury he failed to understand that I would have shared a free copy of that film with him since he was at that time a member of my board, but calling me a "bum" publicly nixed that. Be wary, he's not a nice man. Take care. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 lying hag...... you ban everyone who disagrees with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Let's see, I have 99 members on my message board since it opened in May and I've only had to ban one person in all that time - you. Not because you disagreed with me, but because of your foul mouth, which is evident here for all to see. Speaking of which, aren't there moderators here to ban folks who break the rules of etiquette? Ed crossed the line in this thread 1) using foul language, 2) expressing a death wish towards a new member. Does the TCM message board tolerate this kind of bad behavior? Jill http://www.goldensilents.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtalkinghere3 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 "Does the TCM message board tolerate this kind of bad behavior?" Don't know, we never had a problem till you and Ed showed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyweekes70 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 "Does the TCM message board tolerate this kind of bad behavior?" Maybe not. I know I read a particularily rude and nasty comment posted here yesterday, which I replied to, expressing my concern over the use of inappropriate language and comments, and my response and the original, have vanished. Maybe I was dreaming. I would sincerely hope that these threads are not considered forums in which to air dirty laundry and assault people with rude and bitter statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 if the hag ever shut her yap there would be no problem.... but she'll rag on and on and on.... I've been on TCM boards for YEARS..... and that's my last word on this miserable woman. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansi4 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Johnny, your not dreaming. I saw your post yesterday, which was very good, and it suddenly vanished. I wond what's going on here? We certainly don't need this kind of language on our boards. Mongo Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Ever notice how arches run all through the film--most notably the Paramount gate? And as I mentioned before there are several "jungle" themes, possible a reference to Queen Kelly. Also interesting that every silent star they mention, with the exception of Chaplin, is dead. John Gilbert, Mabel Normand, Rudolph Valentino, Douglas Fairbanks, Marie Prevost..... any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtalkinghere3 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 "I've been on TCM boards for YEARS" That may be, but you also drew first blood with goldensilents with your comment on the Constance Bennett thread! Ordinarily I enjoy reading your posts, dredagain, but your off-topic forays are not appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 so then stop bring them up.... and I did not start it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 >.... and I did not start it. Do you have any idea how much you sound like a five year old child? As I said previously, your true colors come out again, Ed. Going back to the topic of the film, another thing I noticed about the film that I hadn't before were the lovely old silent film tunes they played in the ballroom dance scene between Swanson and Holden, like Diane from Seventh Heaven and Charmaine from What Price Glory? I enjoyed that music and the little gypsy orchestra who played it. Reminded me of the gypsy orchestra in Love In The Afternoon with Audrey Hepburn and Gary Cooper. Sweet. Jill http://www.goldensilents.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hello Everyone, I'm just now catching up on some of these threads. First, I don't see any derogatory comments with foul language here. Did I miss something? Is there a censor on board? A midnight eraser?? Second, what a great question! And, thanks for asking it; and please stay with us and ask some more questions, that's the only way you'll ever learn anything. Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.... The answer to your question is that the ape may be a cinematic metaphor for the future doom of William Holden (and that's a very good analyzation). But, Norma Desmond is a compilation of many old silent movie queens - mostly Mae Murray, but Mary Pickford, Mary Miles Minter and Mabel Normand are in there if you know where to look. The ape is a direct scene out of Norma Talmadge, who buried her tame ape, Chester, in the back yard in 1947. The ape died of cancer of the lung (he smoked!!). Third, Pola Negri never did walk tigers down any street in Hollywood. That would have endangered the public and surely violated some city bylaw.. Also, tigers and leopards are dangerous to handle. She did insist on a cheetah in "The Moonspinners" as they are more docile and trainable. That old story of her and those cats is all a Paramount publicity story. She did work with a panther on "Bella Donna" in 1923, but only with a handler. And, she did appear with a lion at a premier in 1924 ("Woman of the World"??) but only for pictures and didn't walk with it anywhere. The plain truth is Pola didn't like cats of any variety. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldensilents Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 >Did I miss something? Yes, someone finally removed Ed's foul language posts. First his bad words were bleeped out, then removed. Notice none of my posts had to be removed. Thanks for the tidbit on Norma Talmadge. I thought part of Norma Desmond's name came from combining her Norma T's first name and then perhaps another silent star's name like William Desmond, or perhaps the infamous William Desmond Taylor? (the murder angle would fit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fssbdgtsue59 Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 That dredagain needs to take a looonnnggg vacation from these boards until he can grow up and learn the real English language and know that there are other words out there with which he can express himself without being vulgar and blasphemous. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhryun Posted September 3, 2005 Author Share Posted September 3, 2005 The original post sparked some very interesting and enlightening information. I missed whatever was deleted and that's quite alright. To the original poster - I hope it won't be your last post! Stay, relax and enjoy! To Madge - My sympathies on the passing of your Lucky. I think you have a wonderful sense of humor; I hope you don't mind that I did get a giggle out of what you shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 and YOU CAN SHUT UP ANY TIME NOW...... like dogs with bones.... Jill banned me from her site because I disagreed with her..... end of story... and you can tell from these posts she's dtermined to have the last word and tell the "story" over and over and over and over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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