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Are biased “propaganda” films detrimental to a free thinking society?


JeanneCrain
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Although they do reflect the mentality of the social culture at that particular time in history, I am amused by some of those WWII propaganda film shorts occasionally aired on TCM - 

 

Support the killing of the world's children, buy war bonds!

 

:o

 

Chaplin's...Monsieur Verdoux '47 presented a poignant closing message regarding governmental sponsored genocide, where the convicted murdered was merely an amateur in the killing game.

 

Judge: Monsieur Verdoux, you have been found guilty. Have you anything to say before sentence is passed upon you? 

Henri Verdoux: Oui, monsieur, I have. However remiss the prosecutor has been in complimenting me, he at least admits that I have brains. Thank you, Monsieur, I have. And for thirty-five years I used them honestly. After that, nobody wanted them. So I was forced to go into business for myself. As for being a mass killer, does not the world encourage it? Is it not building weapons of destruction for the sole purpose of mass killing? Has it not blown unsuspecting women and little children to pieces? And done it very scientifically? As a mass killer, I am an amateur by comparison. However, I do not wish to lose my temper, because very shortly, I shall lose my head. Nevertheless, upon leaving this spark of earthly existence, I have this to say: I shall see you all... very soon... very soon.

 

While "Paths of Glory" '57 presented a disturbing social message regarding the "game" of human slaughter. 

 

Soldier 1: I'm not afraid of dying tomorrow, only of getting killed. 

Soldier 2: That's as clear as mud. 

Soldier 1: Well, which would you rather be done in by: a bayonet or a machine gun? 

Soldier 2: Oh, a machine gun, naturally. 

Soldier 1: Naturally, that's just my point. They're both pieces of steel ripping into your guts, only the machine gun is quicker, cleaner, and less painful, isn't it? 

Soldier 2: Yeah, but what does that prove? 

Soldier 1: That proves that most of us are more afraid of getting hurt than of getting killed. Look at Bernard. He panics when it comes to gas. Gas doesn't bother me a bit. He's seen photos of gas cases. Doesn't mean anything to me. But I'll tell you something though, I'd hate like the devil to be without my tin hat. But on the other hand I don't mind not having a tin hat for my tail. Why is that? 

Soldier 2: You're darn tootin', because... 

Soldier 1: Because I know a wound to the head would hurt much more than one to the tail. The tail is just meat but the head- ah, the head is all bone. 

Soldier 2: That's... 

Soldier 1: Tell me this. Aside from the bayonet, what are you most afraid of? 

Soldier 2: High explosives. 

Soldier 1: Exactly, and it's the same with me, because, because I know that it can chew you up worse than anything else. Look, just like I'm trying to tell you, if you're really afraid of dying you'd be living in a funk all the rest of your life because you know you've got to go someday, anyday. And besides... 

Soldier 2: Yes? 

Soldier 1: If it's death that you're really afraid of why should you care about what it is that kills you? 

Soldier 2: Oh, you're too smart for me, Professor. All I know is, nobody wants to die.

 

Both classic reflections of deranged societies claiming to be cultured.

:wacko: 

 

 

 

 

 

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Although they do reflect the mentality of the social culture at that particular time in history, I am amused by some of those WWII propaganda film shorts occasionally aired on TCM - 

 

Support the killing of the world's children, buy war bonds!

 

:o

 

Chaplin's...Monsieur Verdoux '47 presented a poignant closing message regarding governmental sponsored genocide, where the convicted murdered was merely an amateur in the killing game.

 

Judge: Monsieur Verdoux, you have been found guilty. Have you anything to say before sentence is passed upon you? 

Henri Verdoux: Oui, monsieur, I have. However remiss the prosecutor has been in complimenting me, he at least admits that I have brains. Thank you, Monsieur, I have. And for thirty-five years I used them honestly. After that, nobody wanted them. So I was forced to go into business for myself. As for being a mass killer, does not the world encourage it? Is it not building weapons of destruction for the sole purpose of mass killing? Has it not blown unsuspecting women and little children to pieces? And done it very scientifically? As a mass killer, I am an amateur by comparison. However, I do not wish to lose my temper, because very shortly, I shall lose my head. Nevertheless, upon leaving this spark of earthly existence, I have this to say: I shall see you all... very soon... very soon.

 

While "Paths of Glory" '57 presented a disturbing social message regarding the "game" of human slaughter. 

 

Soldier 1: I'm not afraid of dying tomorrow, only of getting killed. 

Soldier 2: That's as clear as mud. 

Soldier 1: Well, which would you rather be done in by: a bayonet or a machine gun? 

Soldier 2: Oh, a machine gun, naturally. 

Soldier 1: Naturally, that's just my point. They're both pieces of steel ripping into your guts, only the machine gun is quicker, cleaner, and less painful, isn't it? 

Soldier 2: Yeah, but what does that prove? 

Soldier 1: That proves that most of us are more afraid of getting hurt than of getting killed. Look at Bernard. He panics when it comes to gas. Gas doesn't bother me a bit. He's seen photos of gas cases. Doesn't mean anything to me. But I'll tell you something though, I'd hate like the devil to be without my tin hat. But on the other hand I don't mind not having a tin hat for my tail. Why is that? 

Soldier 2: You're darn tootin', because... 

Soldier 1: Because I know a wound to the head would hurt much more than one to the tail. The tail is just meat but the head- ah, the head is all bone. 

Soldier 2: That's... 

Soldier 1: Tell me this. Aside from the bayonet, what are you most afraid of? 

Soldier 2: High explosives. 

Soldier 1: Exactly, and it's the same with me, because, because I know that it can chew you up worse than anything else. Look, just like I'm trying to tell you, if you're really afraid of dying you'd be living in a funk all the rest of your life because you know you've got to go someday, anyday. And besides... 

Soldier 2: Yes? 

Soldier 1: If it's death that you're really afraid of why should you care about what it is that kills you? 

Soldier 2: Oh, you're too smart for me, Professor. All I know is, nobody wants to die.

 

Both classic reflections of deranged societies claiming to be cultured.

:wacko: 

 

To me that last sentence is a reflection of a black and white POV.   A society is made up of a group of people and therefore it can't be deranged or cultured.     Note I make this point when people use statement like "The American people,,,,' as a way to imply the people all think, feel and act alike.      

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Like my response to your other question, I think it depends on the individual as to how influenced they are by propaganda.  If an individual is free-thinking, then wouldn't it be their choice as to how swayed they are by the propaganda's message?

 

Not all propaganda necessarily has to be negative.  During WWII, there were many propaganda films made to mobilize the American home front to get their support for the war.  Stars sold war bonds to help raise money to fund the war, people obeyed ration regulations, lights out times, etc.  Disney made many propaganda films during this era that instructed people how to grow their own food to make the best use of ration times.  There were also films made to instruct people living in less affluent areas, like South America, how they can maintain proper hygiene and nutrition.  Disney also produced propaganda films like anti-Nazi films in order to show the American public what the men overseas were fighting against.  These films were obviously intended to keep an Anti-Axis sentiment in America, but also helped in keeping the country united. 

 

Obviously all propaganda has an intended message and purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be propaganda.  The filmmaker wants to use one medium to mobilize a large population to believe one opinion or another.  They have the right to create whatever propaganda they want.  It is up to the individual as to how they absorb the message.

 

 

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Although they do reflect the mentality of the social culture at that particular time in history, I am amused by some of those WWII propaganda film shorts occasionally aired on TCM - 

 

Support the killing of the world's children, buy war bonds!

 

 

Do you think we should have stayed out of WW II and allowed Germany to kill all the Jews, conquer England and Europe, and take over the world?

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Do you think we should have stayed out of WW II and allowed Germany to kill all the Jews, conquer England and Europe, and take over the world?

 

 Is mass killing and destruction ever a civilized solution?  :unsure:

 

Are there not similarities today between organizations such as the NSA and Homeland security and those of the German Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsfuhrers and Abwehr?  :huh:

 

 Will history regard Edward Snowden a traitor or hero?  :rolleyes:

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 Is mass killing and destruction ever a civilized solution?  :unsure:

 

Are there not similarities today between organizations such as the NSA and Homeland security and those of the German Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsfuhrers and Abwehr?  :huh:

 

 Will history regard Edward Snowden a traitor or hero?  :rolleyes:

 

You didn't answer my question.

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In actuality, all movies, books, newspapers, websites, speeches, advertisements, etc. are "propaganda."  Each person participating in the production has a viewpoint and it influences their actions and comments.

In a "Free Thinking Society" (whatever that is), each person can weigh the information presented and make their own decisions.

In a "Free Thinking Society" as envisioned by the title of this thread, some person or group would have to determine what is and is not propaganda.  Therefore, they have permitted their biases to control information.

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Do you think we should have stayed out of WW II and allowed Germany to kill all the Jews, conquer England and Europe, and take over the world?

 

You did stay out of the war. While the Commonwealth was fighting the Third Reich on behalf of the world for two and a half years, you contented yourselves with war profiteering.

 

That's why on the 7th of December each year I send a thank you note to Japan.

 

If it wasn't for them dragging you selfish d!cks into caring about what was happening in the world, Britain, Australia and Canada would've sustained further sacrifice for probably a couple of years longer than the six it took.

 

Who knew you'd enjoy the experience of victory so much you'd turn yourselves into a permanent war-economy?

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To me that last sentence is a reflection of a black and white POV.   A society is made up of a group of people and therefore it can't be deranged or cultured.     Note I make this point when people use statement like "The American people,,,,' as a way to imply the people all think, feel and act alike.      

Well, sure!

 

Don't many black people think all WHITE people think alike?

 

Don't many white people feel that way about BLACK PEOPLE?

 

And, don't BOTH of them feel that way about LATINOS and ASIANS???

 

A lot of this, for me, goes to the point of what makes something worthwhile?

 

Doesn't it seem to make life simpler, and be preferrable to have the way YOU wish things to be APPEAL to people?  Rather than have to FORCE them with threats of confinement and/or death if they didn't co-operate?  Wouldn't you PREFER to have people be devoted to you of their own volition?  Rather than spending resources and time in trying to prevent them from ESCAPING to other locations?

 

I don't know WHO, but I recall a quote by somebody I read many years ago....

 

"Make sure you're the kind of man who, when you dispose of ALL your enemies, there's MORE people LEFT!"

 

Or, as my grandmother once said, :

 

"Make the memory of you be an inspiration.  Not a warning. "  In other words, let the kind of person you were be an inspiration of how to be, NOT a warning of how NOT to be!

 

 

Sepiatone

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If it wasn't for them dragging you selfish d!cks into caring about what was happening in the world, Britain, Australia and Canada would've sustained further sacrifice for probably a couple of years longer than the six it took.

 

 

Let's not forget the Russians and other Soviets, the Chinese, Koreans and other Asians.

Just occured to me, ALL propaganda is biased by its very nature.

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 Is mass killing and destruction ever a civilized solution?  :unsure:

 

Are there not similarities today between organizations such as the NSA and Homeland security and those of the German Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsfuhrers and Abwehr?  :huh:

 

 Will history regard Edward Snowden a traitor or hero?  :rolleyes:

 

 Is mass killing and destruction ever a civilized solution?   :unsure:

 

For the globalist, it is.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Are there not similarities today between organizations such as the NSA and Homeland security and those of the German Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsfuhrers and Abwehr?   :huh:

 

No difference, tyranny is tyranny.  "Babylon 5" is coming true (faster than expected.)

There is also the TSA and the federalization of our local police force.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 Will history regard Edward Snowden a traitor or hero?   :rolleyes:

 

For me Snowden is a hero. Exposed the illegal, unconstitutional activity that people once called a conspiracy theory.  "1984" is close behind.

 

 

A nation of sheep will have a government of wolves.......Thomas Jefferson.

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Let's not forget the Russians and other Soviets, the Chinese, Koreans and other Asians.

 

Again - it took attacks on them to get them involved - just like the U.S.

 

The Commonwealth rose up immediately for the principle of freedom and faced off against the formidable German war machine - at great personal expense, especially Britain.

 

So again - thankyou, Japan - you dumb bastard who accidentally brought a whole host of new resources to the Commonwealth's heroic struggle.

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Personally, I think Snowden is an opportunist.  And he helped to create fear where none was previously, and needn't be perpetrated.

 

Now he's got my sister in law afraid to use her CELL PHONE!  Like the government has an extra 200 million people to assign to "Cell phone duty" whose chief function is to listen in to EVERYbody's cell phone conversations!  Like anybody in Washington DC GIVES a sh!t about her sciatica!

 

He exposed the ILLEGAL, alright!  Particularily, the illegality and irresponsibility of what HE'S done!

 

I kinda go along with what Dark is saying, even though I know my MOTHER would slap him silly for it.  But, when you consider, the U.S. was selling to Japan the oil and steel eventually used to manufacture the planes and ships that made the attack on pearl Harbor possible, even AFTER the atrocities of Shanghai were internationally known, and even NAZI GERMANY came out publicly and denounced them, WE offered up the TRULY American punishment and protest of RAISING THE PRICE of the oil and steel, INSTEAD of simply STOP SELLING it to them!  We DID kinda ask for it.

 

But FRED, no way take this to mean I think it was OK for Japan to do what they did, particularily the WAY they went about it.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Personally, I think Snowden is an opportunist.  And he helped to create fear where none was previously, and needn't be perpetrated.

 

Now he's got my sister in law afraid to use her CELL PHONE!  Like the government has an extra 200 million people to assign to "Cell phone duty" whose chief function is to listen in to EVERYbody's cell phone conversations!  Like anybody in Washington DC GIVES a sh!t about her sciatica!

 

He exposed the ILLEGAL, alright!  Particularily, the illegality and irresponsibility of what HE'S done!

 

 

 

Sepiatone

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/how-little-we-still-know-about-the-nsa-s-prism-program

 

NSA Utah Data Center

 

article-2337420-1A3017AE000005DC-343_634

 

130607_PRISM_ppt_3.jpg.CROP.original-ori

 

 

I guess all this is to is to keep tabs on the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

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Again - it took attacks on them to get them involved - just like the U.S.

 

The Commonwealth rose up immediately for the principle of freedom and faced off against the formidable German war machine - at great personal expense, especially Britain.

 

So again - thankyou, Japan - you dumb bastard who accidentally brought a whole host of new resources to the Commonwealth's heroic struggle.

So America (where people came to escape the madness and violence of the European tribal societies and vicious monarchies) after finally getting involved in a great European tribal war (WW1) after endless centuries of endless European tribal wars was supposed to jump right back in to the newest insane European tribal war brought on by the European stupidity called the Versailles Treaty.  Britain, the Commonwealth, and France sat on their collective scared butts from Sept. 1939 to May1940 W/O lifting a finger or a soldier to invade an exposed German homeland (the German Army was almost completely in the East (Poland)).  If the Western Allies (Britain minus the Irish who would no longer fight for the oppressive Brits, France, Commonwealth) had immediately taken decisive action eastward in Sept. 1939 much of WW2 might have been avoided but they sat on their collective frightened butts for months of the Phony War until a rapidly strengthened and now westward-oriented German Army and Luftwaffe demolished them in 6 weeks of utter annihilation.  Britain only survived in the summer of 1940 because of it's great moat (the English Channel).  None of the Commonwealth nations had any sincere desire to head back into another European tribal war in WW2 after their blood baths in WW1 fighting for "King and Empire".  For you to say so is ridiculous.  Most Commonwealth peoples just like Americans were beyond tired of endless European Tribal Wars.  Yes, Japan did a great favor for the Allies when they attacked Pearl Harbor.  Then Hitler stupidly declared war on America.  They focused both Commonwealth and American opinion against the Axis evil and saved Britain's and France's and Europe's collective butts while the Soviets (90% of European WW2 occurred in the eastern Nazi/Soviet death match) crushed Germany from the East.  Get off your high and mighty Canuck pedestal you live on. 

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darkblue:

I think you are reinterpreting history.  Great Britain and France only attacked Germany after it attacked Poland.  Actually just declared war on Germany due to a treaty obligation to Poland with no attack.

So, we can say that British Empire and French Empire did nothing until compelled to do so by an attack on an ally.

As regards, not attacking Germany during the "Phony War," neither France nor the British Empire had the military capacity to defeat Germany in 1939.  Not enough trained soldiers, airplanes, tanks, trucks, weapons, etc.

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Great Britain and France only attacked Germany after it attacked Poland.  Actually just declared war on Germany due to a treaty obligation to Poland with no attack. So, we can say that British Empire and French Empire did nothing until compelled to do so by an attack on an ally.

 

Yeah. You think the Commonwealth should've declared war on Germany for the fun of it?

 

Don't even talk to me about France. Even Italy probably could've taken those pretenders.

 

The Commonwealth went to war on behalf of Europe. The Russians and Americans realized advantages for themselves by not getting involved, and so they didn't.

 

Again, thankyou Japan.

 

And I would say thankyou Adolf for your moronic decision to punish Russia by attacking at the end of summer, except that it led to the sharing of the atomic bomb and the damnable cold war that "justified" an out-of-control military-industrial complex that feeds the powerful at the expense of everyone.

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darkblue:

I think you are reinterpreting history.  Great Britain and France only attacked Germany after it attacked Poland.  Actually just declared war on Germany due to a treaty obligation to Poland with no attack.

So, we can say that British Empire and French Empire did nothing until compelled to do so by an attack on an ally.

As regards, not attacking Germany during the "Phony War," neither France nor the British Empire had the military capacity to defeat Germany in 1939.  Not enough trained soldiers, airplanes, tanks, trucks, weapons, etc.

Britain and France DID have enough to seriously attack western Germany in 1939 while the Germans were engaged in Poland.  The French especially had more tanks and heavier tanks than the Germans but not the will (after the ww1 bloodletting to hit Germany's thin western Army in 1939).  The Brits and French had heavy forces including aircraft/tanks across from Germany but not the will to attack.  Who knows if the Brits and French had heavily attacked Germany right away in 1939 the Soviet Army (took half of Poland in late Sept. 1939) might have dropped their new Treaty with the Germans and attacked westward.  The German Army in Sept. 1939 was not the supreme fighting force it became by 1941 when they hit the Soviet Union in the greatest invasion in human history.  In 1939 the Germans were still rearming and Hitler took a great chance that his generals did not want to take yet.  Britain and France let him get away with it until Hitler attacked them at a time and place of his own choosing.  In 1939/40 the Germans did not have the heavier tanks of the later war (Panther and Tiger tanks).  They heavily used light tanks and medium tanks.  Even the most stalwart German tank of the war (the Panzer IV) was not heavily in usage yet.  Britain and France let slip their greatest WW2 opportunity when they did not attack Hitler soon after declaring war on Germany while the Germans had most of their forces in Poland.  They could have and would have caused great havoc in western Germany.  Who knows what might have resulted but by doing nothing at all they sealed their fates in May 1940.

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So America (where people came to escape the madness and violence of the European tribal societies and vicious monarchies) after finally getting involved in a great European tribal war (WW1) after endless centuries of endless European tribal wars was supposed to jump right back in to the newest insane European tribal war brought on by the European stupidity called the Versailles Treaty.  Britain, the Commonwealth, and France sat on their collective scared butts from Sept. 1939 to May1940 W/O lifting a finger or a soldier to invade an exposed German homeland (the German Army was almost completely in the East (Poland)).  If the Western Allies (Britain minus the Irish who would no longer fight for the oppressive Brits, France, Commonwealth) had immediately taken decisive action eastward in Sept. 1939 much of WW2 might have been avoided but they sat on their collective frightened butts for months of the Phony War until a rapidly strengthened and now westward-oriented German Army and Luftwaffe demolished them in 6 weeks of utter annihilation.  Britain only survived in the summer of 1940 because of it's great moat (the English Channel).  None of the Commonwealth nations had any sincere desire to head back into another European tribal war in WW2 after their blood baths in WW1 fighting for "King and Empire".  For you to say so is ridiculous.  Most Commonwealth peoples just like Americans were beyond tired of endless European Tribal Wars.  Yes, Japan did a great favor for the Allies when they attacked Pearl Harbor.  Then Hitler stupidly declared war on America.  They focused both Commonwealth and American opinion against the Axis evil and saved Britain's and France's and Europe's collective butts while the Soviets (90% of European WW2 occurred in the eastern Nazi/Soviet death match) crushed Germany from the East.  Get off your high and mighty Canuck pedestal you live on. 

 

Hey rr ol' buddy, not a bad reply here, I must say!

 

(...but I think James Garner might have said all this a little better and definitely more succinctly during a certain scene with Julie Andrews in THE AMERICANIZATION OF EMILY, dude!!!) ;)

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