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HOTEL BERLIN's ...


Palmerin
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... screed at the end--signed by Churchill, FDR and Stalin--is a rather humorous reminder of the nefarious intentions that the Allies had towards Germany.

There was serious consideration of the possibility of depriving G of all its heavy industry and making the country a basically agricultural state. There was even an organization, SOCIETY FOR THE PREVENTION OF WORLD WAR III*, presided by Rex Stout and William Shirer, that plotted the possibility of breaking up G into different countries, so that there would no longer be an unified German state.

Only the betrayal of the Allies by Stalin--who wasted no time in picking up where Hitler had left off--prevented these twisted schemes from being put into effect.

*For some inexplicable reason, WWIII is known by the euphemistic name of Cold (!!!) War.

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Two goofs:

Even though this story takes place in Germany, all the written and printed material is in English.

The note that Raymond Massey sends to Andrea King is not only in English, but also in American handwriting, which is very different from the script that Germany used in 1945.

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*For some inexplicable reason, WWIII is known by the euphemistic name of Cold (!!!) War.

 

And because of course a lot fewer lives were snuffed out in the world during the "third version" than in the "second version".

 

Well, at least a lot fewer Caucasian lives anyway, as of course the great post-WWII powers would subsequently fight smaller "proxy wars" primarily involving locales not inhabited by that particular race of people.

 

(...but I'm sure you knew this)

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And because of course a lot fewer lives were snuffed out in the world during the "third version" than in the "second version".

 

Well, at least a lot fewer Caucasian lives anyway, as of course the great post-WWII powers would subsequently fight smaller "proxy wars" primarily involving locales not inhabited by that particular race of people.

 

(...but I'm sure you knew this)

If you include everybody who died in China because of Mao the number increases enormously. Aren't the 12 million who died because of the Shoah a part of the overall casualties of WWII?

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Well I thought Hotel Berlin was rather silly myself and while you waited to see if anyone would change sides (to that of the escapee) I thought the whole thing an exercise in ridiculousness....with the wine and champagne flowing and the clothes, I don't think, even for the Nazis,  Berlin was in that great a shape at the time the film was supposed to take place.

 

As for the issue of the Stalin's betrayal of the Allies....I think a little more digging into history, especially the results of the Yalta Conference would note that Stalin actually blackmailed the Allies and it indeed was not one of Churchill's finest moments however he was aided by Roosevelt. Roosevelt really thought Stalin liked him and he could charm Stalin with his personality and winning smile.  But by the time of the Yalta Conference Roosevelt's health was vastly compromised, if you'll take a look at photo-ops of the conference, and Stalin knew this...besides his whole idea of fighting WWII was to avoid Germany taking over Western Russia and moving in on territory thought to meet his needs of providing a buffer between the West and the USSR.  What the Germans wanted was access to the fertile regions of the Ukraine to feed its population, which it could not do within the boders of Germany, Austria and Poland.  It also had plans to ship the "non-Arayns" to the Oestland regions, however Stalin's entry into the War snuffed that idea...giving way to the Germans' snuffing plans of their own.  That is why you will find a majority of the concentration camps to the east of Germany. 

 

As for total victims of WWII, I think there is a rough estimate of about 48 million if you add in the allies which would include China and others.  This total is civilians and military combined.  Yours truly....a purveyour of all things WWII.

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Well I thought Hotel Berlin was rather silly myself and while you waited to see if anyone would change sides (to that of the escapee) I thought the whole thing an exercise in ridiculousness....with the wine and champagne flowing and the clothes, I don't think, even for the Nazis,  Berlin was in that great a shape at the time the film was supposed to take place.

 

As for the issue of the Stalin's betrayal of the Allies....I think a little more digging into history, especially the results of the Yalta Conference would note that Stalin actually blackmailed the Allies and it indeed was not one of Churchill's finest moments however he was aided by Roosevelt. Roosevelt really thought Stalin liked him and he could charm Stalin with his personality and winning smile.  But by the time of the Yalta Conference Roosevelt's health was vastly compromised, if you'll take a look at photo-ops of the conference, and Stalin knew this...besides his whole idea of fighting WWII was to avoid Germany taking over Western Russia and moving in on territory thought to meet his needs of providing a buffer between the West and the USSR.  What the Germans wanted was access to the fertile regions of the Ukraine to feed its population, which it could not do within the boders of Germany, Austria and Poland.  It also had plans to ship the "non-Arayns" to the Oestland regions, however Stalin's entry into the War snuffed that idea...giving way to the Germans' snuffing plans of their own.  That is why you will find a majority of the concentration camps to the east of Germany. 

 

As for total victims of WWII, I think there is a rough estimate of about 48 million if you add in the allies which would include China and others.  This total is civilians and military combined.  Yours truly....a purveyour of all things WWII.

A grandmother with her grandson was watching a newsreel featuring Roosevelt. She looked carefully at FDR, and when the newsreel was over she turned to her grandson and told him:

Child, what you saw in front of you was a dying man. Mr. Roosevelt will not live another year.

That was in October of 1944; in 12 April 1945 FDR suffered the stroke that killed him.

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Always interesting to see "American" interpretations of European, Asian and Middle Eastern history and politics.   I majored in history in college and spent most of my military career in units tasked with liason between US military and foreign civilians. I can attest that nobody else in the world thinks or behaves as Americans do.  Also, we are truly a blessed nation - politically, economically, socially and most importantly, free of warfare on American mainland since 1865.  Not counting the "Indian Wars."

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Well, Uncle Joe did keep Germany divided for almost fifty years,

though without the deindustrialization. I can't really blame the old

boy for staying in Eastern Europe. Russia had been attacked by

Germany twice in the space of around twenty-five years. Why

not have a buffer zone just in case?

It was Russia that attacked Germany in 1914.

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Always interesting to see "American" interpretations of European, Asian and Middle Eastern history and politics.   I majored in history in college and spent most of my military career in units tasked with liason between US military and foreign civilians. I can attest that nobody else in the world thinks or behaves as Americans do.  Also, we are truly a blessed nation - politically, economically, socially and most importantly, free of warfare on American mainland since 1865.  Not counting the "Indian Wars."

 

No one behaves as Americans do?  Isn't that a very broad statement to make?    e.g.  people in other countries eat.    That is a behavior.

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It was Russia that attacked Germany in 1914.

Actually Austria started it all by declaring war on Serbia which obligated Germany and then Serbia's ally Russia had to declare war on Austria.  Then we get Britain and France and Italy.  So, historically speaking Austria and Germany started the war and Russia made a "defensive" attack.  Not sure if Germany declared war on Russia first or vice-versa.

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No one behaves as Americans do?  Isn't that a very broad statement to make?    e.g.  people in other countries eat.    That is a behavior.

Eating is not a behavior, animals and fish eat.  It's how they eat, where they eat, what foods they eat (and don't eat), etc.  My statement may be a little too broad, but rest of the world does not behave as Americans do most of the time politically, socially, morally, religiously, economically, etc.  Naturally there are some similarities since we are a nation of immigrints and have had influences on rest of the world.

But, my point is other people and nations are different and too often Americans expect them to do as we do or at least as we say.

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But, my point is other people and nations are different and too often Americans expect them to do as we do or at least as we say.

The Cid is absolutely right in respects to Americans abroad.  Being a frequent flier to other countries as well as living abroad for a number of years I did my best to reduce the impact of "Americanism".  Fortunately I grew up in a "English" home in the United States so my table manners matched most Europeans and I learned to curb my public displays.

 

But regardless of what you do...or how you act for some reason they alway peg you, whether for good or bad.  So I just try to blend in as best as I can...use what language skills I have in the language of the country (irrespective of the Orient, which I just rely on pointing and smiling).

 

How we got on to this topic as part of the Hotel Berlin I don't know.  Now I've digressed, oh well.

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Eating is not a behavior, animals and fish eat.  It's how they eat, where they eat, what foods they eat (and don't eat), etc.  My statement may be a little too broad, but rest of the world does not behave as Americans do most of the time politically, socially, morally, religiously, economically, etc.  Naturally there are some similarities since we are a nation of immigrints and have had influences on rest of the world.

But, my point is other people and nations are different and too often Americans expect them to do as we do or at least as we say.

 

I think there are a lot more similarities than difference but I understand what you were getting at now.   As for 'nation of immigrants' to me that is the main reason Americans are 'different' but related to saying 'have had influences on the rest of the world' I would also say these immigrants had major influences on how we behave.

 

Sorry, not trying to be a contrarian since it appears we have a similar POV but just phase it differently.   e.g. my wife is from a small southern Italian town and my mom from Japan.   Where they grew up and lived (into their 20s),   99% of the people in their area were born in that area, as were their parents, grandparents etc....    This is much different than where I grew up in So Cal where 50% or more of the people are transplants.      

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The Cid is absolutely right in respects to Americans abroad.  Being a frequent flier to other countries as well as living abroad for a number of years I did my best to reduce the impact of "Americanism".  Fortunately I grew up in a "English" home in the United States so my table manners matched most Europeans and I learned to curb my public displays.

 

 

So then Emily, I take it while you're(or maybe in your case, "whilst you're"?) dining and eating a steak lets say, you just place your fork upside-down in your left hand, cut pieces of that sucker off with a knife in your right hand, and then insert said pieces of steak directly into mouth via said upside-down oriented fork in your left hand, and INSTEAD of this whole American version of switching the fork back to your right hand, RIGHT?!

 

Well, I guess that's okay.

 

(...but PLEASE don't tell me that you as a good American gal EVER spell certain words in the language with that dumb superfluous-U, 'cause THAT is of course something NO good American should EVER do!!!!) 

 

;)

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