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My issue isn't your opinion.  I said you were allowed to like it.  I didn't take issue with your liking it.  You took issue with my not liking it.  You also chose to bash other shows to support it.  Shows that are, actually, musicals in the context of the art form of musicals, and, if I liked those shows, then your were bashing me.  I never did that to you, regarding your opinion.   My comment about it being a drama with music was, clearly, about the film version of CABARET.  I have performed in it, eight show per week, for approximately 6 months.  The show as originally written IS a musical, so people would very much be surprised to have someone say it wasn't.  I never said that.  The show also contains the element of the songs, as performed in the Kit Kat Klub, as commentary on what is happening, so that isn't unique to the film.  So, yes, by all means, you are more than entitled to you opinion, and it requires no defense, but it shouldn't have to be supported by belittling musicals and those who may like them.

 

Boy, talk about a failure to communicate!

1. I was VERY aware that your reference to Cabaret as being a "drama with music and NOT a musical" was referring to the film and NOT the Broadway musical version. My point re:the movie, West Side Story was that it is also close to your description - a drama with music - what I would call a musical. I doubt that many others would agree with you that Cabaret (the movie) is NOT a musical -but that doesn't really matter either - it's only more opinions. BTW, It must have been difficult and maybe even unpleasant to perform in a show for months that you said in a orevious post you didn't like when you saw it on the stage, because you didn't like the characters and if you don't like the characters, you feel you're wasting your time. (I'm curious, John. Where did you appear in Cabaret 8 times a week for 6 months?)

 

2. I certainly DID not take issue with your not liking it. (Do you really think I'm going to take issues with any poster who doesn't happen to like a movie I like? Absurd.) I CLEARLY took issue with and simply debated YOUR contention that the miovie is "nowhere NEAR great" (your argument with ME) BECAUSE,in your view, the musical numbers fail to advance/tell a story. I have repeated several times by specific example my reasons for feeling that the songs do indeed meet that "requirement" (of yours - not mine. Is, for example, "Love Me or Leave Me" NOT a musical? Or is it another of your dramas with music") I just think your definition is nitpicking.

 

3. I am not defending my liking the film - haven't "defensively" argued that - just said I thought it was great in the earlier post. So i wish you would stop saying how "defensive" I am. Is countering another's argument here "defensive". I guess when we disagree with anyone on the TCM board we should keep silent or else we're "so defensive" as to be called out for it.

 

4. "It shouldn't be supported by belittling musicals and those who may like them".

HUH??!! When did I belittle musicals or you for liking them? Which musicals did I "bash"? (Was my not enjoying McDonald-Eddy musicals a bash?)Please tell me -I'd like to know how you arrived at that accusation! I clearly said I liked (love!) West Side Story the musical you referenced and admired. I DID mention that a musical convention (characters suddenly breaking into song/dance) can seem silly UNLESS we "willinlgly suspend disbelief" which I do quite easily. There have been those who don't like WSS and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that requirement and mock "gang members singing and dancing". I just ignore that kind of silly criticism. I said WSS was groundbreaking (like the film version of Cabaret) but that Cabaret cleverly requires no suspension of disbelief during the musical numbers because they're performed in a club (and yet STILL manage to advance/comment on the nonmusical scenes). You yourself acknowledge here that the stage version's club numbers do, in fact, comment on what is happening, so you now seem selfcontradictory.

 

I quite agree with you. I am entitled to my opinion and you yours. You're not entitled, however, to put words in my mouth, distort my views expressed in my posts, and make false accusations about them. At least not without expecting a vigorous (and admittedly overlong response. Sorry, but I couldn't seem to do that more concisely. I think it's unfortunate that you chose an apparently angry (defensive)response, and ignored my previous closing friendly remarks re: our mutual admiration of Julie Andrews and regret that "She Loves Me" was not made into a film vehicle for her. I do look forward to next season's Broadway revival! :)

I'm hopefully done with Cabaret discussions. The film does not need anymore accolades from me - it has received plenty of acclaim on its own.

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Even Patty Duke thought it, and so did Desi.  He and Sean Astin have a very close relationship.  It was years later that a paternity test disclosed the father to be Michael Tell, who was married to Patty for 13 days, during one of her manic episodes.  Sean Astin enjoys a relationship with John Astin, Michael Tell, Desi Arnaz, Jr. and Michael Pearce, Patty's current husband.

 

I read online that Patty Duke brought the baby (Sean) to see Lucille Ball at one point for the two to bond, but Lucy would have none of it.

Lucy supposedly detested Patty Duke but she liked Liza Minnelli.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Isherwood's out loud remark at the screening of CABARET was surely not an expression of surprise that the scene was in the film, just a comment that he wanted to make sure was heard.

 

I don't know if Isherwood ever attended a stage production. 

 

In the interview from 1974 in the clip below Christopher Isherwood confirms that he never saw the original stage production of Cabaret. He says that friends advised him not to see it, telling him he would hate it.

He says he liked the movie Cabaret (with Michael York as the character based on Isherwood) because the screenwriter mostly threw out the book of the musical and restored the stories from Berlin Stories.

In the interview he also talks about what became of the woman who was the inspiration for Sally Bowles.

 

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In the interview from 1974 in the clip below Christopher Isherwood confirms that he never saw the original stage production of Cabaret. He says that friends advised him not to see it, telling him he would hate it.

He says he liked the movie Cabaret (with Michael York as the character based on Isherwood) because the screenwriter mostly threw out the book of the musical and restored the stories from Berlin Stories.

In the interview he also talks about what became of the woman who was the inspiration for Sally Bowles.

 

The interview with Isherwood was wonderful.

Thanks for posting.

 

He's quite soft-spoken but thoroughly engaging. 

His comment about Hitler stealing his hairstyle was hilarious.

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In the interview from 1974 in the clip below Christopher Isherwood confirms that he never saw the original stage production of Cabaret. He says that friends advised him not to see it, telling him he would hate it.

He says he liked the movie Cabaret (with Michael York as the character based on Isherwood) because the screenwriter mostly threw out the book of the musical and restored the stories from Berlin Stories.

In the interview he also talks about what became of the woman who was the inspiration for Sally Bowles.

 

Writers are notoriously good liars or maybe in this case, pathetically dependent.on the opinion's of friends to determine what one might like or not like. So the major difference in the stage version is the addition of the landlady's romance with the Jewish shopkeeper - THIS Isherwood's "friends" thought he would be so offended by that he never saw the musical version ( for which he, no doubt, happily collected royalty checks) ! The screenwriter (Jay Presson Allen) hardly "Mostly threw out the book of the musical and restored stories from Berlin Stories." Allen created the poor German student/wealthy Jesish woman romance. As the musical and revivals ran for years, I'd say if Isherwood never saw a production, he is really lacking something -curiosity if nothing else. Frankly, his precious Berlin Stories aren't THAT highly revered that adaptations are to be deemed sacriligious. i'm glad Isherwood's friends could get him to unclutch his pearls and drag the tremulous author to a cinema where he could enjoy seeing himself portrayed by Michael York.

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If he never saw the stage version (which, by the way, I don't believe for a second), how does he know that the director threw out its book and made a film film more based on the original stories?  He went through life basing his opinion of what "friends" told him?!  What a moron.

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If he never saw the stage version (which, by the way, I don't believe for a second), how does he know that the director threw out its book and made a film film more based on the original stories? 

 

The screenwriter for CABARET told Isherwood that they were going back to his Berlin Stories rather than using the book of the musical.

Isherwood mentions this in the interview that was posted. 

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The screenwriter for CABARET told Isherwood that they were going back to his Berlin Stories rather than using the book of the musical.

Isherwood mentions this in the interview that was posted. 

Yes, I know.  My point was how did he have any opinion of the stage show if he hadn't seen it?  It was also based on his Berlin Stories. 

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The screenwriter for CABARET told Isherwood that they were going back to his Berlin Stories rather than using the book of the musical.

Isherwood mentions this in the interview that was posted.

 

Since much of the original stage version of "Cabaret" is also based on "Berlin Stories" saying the screenplay was "going back to "Berlin Stories" seems misleading, and this is especially true since the screenplay also creates a subplot involving a secondary couple not in "Berlin Stories" The stage musical's director Hal Prince and the musical's book writer Joe Masteroff agreed that in addition to the English and American lead characters, the story needed native Berliners as well to show the impact of the politics of that time on Germans AND foreigners. Thus the stage musical's subplot involving the doomed romance between the landlady and her Jewish boyfriend. In the film the subplot involving the rich Jewish woman and her suitor (who turns out to be secretly Jewish) serves a similar purpose; both allowing a narrative that gives these characters's tragic plights an effective statement on the chilling rise of Nazism during the course of the piece. I hardly think either adaptation failed to do anything other than honor in intention and and expand effect, Isherwood's original work.

 

And I would also be skeptical, his denial notwithstanding, that Isherwood would miss the chance of seeing the big hit (and ACCLAIMED!) Broadway musical "Cabaret" based on his own writing. I hope "confirmed old batchelor" Isherwood and his partner for decades, Don Bachardy, enjoyed themselves andmade a festive night of it!

A toast to Berlin Stories, I Am a Camera and Cabaret - enduring works of art!

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Since much of the original stage version of "Cabaret" is also based on "Berlin Stories" saying the screenplay was "going back to "Berlin Stories" seems misleading, and this is especially true since the screenplay also creates a subplot involving a secondary couple not in "Berlin Stories" The stage musical's director Hal Prince and the musical's book writer Joe Masteroff agreed that in addition to the English and American lead characters, the story needed native Berliners as well to show the impact of the politics of that time on Germans AND foreigners. Thus the stage musical's subplot involving the doomed romance between the landlady and her Jewish boyfriend. In the film the subplot involving the rich Jewish woman and her suitor (who turns out to be secretly Jewish) serves a similar purpose; both allowing a narrative that gives these characters's tragic plights an effective statement on the chilling rise of Nazism during the course of the piece. I hardly think either adaptation failed to do anything other than honor in intention and and expand effect, Isherwood's original work. 

 

You are incorrect.

The subplot  about the gigolo wooing the Jewish heiress WAS in BERLIN STORIES.

It was the one titled "The Landauers."

Or maybe the gigolo was added by Van Druten for I AM A CAMERA.

 

 

The subplot about the German landlady and her romance with the Jewish grocer was invented for the stage play CABARET.

This story did not come from Isherwood's work.     

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You are incorrect.

The subplot  about the gigolo wooing the Jewish heiress WAS in BERLIN STORIES.

It was the one titled "The Landauers."

Or maybe the gigolo was added by Van Druten for I AM A CAMERA

The subplot about the German landlady and her romance with the Jewish grocer was invented for the stage play CABARET.

This story did not come from Isherwood's work.

 

 

The Landauers has no relation to the subplots in either I Am a Camera or Cabaret. Isherwood approved Van Druton's free adaptation of his Berlin Stories into the plotted Am a Camera though no such plot was in his stories. He was satisfied with the stage play, I Am a Camera. He has been quoted as being mostly unhappy with the stage musical of Cabaret because Sally and Cliff were in a romanic relationship which his original homosexual character ( based on himself) was decidedly not. The film was more accurate in that the character is now at least bisexual. Perhaps the screenplay's " going back to the Berlin Stories" only meant making the Michael York character less exclusively heterosexual.
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The Landauers has no relation to the subplots in either I Am a Camera or Cabaret. Isherwood approved Van Druton's free adaptation of his Berlin Stories into the plotted Am a Camera though no such plot was in his stories. He was satisfied with the stage play, I Am a Camera. He has been quoted as being mostly unhappy with the stage musical of Cabaret because Sally and Cliff were in a romanic relationship which his original homosexual character ( based on himself) was decidedly not. The film was more accurate in that the character is now at least bisexual. Perhaps the screenplay's " going back to the Berlin Stories" only meant making the Michael York character less exclusively heterosexual.

 

In "The Landauers" story Natalia Landauer beomes jealous over Christopher's friendship with Sally Bowles. 

Isherwood comments something along the lines that a "heart to heart" talk with Natalia  would proabbly shock her more than her thinking he and Sally were lovers. 

This was likely a veiled reference to Isherwood's homosexuality.

 

One of the BERLIN STORIES is about a gay couple, Otto and Peter, although again nothing is explicity spelled out.

 

Clearly Isherwood liked that the character inspired by him was gay in the movie CABARET.

Even in his own BERLIN STORIES he could not be explicit about his own homosexuality.

He felt more freedom in his later writings.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Just a reminder that Cabaret is airing tonight (February 9) at 8:00 PM Eastern as part of TCM's 31 Days of Oscar.

 

The movie won 8 Academy Awards:

 

Best Director (Bob Fosse)

Best Actress in a Leading Role (Liza Minnelli)

Best Actor in a Supporting Role (Joel Grey)

Best Cinematography (Geoffrey Unsworth)

Best Film Editing (David Bretherton)

Best Original Song Score or Adaptation Score (Ralph Burns)

Best Art Direction (Rolf Zehetbauer, Hans Jürgen Kiebach and Herbert Strabel)

Best Sound (Robert Knudson and David Hildyard)

 

Here's a clip of Bob Fosse winning for Best Director: 

 

 

 

And here's a clip of Liza Minnelli winning for Best Actress in a Leading Role:

 

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"Cabaret" is a movie that I have a funny story to tell about. Well, at least I think it it funny, you can be the judge.

 

It was being shown at a revival in a theatre in my town. I had a very nice next door neighbor, who was 95 years old and was really a very fun individual who I had known almost my whole life. She was thinking of going to see it with her hubby who was 96 years old and had been her high school teacher when she lived on a farm.

 

A new neighbor had moved in recently and was sitting on the front porch and listening to this conversation. Did I mention that she was quite prissy and about 69 years old and had been trying to take over the neighborhood from the moment her furniture was delivered.

 

When she heard Mrs. S. saying that she was going to see the film "Cabaret", buttinsky new neighbor blurts out "Why, dear Mrs. S. I think you need to rethink that since you don't realize that this film has nude scenes and you know that you would not want to see that."

 

Mrs. S, looks her straight in the eye and says "If they don't mind doing it, I don't mind watching it!"

 

Goes to show that open-mindedness does not have an age.

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Here's a great interview with Liza Minnelli by Alan Cumming where she discusses, among other things, how her father Vincente Minnelli helped her with finding the right look for Sally Bowles in Cabaret

 

 

 

Liza Minnelli's comment that someone else's body was used in one of the CABARET posters was interesting.

I'm not sure why her own body was not used.

 

Alan Cumming used the Italian pronunciation of Vincente. 

I've always heard Liza pronounce her father's name as "Vincent."

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Joel Grey 83 has just released his biography MASTER OF CEREMONIES 2016. In a question and answer in the new Entertainment Weekly magazine, Joes says that the director Bob Fosse was talking about Anthony Newley and Ruth Gordon for the part. (I do not understand his reasoning for Ruth Gordon).Joel was heartbroken, this was his role that he invented. A few weeks before filming, Bob walked into a meeting  and said "it`s Joel Grey or me". The producer Marty Baum said " Then it`s Joel Grey."

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"Joel Grey won an Oscar for his performance as the creepy Emcee in the 1972 movie version of “Cabaret.” But he did so in spite of — not because of — director Bob Fosse.

In fact, as Grey writes in his absorbing new memoir “Master of Ceremonies” (Flatiron Books), Fosse didn’t want him in the movie at all. His first choice to play the role was . . . Ruth Gordon..."

 

“Fosse was a martinet, and the dancers loved him, because he was so good. But I’m a different kind of actor. I like to try new things, keep it fresh. And we weren’t supposed to be neat, perfect performers. We were supposed to be doing second-rate nightclub stuff. We were supposed to be crappy.”

 

http://nypost.com/2016/02/11/joel-grey-and-bob-fosse-were-at-each-others-throats-during-cabaret/

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"Joel Grey won an Oscar for his performance as the creepy Emcee in the 1972 movie version of “Cabaret.” But he did so in spite of — not because of — director Bob Fosse.

In fact, as Grey writes in his absorbing new memoir “Master of Ceremonies” (Flatiron Books), Fosse didn’t want him in the movie at all. His first choice to play the role was . . . Ruth Gordon..."

 

“Fosse was a martinet, and the dancers loved him, because he was so good. But I’m a different kind of actor. I like to try new things, keep it fresh. And we weren’t supposed to be neat, perfect performers. We were supposed to be doing second-rate nightclub stuff. We were supposed to be crappy.”

 

http://nypost.com/2016/02/11/joel-grey-and-bob-fosse-were-at-each-others-throats-during-cabaret/

Some geniuses are fools.

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  • 4 months later...

Cabaret airs tonight (June 30) on TCM as part this month's Stage To Screen spotlight.

 

The only cast member from the original Broadway production to appear in Bob Fosse's movie was Joel Grey, who reprised his role as the M.C.

Fosse originally did not want anyone who'd appeared in the play to be his movie since he wanted to bring his own interpretation to the screen without any preconceived notions from the actors.

However, the movie's producers wanted Joel Grey and told Fosse that if it came down to a choice between him and Joel Grey, they would chose Joel Grey.  

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