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23 hours ago, EricJ said:

Which is also on film, not that anyone paid attention at the time:

 

And the, ahem, first of TWO examples of plagiaristic filmmakers stealing obscure foreign material and telling the press "No, really, it's Shakespeare!"  😛

The film wasn't very good and flopped. Rigg is the only good thing in it. They changed the location to Vienna and cut some of the best songs.

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4 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Bergman did a remake of a Joel McCrea film?

No, Smiles was adapted into a Broadway musical, A Little Night Music by Stephen Sondheim in the early 70s. Send in the Clowns became a top 40 hit. 

Where did Joel McCrea come into all this???

 

Sorry, now that I looked back at my post, I quoted the wrong post. I was talking about Smiles of a Summer Night.

 

 

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Chasers.

 

 

  Crude but (also) Lovely.

Touching but Profane.

  Immature and (still) crude but Sexy and Pretty.

Irreverent but Thoughtful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might Not be Everyones tsste.. ..but this was a rather quite Enjoyable Edgy, Irreverent, Crude, Rude, Thoughtful, Sexy Film.

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12 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Plagiarism is much more literal,  copying almost exactly another, earlier work.  

Or ATTEMPT to copy like William Castle's 1965 I SAW WHAT YOU DID shower murder scene:

s-l300.jpg

Nice speedos there killer.

Down to the Hershey syrup for blood:

I-Saw-What-You-Did-11.png

Or would you say that's NOT direct plagiarism because in this the killer is naked while the victim is fully clothed?

There is no "homage" or "influence" here, only lazy copying.

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The Wrong Man (1956) Probably my least favorite Hitchcock film that I've seen to date.  Nothing remarkable about the story.  Even for his TV show this would've been weak IMO.  Shame that the film of his starring Henry Fonda is so weak (unless there's another one he's in that don't know about).

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2 hours ago, Shank Asu said:

The Wrong Man (1956) Probably my least favorite Hitchcock film that I've seen to date.  Nothing remarkable about the story.  Even for his TV show this would've been weak IMO.  Shame that the film of his starring Henry Fonda is so weak (unless there's another one he's in that don't know about).

The breakdown of the wife is well played by Vera Miles but other than that there isn't really a lot going on in The Wrong Man.   

Henry Fonda looks and acts more like an Insurance salesman than a jazz musician \ bass player.    I just can't see Fonda saying "can you dig it, man".  

 

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24 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Henry Fonda looks and acts more like an Insurance salesman than a jazz musician \ bass player.    I just can't see Fonda saying "can you dig it, man".

True, although there have been some pretty strait-laced/nerdy-looking jazz musicians.  Benny Goodman, Dave Brubeck, and Bill Evans (before he grew a beard) come to mind.  🙂

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50 minutes ago, Fausterlitz said:

True, although there have been some pretty strait-laced/nerdy-looking jazz musicians.  Benny Goodman, Dave Brubeck, and Bill Evans (before he grew a beard) come to mind.  🙂

Yes,  Goodman and Brubeck were strait-laced and nerdy looking;  e.g.  Goodman didn't even like any of his musicians to smoke pot (some did but keep it on the very low down).    Bill Evans looked nerdy in his early days but he was a heroine addict,  as I'm sure you know.  

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I've always liked The Wrong Man.  I've found the story pretty suspenseful purely from the standpoint that what happens to Henry Fonda could (and did!) happen to anyone.  Think of how many people have been imprisoned and had their lives ruined based on a false identification and/or circumstantial evidence.  Henry Fonda didn't commit the crime, we know he didn't commit the crime, he knows he didn't commit the crime, yet he's put in jail and forced to go through this traumatizing experience based on the false identification by some traumatized bank employees.

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23 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Thanks for the write-up,  Speedy.  Even though it sounds as though Espionage Agent isn't a wonderful movie,  I'm always up for seeing anything with Joel McCrea in it.   And certainly Foreign Correspondent is a really entertaining film.  I agree, George Sanders always makes things more interesting,  and I do kind of like Laraine Day  (remember her in The Locket ?)

If you're a Joel McCrea fan,  you've probably already seen Sullivan's Travels.  It's one of my favourite Joel McCrea movies,  and in fact,  one of my favourite movies, period.  I love its "message",  which is that comedy is important,  just as important and in some ways more so than serious drama. Sullivan's Travels has plenty of both - comedy and drama.  It's very entertaining,  and Joel's so good in it . And Veronica Lake is kind of fun, too.

I love The Locket ! That's such a great film.  I love the non-linear narrative and I thought that Laraine Day was fantastic in that film.  I also liked her in Mr. Lucky with Cary Grant.   I actually like Laraine Day, she reminds me of Irene Dunne. She was also interesting in The Woman on Pier 13 even if that wasn't the greatest film noir I'd ever seen.  With my comparison of Day to Brenda Marshall, I was trying to think of an actress who was attractive and seemed all-around fine, but there was nothing remarkable about her--nothing to set her aside from her peers who may have achieved more stardom.  By far, I prefer Laraine Day over Brenda Marshall.   Marshall just doesn't have a strong onscreen persona.  She can barely hold her own against Flynn in The Sea Hawk and Footsteps in the Dark, e.g.  

I love Joel McCrea.  He's fantastic in Sullivan's Travels and Foreign Correspondent.  I also love him in The Palm Beach Story and The More the Merrier.  I love the dry sarcasm that McCrea brings to his roles, he's handsome (though I wouldn't call him "hot" like my man Flynn) and has an approachable quality about him.   He deserves to be more well known.  I also thought McCrea was interesting in These Three and as the original Dr. Kildare in Internes Can't Take Money

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22 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

That's ridiculous. It's not plagiarism.  Goodness,  if every time a filmmaker made a movie that was influenced by another work  (either another film or a book  or a play or whatever it may be),  the movie world would be littered with plagiarism.  Plagiaristic works.

I don't recall whether Woody actually SAID "It's Hermes & Lysander!"--besides his use of Mendelssohn for the movie score--but just about every darn review tried to compare it point to point with that other Midsummer.  I can't remember seeing even one mention of Bergman in the reviews.

So, lack of motive would probably distinguish the "plagiarism" charge from Disney's cartoon version of Shakespeare that didn't resemble Japanese anime.

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The breakdown of the wife is well played by Vera Miles but other than that there isn't really a lot going on in The Wrong Man.   

Henry Fonda looks and acts more like an Insurance salesman than a jazz musician \ bass player.    I just can't see Fonda saying "can you dig it, man".  

 

 Like, I know what you mean. (Said to the "tune" of Shaggy)

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1 hour ago, Fausterlitz said:

Re: "True, although there have been some pretty strait-laced/nerdy-looking jazz musicians.  Benny Goodman, Dave Brubeck, and Bill Evans (before he grew a beard) come to mind.  🙂"

 Though he dressed conservatively and looked nerdy with his thick-lensed glasses, Joe Morello laid down the odd 5/4 signature and solo drummed the Dave Brubeck Quartet's milestone piece, "Take Five":     

 

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16 minutes ago, NoShear said:

 Though he dressed conservatively and looked nerdy with his thick-lensed glasses, Joe Morello laid down the odd 5/4 signature and solo drummed the Dave Brubeck Quartet's milestone piece, "Take Five":     

 

 No sticks? No problem:     

 

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I've always liked The Wrong Man.  I've found the story pretty suspenseful purely from the standpoint that what happens to Henry Fonda could (and did!) happen to anyone.  Think of how many people have been imprisoned and had their lives ruined based on a false identification and/or circumstantial evidence.  Henry Fonda didn't commit the crime, we know he didn't commit the crime, he knows he didn't commit the crime, yet he's put in jail and forced to go through this traumatizing experience based on the false identification by some traumatized bank employees.

I guess that's why i didn't care for it- it's a story that often repeats in everyday life.  they clearly used the true story fact as the hook for the film- but given it's Hitchcock i expected some twist.  i almost was waiting for it to be revealed that Fonda's character did actually commit the crimes and his wife was slowly realizing- although that would then be the plot similar to Shadow of a Doubt.

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27 minutes ago, Shank Asu said:

I guess that's why i didn't care for it- it's a story that often repeats in everyday life.  they clearly used the true story fact as the hook for the film- but given it's Hitchcock i expected some twist.  i almost was waiting for it to be revealed that Fonda's character did actually commit the crimes and his wife was slowly realizing- although that would then be the plot similar to Shadow of a Doubt.

He went through that period where the story is simply an ordinary person caught in unusual circumstances, as in NBNW (even the background music at the beginning tells us It's a Most Unusual Day),  The Man Who Knew Too Much, and this film.  Each one progressively got more elaborate, but the basic story is someone's life veering off in an unexpected direction.

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2 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I've always liked The Wrong Man.  I've found the story pretty suspenseful purely from the standpoint that what happens to Henry Fonda could (and did!) happen to anyone.  Think of how many people have been imprisoned and had their lives ruined based on a false identification and/or circumstantial evidence.  Henry Fonda didn't commit the crime, we know he didn't commit the crime, he knows he didn't commit the crime, yet he's put in jail and forced to go through this traumatizing experience based on the false identification by some traumatized bank employees.

I agree that the basic plot is interesting but,  for me,  there just isn't enough there for an entire movie.    More like a 45 minute T.V.  show (one hour less commercials),  than an 105 minute film.

 

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In The Wrong Man, I find the continual focus on Henry Fonda's eyes to be a particularly poignant and compelling part of the film.  These are the eyes of an innocent man and every time they're shown, the audience can see the fear in his eyes.  

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I was surprised when, a week or so ago, I mentioned that I had been watching episodes of the sitcom MAUDE on youtube and a few of you mentioned you were not fans of the show.

Well, I just saw in the news that there has been a huge drop of NORMAN LEAR shows on amazon prime and something called imdb.tv, yes, it is affiliated with the film search site.all seven seasons of MAUDE are on imdb tv, which is free and i downloaded it.

as such, I was able to see two episodes I read about and have been unable to locate, the infamous first part of the MAUDE'S DILEMMA storyline where MAUDE finds herself pregnant and decides whether or not to have an abortion [for some reason, contacting the GUINNESS WORLD RECORD PEOPLE doesn't occur to anyone.] and also a HILARIOUS episode  that details the ludicrous drug laws of the 1970s wherein a local kid faces three years in prison for possessing weed and MAUDE and the other LIBERAL HAUSFRAUS OF TUCKAHOE band together to buy a bag and have themselves arrested out of protest.

while i do enjoy the show, i can understand why some of you may not. for some odd reason, EVERY EPISODE has at least one joke THAT CLUNKS, like does NOT LAND even with the audience, and for some reason they leave it in. but the strengths of ALL the actors is undeniable, I must say I have come away most impressed with CONRAD BAIN (aka MR DRUMMOND) who pulls off a difficult character and actually makes him quite likeable, and human.

See the source image

i will say I am quite taken aback by how many storylines, and even the occasional punchline, were later re-used on THE GOLDEN GIRLS!

MAUDE also drinks a lot while pregnant.

it's stunning to also hear things like IUDS and RITALIN being referenced even back then.

 

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22 hours ago, EricJ said:

I don't recall whether Woody actually SAID "It's Hermes & Lysander!"--besides his use of Mendelssohn for the movie score--but just about every darn review tried to compare it point to point with that other Midsummer.  I can't remember seeing even one mention of Bergman in the reviews.

So, lack of motive would probably distinguish the "plagiarism" charge from Disney's cartoon version of Shakespeare that didn't resemble Japanese anime.

I've seen Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy many times,  and cannot recall anyone saying  "It's Hermes and Lysander".  But even if they did, so what?  It would just be a direct allusion to the fact that the film is indeed based on the Shakespeare comedy,   a wink to the audience.  Nothing wrong with that.

Not sure if you're critical of Allen's use of the music from Mendelssohn's  "Midsummer Night's Dream"  (so beautiful and so perfect for that play),  or if you're just saying,  hey, Woody Allen was making all these direct references to the Shakespeare comedy.  If you're saying that,  I repeat,  so what? nothing wrong with that,  in fact,  it's a completely appropriate choice of music for the film.  (He also uses some other Mendelssohn music, such as  part of his Scottish Symphony.)   But maybe you're not saying this was a bad thing,  you're just pointing it out.

Of course there's no direct mention of Smiles of a Summer Night.  There doesn't have to be.  Anyone who's seen the Bergman film will recognize allusions to it throughout.  Again,  this is just paying homage to another earlier director  (whom Woody Allen revered), and having fun with it.

I have never seen or even heard of a Disney cartoon version  of Midsummer Night's Dream. I don't think I'd be interested in seeing it.

Not to belabour the point,  but Shakespeare himself "plagiarized",  according to your idea of what that word means.  Almost everything he wrote was based on an earlier play or poem or tale or historical event  with similar or even the same characters and story.  Shakespeare would take these earlier stories and turn them into gold.  

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On 7/14/2021 at 10:27 PM, Aritosthenes said:

Chasers.

 

 

  Crude but (also) Lovely.

Touching but Profane.

  Immature and (still) crude but Sexy and Pretty.

Irreverent but Thoughtful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might Not be Everyones tsste.. ..but this was a rather quite Enjoyable Edgy, Irreverent, Crude, Rude, Thoughtful, Sexy Film.

Ha- I remember watching this film as a teenager and liked it for obvious reasons.  Later I discovered it was a knock-off of The Last Detail with a sexy woman thrown in.

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On 7/15/2021 at 7:11 AM, TikiSoo said:

Or ATTEMPT to copy like William Castle's 1965 I SAW WHAT YOU DID shower murder scene:

s-l300.jpg

Nice speedos there killer.

Down to the Hershey syrup for blood:

I-Saw-What-You-Did-11.png

Or would you say that's NOT direct plagiarism because in this the killer is naked while the victim is fully clothed?

There is no "homage" or "influence" here, only lazy copying.

TikiSoo,  although I'm a William Castle fan  (sort of),  I haven't seen I Saw What You Did, so can't really comment about it.

However,  William Castle, as I figure you probably know,  was quite shameless in his movie-making.  He was shamelessly silly and over-the-top in a lot of his movies,  and also in the gimmicks and hype he'd sometimes stoop to in order to garner attention to his work.  So I have little doubt that the film  you're talking about was a blatant copying of the famous shower scene in Psycho.  

So yeah,  William Castle was probably guilty of plagiarizing bits of the Hitchcock movie,  along with other bits from other better, more famous films in  many of his works.  Wouldn't surprise me at all.  I can only say in the man's defence that he probably made no pretense that he was doing anything other than copying Psycho.  He'd probably be the first to grin that silly grin of his and say,  "Sure,  I plagiarize from other people's movies. Sometimes. But I ain't no Hitchcock, and I'm not claiming I am.  I'm just having some goofy fun.  So sue me."    ( Did Hitchcock or anyone else try to do so? )

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Been a slow movie week so far for me so I got two in last night.

A Rainy Day in New York (2020) I like most things that Allen does, and while I overall like this film (probably most for the jazz soundtrack) the actual storyline feels a bit in pieces.  Think the entire sub-plot with Selena Gomez's character was just clutter, otherwise the other elements were pretty good.  Otherwise the only other thing I didn't like was Timothée Chalamet whose performance I thought was rather weak.  Don't know what it is about him (maybe his smug face or stupid spelling of his name) but he just annoys the hell out of me.  And I didn't like how he did this film and immediately turned on Allen while the leaked info was that he privately supported Allen but thought he had a better chance of winning an Oscar for Call Me By Your Name if he spoke out against him.

Mississippi Burning (1988) Wow.  Pretty ugly film but so good.  Loved the cast including all the bit parts from people I recognized.  Good to see Brad Dourif act in anything and I'm surprised he hasn't been in more films really based on the few amazing performances I've seen.

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