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What happened to the "old movies on YouTube" thread?


FredCDobbs
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TopBilled,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

Fred

You're welcome. Probably an acceptable compromise (ask the moderator) would be if you did what I've done in several of the genre sub-forums. I mention certain titles that do not air on TCM as being available elsewhere online. I say where but I don't provide the link-- and people can find them on their own, if they wish. Here's the one I did in the musicals section:

 

http://forums.tcm.com/index.php?/topic/52587-classic-musicals-online/

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Yeah, thanks.

 

At my age, when I can't find something, I don't know if it is gone for a reason or I just can't find it.

 

Let me know if you ever find my missing car keys.

 

:)

 

Fred

I seem to be the victim of collateral damage in today's housecleaning. I had an innocuous post in the General Discussion forum thanking HoldenIsHere for posting the new Star Wars movie trailer. Gone! Into the cornfield..

:huh:

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I posted a few myself. Remember, a lot of those posts here are from movies that have been on YouTube a long time. Years...

 

Got a little busybody anywhere you go. Thanks for the great thread Fred.

 

I believe moderators at websites like this have a legal duty to remove links to unauthorized material.    So the busybody was just doing their job.       The fact that unauthorized material has been on a site for a long time is meaningless, but I guess you're no different than the majority of people in China.

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I believe moderators at websites like this have a legal duty to remove links to unauthorized material.    So the busybody was just doing their job.       The fact that unauthorized material has been on a site for a long time is meaningless, but I guess you're no different than the majority of people in China.

I'm not talking about the moderator jimmie. It's the person who complained about the posts transferred from the YouTube to this site.

 

You have training in the law?

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It's the person who complained about the posts transferred from the YouTube to this site.

 

 

But it's not right to make that person the fall-guy. I believe the poster objected because he is a fan of Hollywood, and he believes that Hollywood business shouldn't suffer because people are pirating and illegally sharing copyrighted material.

 

Now we all know that some of what's on Youtube is public domain material, and legally it is okay to post and share some of it. But you have to be aware of what's free to use and what's not free-- and a lot of people do not take the time to research it.

 

This said, I do believe that everything on the Internet Archive is in the public domain. So links to those files should not be a problem or a violation of TCM's policies. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to confirm this with the moderator.

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But it's not right to make that person the fall-guy. I believe the poster objected because he is a fan of Hollywood, and he believes that Hollywood business shouldn't suffer because people are pirating and illegally sharing copyrighted material.

 

 

Yeah, I made a killing transferring little YouTube movies on to Fred's thread. It was fun, enjoyable and informative for many. He's a little busybody.

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Yeah, I made a killing transferring little YouTube movies on to Fred's thread. It was fun, enjoyable and informative for many. He's a little busybody.

LOL...well in this case the so-called busybody was technically in the right and our mod sided with him. 

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I believe moderators at websites like this have a legal duty to remove links to unauthorized material.

 

They do not.

 

The 9th Circuit Court held in: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd.,  545 U.S. 913, (2005) that a party may be liable for contributory infringement if it "knowingly takes steps that are substantially certain to result in direct infringement" by others. This places a high bar. To be in violation of copyright law, a site would have to actively encourage links to infringing material.

 

The 9th Circuit Court held in: Perfect 10, Inc. v. Google, Inc., 508 F.3d 1146 that linking does not invoke copyright law because no copy of the material is made on the computer(s) hosting the link.

 

While there is no legal requirement for them to remove such links prior to notice from a copyright holder, I am sure that TCM wishes to err on the side of caution because of its close links to movie studios, and they have every right to determine what is appropriate for their site. 

 

I must wonder how they would feel if I revived my old thread concerning movies which Mosfilm has made available on YouTube. For those who do not know: Mosfilm is a studio older than MGM which has an extensive library of movies ranging from the silent era to modern times. They have made many of their wonderful movies available for viewing for free on YouTube.

 

I must also wonder now how they will feel about my thread concerning Public Domain movies available at: archive.org.

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I must also wonder now how they will feel about my thread concerning Public Domain movies available at: archive.org.

Silly. All anyone has to do is directly private message the mod and clarify whether or not a thread's topic and content is suitable. Easy to do!

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Hahaha, this busybody here is detecting a tinge of disappointment and bitterness from you all who put SO so much "work" into the Youtube thread.  But didn't I warn you politely in that thread, to which you essentially responded with a "F U, talk to the mod"?  Needless to say, I'm feeling effing happy right now.  And STOP BEING DISINGENUOUS to everyone by saying I "snitched" on you. YOU WERE THE ONE WHO DEFIANTLY TOLD ME TO TELL THE MOD.  See, I merely did what you told me to, LOL.  Next time, be careful of what you wish for.

 

 


The 9th Circuit Court held in: Perfect 10, Inc. v. Google, Inc., 508 F.3d 1146 that linking does not invoke copyright law because no copy of the material is made on the computer(s) hosting the link.

 

That's why nobody has come to your home to arrest you yet!  Forum rules DON'T have to follow federal laws.  As I said in my post to the mod, you go to any film forums, even PORN FILM FORUMS, and you'll likely find the same rules.  Posting a link may not be illegal, but UPLOADING PIRATED MATERIAL CERTAINLY IS.  So is downloading them.  So don't blame others for making rules that make it inconvenient for

(edited)  who try to rationalize posting illegal uploads obtained from SOMEBODY ELSE'S HARD WORK.

Edited by TCMModerator1
name calling
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They do not.

 

The 9th Circuit Court held in: Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd.,  545 U.S. 913, (2005) that a party may be liable for contributory infringement if it "knowingly takes steps that are substantially certain to result in direct infringement" by others. This places a high bar. To be in violation of copyright law, a site would have to actively encourage links to infringing material.

 

The 9th Circuit Court held in: Perfect 10, Inc. v. Google, Inc., 508 F.3d 1146 that linking does not invoke copyright law because no copy of the material is made on the computer(s) hosting the link.

 

While there is no legal requirement for them to remove such links prior to notice from a copyright holder, I am sure that TCM wishes to err on the side of caution because of its close links to movie studios, and they have every right to determine what is appropriate for their site. 

 

I must wonder how they would feel if I revived my old thread concerning movies which Mosfilm has made available on YouTube. For those who do not know: Mosfilm is a studio older than MGM which has an extensive library of movies ranging from the silent era to modern times. They have made many of their wonderful movies available for viewing for free on YouTube.

 

I must also wonder now how they will feel about my thread concerning Public Domain movies available at: archive.org.

 

Thanks for the clarity.   Even without a legal duty IMO the right thing for a website admin to do is to remove these links UNLESS the link is to material in the public domain or the owner of content has authorized the viewing.     

 

I'm surprised you would even mention public domain movies or links to films from Mosfilm.  You're wise enough to know the point here is about movies where the owner has NOT authorized viewing.   

 

I admit I'm sensitive to this since I make a living writing software that is often stolen and used without permission  (sadly no one wishes to steal the music I make!).

 

But it does appear many people,  that wouldn't steal from their local grocery store,  feel it is A-OK to do so with copy written material.   This is the same mindset that leads to so much insurance fraud.    But why not steal from WalMart,  since they make billions every year???

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Thanks for the great thread Fred.

 

Thanks Jake, Kidd, and others,

 

I would like to remind everyone that when I first started the YouTube thread, I posted links only to different YouTube pages. I posted NO imbeds. You might recall that the old version of the TCM message board software would not accept imbeds and had NO imbed system.

 

A year or two later, when the software of this board was changed, all of a sudden most YouTube links I had posted earlier had suddenly turned into imbedded links and message board helpers and experts here taught us how to make direct film imbeds.

 

I went back to look at my first several months of my original YouTube links, and I found that many of those old links had automatically turned into imbedded links.

 

Fred

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Thanks for the clarity.   Even without a legal duty IMO the right thing for a website admin to do is to remove these links UNLESS the link is to material in the public domain or the owner of content has authorized the viewing.     

 

 

It is a very difficult issue because a person browsing a video-hosting site has no reasonable method of determining whether any particular video is in Public Domain or if the studio/producer has authorized the upload other than statements made on the site.

 

The full responsibility for determining legality of any particular video on a site rests solely with the site which has allowed the video to be uploaded onto their computer(s) since the upload is a copy of the material. 

 

Since its inception, YouTube has been one of the "good guys" concerning copyright infringement. They were instrumental in crafting the process by which studios can quickly and easily notify sites of infringing material. They quickly delete all instances of copyright infringement when it is found and ban users for repeatedly violating copyright laws. I have been told that they are active also in behind-the-scenes analysis and detection to prevent those banned from creating new accounts under different names. 

 

I am sorry to say that I do not understand the current hubbub. It is not as if there had a been a: "Watch this video I uploaded before it is removed for copyright infringement" thread. 

 

A video which has been available on YouTube several years is de facto not an infringing copy because studios routinely scan the site and issue take-down notices which YouTube quickly honors. I believe that it must be quite rare for an infringing video to escape detection for any considerable length of time.

 

I understand that this is a sensitive issue for TCM because of its business ties to studios. I personally feel that deleting an entire thread which did not create, support, or encourage copyright infringement in any manner was a bit heavy-handed, but I recognize that it is their right to make such decisions.

 

I must wonder if they will now remove the ability to post links to any videos on this site.

 

I share your concerns, jamesjazzguitar, concerning copyrights. My own publications have been in academic journals. It is known well that professors copy what they wish with no concern for law or ethics. It is also that my husband writes fiction. Part of his income comes from royalties.

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When this new software started to be used, TCM encouraged embeds of films and videos from other websites.

 

See some of the posts ABOVE this one.....

 

Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:14 AM

 

I cannot figure out how to get a you tube video link to appear inside my post.

What exactly do need to do to have the You Tube image appear, instead of just a link???

When I simply copied the You Tube link and pasted it into the post, just the link appears

 

See the Stickies thread titled :

 

Useful information for the new boards

 

http://forums.tcm.com/index.php?/topic/48473-useful-information-for-the-new-boards/

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It is a very difficult issue because a person browsing a video-hosting site has no reasonable method of determining whether any particular video is in Public Domain or if the studio/producer has authorized the upload other than statements made on the site.

 

The full responsibility for determining legality of any particular video on a site rests solely with the site which has allowed the video to be uploaded onto their computer(s) since the upload is a copy of the material. 

Don't agree with your comments at all. It is not difficult to find a listing of public domain films on wiki (and I am sure other places online have such information). Also, if you think something may still be copyrighted, usually some sort of contact email can be found for the rights holder--and a simple query can be conducted. It just takes a bit of effort.

 

And it is definitely not the full responsibility of a site like TCM to determine which links go to copyrighted material. Can you imagine how busy the moderator(s) would be having to do all that detective work? That is not their job. Instead, the responsibility is shared by each person who signs up and uses these forums, agreeing to the policies of TCM, and its parent company.

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