I stuck with Night Moves until. . . .

[slaytonf]

. . . .Delly's phone message.  I would have turned off when they found the flesh-eating-fish-in-the-downed-plane scene.  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  You mean to tell me in all the vasty water in the Gulf or Caribbean, they just happen to come across the little single prop wreck by chance?  Sorry, no.  I think the reason Paula got disenchanted with Harry is he didn't pick up on it--after all, she piloted the boat.  You can credit my perseverance to Gene Hackman, the only thing worthwhile in this movie.  This is the only instance I can recall where somebody made something out of nothing through sheer ability.  Unfortunately I wasn't enough to get me by the scene he accidentally turns on the message machine, and it just happens to have a message from Delly, and she's just about to say something about the plane--when Ellen walks in, and provides the excuse for him not listening to the rest of it.  Oh, please. . . .

 

But, hey, isn't that Gene Hackman the gol-darndest actor?  I'm gonna go and watch The Conversation again.  He should be a star of the month.

[jakeem]

I liked the movie a lot more than you did. To me, it's one of the overlooked gems of the 1970s. But you're right about Hackman. His film career is underappreciated, but nonetheless great.

[hamradio]

I think the Post button got stuck. 

[Tikisoo]

I think the Post button got stuck. 

 

Naw, he's just competing with the troll for "most posts" on page 1

[JamesJazGuitar]

. . . .Delly's phone message.  I would have turned off when they found the flesh-eating-fish-in-the-downed-plane scene.  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  You mean to tell me in all the vasty water in the Gulf or Caribbean, they just happen to come across the little single prop wreck by chance?  Sorry, no.  I think the reason Paula got disenchanted with Harry is he didn't pick up on it--after all, she piloted the boat.  You can credit my perseverance to Gene Hackman, the only thing worthwhile in this movie.  This is the only instance I can recall where somebody made something out of nothing through sheer ability.  Unfortunately I wasn't enough to get me by the scene he accidentally turns on the message machine, and it just happens to have a message from Delly, and she's just about to say something about the plane--when Ellen walks in, and provides the excuse for him not listening to the rest of it.  Oh, please. . . .

 

But, hey, isn't that Gene Hackman the gol-darndest actor?  I'm gonna go and watch The Conversation again.  He should be a star of the month.

 

Funny you mention The Conversation,  because right after watching the scene you mention above I said to myself;   Gene should have done what he did in The Conversation;   LISTENED to the conversation!    

[slaytonf]

. Better than watching

paint dry.

 

But more predictable.  With paint, you don't know which patches will dry first, so there's some suspense.

[FredCDobbs]

This film was just too "'70s" for me. I kept falling asleep and I couldn't follow the plot.

 

DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) is a much better neo-noir with a very good plot and lots of good 1940s cars, props, clothes, and hairstyles. See the trailer on YouTube.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112857/

[mr6666]

thought it was excellent all-round: story, performances, direction

 

(BTW one of the points to the whole movie is Harry/Hackman IS NOT especially clever, as a man OR a detective)

[slaytonf]

thought it was excellent all-round: story, performances, direction

 

(BTW one of the points to the whole movie is Harry/Hackman IS NOT especially clever, as a man OR a detective)

 

I don't mind a gumshoe without a clue, after all, Philip Marlowe stumbled his way through some of the best mysteries.  But what I don't like is the moviemakers treating the audience as if they were as dense.

[darkblue]

Thank you, TCM, for giving us a chance to see 'Night Moves'.

 

Now, could you please see about the possibility of showing 'Alex & the Gypsy' (1976)?

 

It stars Jack Lemmon. For a change he plays a character that's cynical, sardonic, tough, street-wise - actually sexy (if you can imagine that) - as opposed to the long-suffering dweeb he'd specialized in for most of his career up to the 70's.

 

'Alex & the Gypsy" has virtually disappeared from the airwaves. I managed to catch most of it once around 1980 and loved what I saw. It was a flop in its day but I bet it would be more appreciated now.

 

In any case, seeing Lemmon play against type - in a role that is unique for him of all his roles - is something worth seeing.

[speedracer5]

Thank you, TCM, for giving us a chance to see 'Night Moves'.

 

Now, could you please see about the possibility of showing 'Alex & the Gypsy' (1976)?

 

It stars Jack Lemmon. For a change he plays a character that's cynical, sardonic, tough, street-wise - actually sexy (if you can imagine that) - as opposed to the long-suffering dweeb he'd specialized in for most of his career up to the 70's.

 

'Alex & the Gypsy" has virtually disappeared from the airwaves. I managed to catch most of it once around 1980 and loved what I saw. It was a flop in its day but I bet it would be more appreciated now.

 

In any case, seeing Lemmon play against type - in a role that is unique for him of all his roles - is something worth seeing.

 

...Working on our night moves... Tryin' to make some front page drive-in news...  (That's what I thought of when I saw this thread)

 

I'm not sure if I'm sorry our not that I missed this film.  The synopsis sounds interesting, but it looks like this movie got lukewarm reviews.  I'll have to look out for it next time.

 

Alex & The Gypsy sounds very interesting.  I'm a fan of Lemmon and this sounds like a film that I would enjoy watching.

 

It looks like this film is available as a Print on Demand option through Fox Cinema Archives.  I'd rather see it first though, before spending money on it.

[cigarjoe]

...Working on our night moves... Tryin' to make some front page drive-in news...  (That's what I thought of when I saw this thread)

 

I'm not sure if I'm sorry our not that I missed this film.  The synopsis sounds interesting, but it looks like this movie got lukewarm reviews.  I'll have to look out for it next time.

 

 

Never trust reviews alone some films are either not appreciated or lost in the prevalent Zeitgiest of the time. Here is another review from IMDb that may be helpful.

 

 

Take a swing at me Harry the way Sam Spade would.

Author: Spikeopath from United Kingdom

1 July 2013

Night Moves is directed by Arthur Penn and written by Alan Sharp. It stars Gene Hackman, Jennifer Warren, Susan Clark, James Woods, Melanie Griffith, Edward Binns, Harris Yulin, Kenneth Mars and Janet Ward. Music is by Michael Small and cinematography by Bruce Surtees.

 

Former footballer turned private detective in Los Angeles Harry Moseby (Hackman), gets hired by an ageing actress to track down her trust- funded daughter Delly Grastner (Griffith), who is known to be in Florida. With his own personal life shaken by his wife's infidelity, Harry dives into the Grasten case with determination. Unfortunately nothing is as it first seems and it's not long before Harry is mired in murky goings on...

 

It sounds kind of bleak. Or is it just the way you tell it?

 

The locale is often bright and sunny but that's about the only thing that is in this excellent neo-noir. Harking back, and doffing its cap towards, the noir detective films of the classic cycle, Night Moves is ripe with characters who are either dubious or damaged. Protagonist Harry Moseby is thrust into a melancholic world that he has no control over, but he doesn't know this fact. As the mystery at the core of the dense plot starts to unravel, there's a bleakness, a 1970s air of cynicism, that pervades the narrative. Culminating in a finale that's suitably dark and ambiguous.

 

Harry thinks if you call him Harry again he's gonna make you eat that cat!

 

Alan Sharp's (Ulzana's Raid) terrific screenplay is appropriately as sharp as a razor. Dialogue is often hardboiled or zinging with wit, and the conversations come with sadness or desperation. Be it chatter about a fateful chess move, sexual enlightenment or the pains of childhood and bad parenting, Sharp's writing provides fascinating characters operating in a tense thriller environment.

 

Listen Delly, I know it doesn't make much sense when you're sixteen. Don't worry. When you get to be forty, it isn't any better.

 

Arthur Penn brilliantly threads it all together, as he hones a great performance out of Hackman and notable turns from the support players, he smoothly blends action with pulsing unease. There's nudity on show, but in Penn's hands it is never used for gratuitous purpose, it represents dangerous fantasies or dented psyches. Small's jazzy score is a fine tonal accompaniment, and Surtees' Technicolor photography provides deft mood enhancements for the interior and exterior sequences.

 

Biting and bitter, Night Moves is essential neo-noir. 9/10

[primosprimos]

. . . .Delly's phone message.  I would have turned off when they found the flesh-eating-fish-in-the-downed-plane scene.  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  I mean, don't you know who's in the plane?  You mean to tell me in all the vasty water in the Gulf or Caribbean, they just happen to come across the little single prop wreck by chance?  Sorry, no.  I think the reason Paula got disenchanted with Harry is he didn't pick up on it--after all, she piloted the boat.  You can credit my perseverance to Gene Hackman, the only thing worthwhile in this movie.  This is the only instance I can recall where somebody made something out of nothing through sheer ability.  Unfortunately I wasn't enough to get me by the scene he accidentally turns on the message machine, and it just happens to have a message from Delly, and she's just about to say something about the plane--when Ellen walks in, and provides the excuse for him not listening to the rest of it.  Oh, please. . . .

 

But, hey, isn't that Gene Hackman the gol-darndest actor?  I'm gonna go and watch The Conversation again.  He should be a star of the month.

 

BOY, did that stink.

[JamesJazGuitar]

Never trust reviews alone some films are either not appreciated or lost in the prevalent Zeitgiest of the time. Here is another review from IMDb that may be helpful.

 

 

Take a swing at me Harry the way Sam Spade would.

Author: Spikeopath from United Kingdom

1 July 2013

Night Moves is directed by Arthur Penn and written by Alan Sharp. It stars Gene Hackman, Jennifer Warren, Susan Clark, James Woods, Melanie Griffith, Edward Binns, Harris Yulin, Kenneth Mars and Janet Ward. Music is by Michael Small and cinematography by Bruce Surtees.

 

Former footballer turned private detective in Los Angeles Harry Moseby (Hackman), gets hired by an ageing actress to track down her trust- funded daughter Delly Grastner (Griffith), who is known to be in Florida. With his own personal life shaken by his wife's infidelity, Harry dives into the Grasten case with determination. Unfortunately nothing is as it first seems and it's not long before Harry is mired in murky goings on...

 

It sounds kind of bleak. Or is it just the way you tell it?

 

The locale is often bright and sunny but that's about the only thing that is in this excellent neo-noir. Harking back, and doffing its cap towards, the noir detective films of the classic cycle, Night Moves is ripe with characters who are either dubious or damaged. Protagonist Harry Moseby is thrust into a melancholic world that he has no control over, but he doesn't know this fact. As the mystery at the core of the dense plot starts to unravel, there's a bleakness, a 1970s air of cynicism, that pervades the narrative. Culminating in a finale that's suitably dark and ambiguous.

 

Harry thinks if you call him Harry again he's gonna make you eat that cat!

 

Alan Sharp's (Ulzana's Raid) terrific screenplay is appropriately as sharp as a razor. Dialogue is often hardboiled or zinging with wit, and the conversations come with sadness or desperation. Be it chatter about a fateful chess move, sexual enlightenment or the pains of childhood and bad parenting, Sharp's writing provides fascinating characters operating in a tense thriller environment.

 

Listen Delly, I know it doesn't make much sense when you're sixteen. Don't worry. When you get to be forty, it isn't any better.

 

Arthur Penn brilliantly threads it all together, as he hones a great performance out of Hackman and notable turns from the support players, he smoothly blends action with pulsing unease. There's nudity on show, but in Penn's hands it is never used for gratuitous purpose, it represents dangerous fantasies or dented psyches. Small's jazzy score is a fine tonal accompaniment, and Surtees' Technicolor photography provides deft mood enhancements for the interior and exterior sequences.

 

Biting and bitter, Night Moves is essential neo-noir. 9/10

 

I'm failing to see what makes Night Moves a neo-noir.   Just having a P.I. doesn't make a movie a noir.    But I guess I don't know a neo-noir when I see one!  

[darkblue]

I'm failing to see what makes Night Moves a neo-noir.   Just having a P.I. doesn't make a movie a noir.    But I guess I don't know a neo-noir when I see one!  

 

I presume a neo-noir is a new (post-50's) noir-ish movie.

 

For that, I'd recommend 'Johnny Handsome' (1989) as a prime example of one.

[Hibi]

Glad I finally got to see this film, which I've wanted to see for a long time. I thought it was ok. The ending left a lot of unanswered questions concerning the people involved. And I found the stunt scene result very hard to swallow as to the plot. The film needed someone at the end explaining what happened (but that would've made the plot holes more apparent and unresolved. LOL.)

[Hibi]

This film was just too "'70s" for me. I kept falling asleep and I couldn't follow the plot.

 

DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) is a much better neo-noir with a very good plot and lots of good 1940s cars, props, clothes, and hairstyles. See the trailer on YouTube.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112857/

 

 

Yes, it was very 70s. For a noir it was too sunny and daylight for me............

[kingrat]

SPOILERS AHEAD:

 

I did not see Night Moves this time around, but recall it as a fairly well-made film--it's fun to see James Woods and Melanie Griffith so young--with a typical 1970s ending.

 

Which, alas, is not a compliment.

 

Many 1970s filmmakers reacted against the well-made films that Hollywood had usually produced.  This was understandable, but it left the problem of how to resolve their own films. If the neatly wrapped-up ending was felt to be false, what could be put in its place?

 

One solution was to make the ending quick and ambiguous, or simply unclear. Night Moves seems to fall in this category, if I remember correctly. Are we supposed to assume that Hackman and most of the others end up dead? This would be the ultimate 1970s take on the P.I. film, with the detective ending up dead. The unsatisfying ending probably also has something to do with the film's lack of commercial success.

[Hibi]

SPOILERS AHEAD:

 

I did not see Night Moves this time around, but recall it as a fairly well-made film--it's fun to see James Woods and Melanie Griffith so young--with a typical 1970s ending.

 

Which, alas, is not a compliment.

 

Many 1970s filmmakers reacted against the well-made films that Hollywood had usually produced.  This was understandable, but it left the problem of how to resolve their own films. If the neatly wrapped-up ending was felt to be false, what could be put in its place?

 

One solution was to make the ending quick and ambiguous, or simply unclear. Night Moves seems to fall in this category, if I remember correctly. Are we supposed to assume that Hackman and most of the others end up dead? This would be the ultimate 1970s take on the P.I. film, with the detective ending up dead. The unsatisfying ending probably also has something to do with the film's lack of commercial success.

 

 

SPOILERS.

 

It wasnt so much the Hackman will he or wont he make it ending, that made it unsatisfying to me, it was all the other loose ends and character motivations left up in the air. Was James Woods innocent or not? The plane crash an accident or not? How in the world could they come by it by accident? The Edward Binns character was the most puzzling. And getting a teenager involved in a dangerous movie stunt really unbelievable. If they wanted to kill her, why not do it some easier way?  And why involve himself in it or even be sure she'd be killed?

[cigarjoe]

SPOILERS AHEAD:

 

I did not see Night Moves this time around, but recall it as a fairly well-made film--it's fun to see James Woods and Melanie Griffith so young--with a typical 1970s ending.

 

Which, alas, is not a compliment.

 

Many 1970s filmmakers reacted against the well-made films that Hollywood had usually produced.  This was understandable, but it left the problem of how to resolve their own films. If the neatly wrapped-up ending was felt to be false, what could be put in its place?

 

One solution was to make the ending quick and ambiguous, or simply unclear. Night Moves seems to fall in this category, if I remember correctly. Are we supposed to assume that Hackman and most of the others end up dead? This would be the ultimate 1970s take on the P.I. film, with the detective ending up dead. The unsatisfying ending probably also has something to do with the film's lack of commercial success.

It's why folks still talk about it. If they all die its clearly Noir in story-line. But each can speculate for themselves something different from their own perspectives. 

[Mr. Gorman]

This is the 3rd time I've seen 'NIGHT MOVES'.  I appreciated it more upon my 2nd viewing and I enjoyed watching it on TCM the other night for the 3rd time.  It definitely doesn't spell everything out for the viewer; it's left up to us to decide and/or think about the stuff going on that we don't see (like what did James Woods do to irritate John Crawford or Jennifer Warren so he ended up dead in the water and other various plot points).      

[Hibi]

For me, its just lazy writing. I dont need everything tied up with a bow at the end, but the storyline should make some sense and a lot of it doesnt (at least what shows up on the screen, hard to know what was edited out)..............

[cigarjoe]

For me, its just lazy writing. I dont need everything tied up with a bow at the end, but the storyline should make some sense and a lot of it doesnt (at least what shows up on the screen, hard to know what was edited out)..............

In actuality, your pulp hard boiled detective stories hardly ever spelled things out and they hardly ever were about what they start out being about. They aren't Agatha Christie, Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot or Sherlock Homes where you got a murder with various clues that progresses to a finnish.

 

The noir hard boiled detective usually took the situation presented to him and shook it all up to see what falls out. 

[Hibi]

In actuality, your pulp hard boiled detective stories hardly ever spelled things out and they hardly ever were about what they start out being about. They aren't Agatha Christie, Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot or Sherlock Homes where you got a murder with various clues that progresses to a finnish.

 

The noir hard boiled detective usually took the situation presented to him and shook it all up to see what falls out. 

 

 

Well, what fell out (at least on screen) wasnt satisfying to me. And apparently to others as the film tanked. I wouldnt say it was awful, but not something I'd want to watch again.........

[slaytonf]

I presume a neo-noir is a new (post-50's) noir-ish movie.

 

For that, I'd recommend 'Johnny Handsome' (1989) as a prime example of one.

 

Not disputing the validity of the term, or concept of 'neo-noir,' I have to say that the movies of that sort made after the era of noirs (all of which are in b/w), don't generally appeal to me.  They are too much consciously 'in the style of.'  This is especially true for Philip Marlowe resurrections.  There are some successful ones, Point Blank being one of my favorites.  The French also did a good job at times.  Jean-Pierre Melville concentrated on them, including Bob le Flambeur, Les Doulos, and Le Samourai.  The best, of course, by far, is The Wages of Fear.  We will also be seeing Purple Noon (a terrible English title for the original Plein Soleil, or broad daylight), with Alain Delon.  Can't say if it qualifies for noirish, but it certainly scrapes the depths of human depravity.  If you haven't seen it before, it's a lot of fun.