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General Discussion board concerns


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Recently, in the LGBT sub-forum a few posters and I were having a discussion about the Code of Conduct. 

 

Constructively speaking, there are a few things that do not seem to be addressed in the C of C that may be leading to confusion and problems, especially when it comes to posting general discussions here on this forum.

 

It might help if some of the issues could be resolved. Is there a friendly and progressive way to do such a thing...?

 

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I am one of the posters who almost never goes looking through any of the subforums either, let alone that one. (not sure why you mentioned it here though, but that caused me to go there just to see what you were talking about).  If it were up to me though (and it's not - you know what they say about opinions), here is what I would say.

 

I would try to keep time-sensitive material on the GD forum.  No problems there, it seems to be the defacto dumping grounds already.

 

As it would seem, topical materials that aren't time sensitive could go into subforums more than anything else.  Their posts don't roll off into oblivion as soon.  So it is easier to have an ongoing topical conversation over an extended period of time.

 

I am the type who likes to see as much as I can in a single glance.  So I am less inclined to click around and look into most of the subforums.

 

I realize that the subforums serve a purpose though, such as the Information Now! subforums, or the Keywords or Games ones.  That much makes sense to me.

 

Some subforums barely get used at all though, and just seem to clutter up the forums home page, for the sake of having a "completeist" matrix of sorts, presumably in case of an outside audit or something.  Those could probably get deleted, and the contents migrated elsewhere.

 

Oh yeah, if there isn't one already, the GD forum could probably have its own subforum called the B*tch-n-Moan-till-ya-Drop-Dead-or-just-Fall-Asleep Forum.  But one of the nice things about the GD forum is that its threads do roll off into oblivion, which is exactly where most of them belong.

 

:ph34r:

 

So it would seem everything is fine and dandy as-is.  :lol:

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Not knowing what the hell you're talking about, I couldn't offer a clue!

 

 

Sepiatone

Right, if you haven't been reading the threads in the LGBT area, I suppose you wouldn't know.

 

One of the ideas that came up over there was the Code of Conduct seems more specific to posting behaviors as opposed to posting content. It doesn't seem as defined as it could (should?) be. 

 

For instance, what is the key difference between a General Discussion and one that should occur in the sub-forums...?

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I am one of the posters who almost never goes looking through any of the subforums either, let alone that one. (not sure why you mentioned it here though, but that caused me to go there just to see what you were talking about).  If it were up to me though (and it's not - you know what they say about opinions), here is what I would say.

 

I would try to keep time-sensitive material on the GD forum.  No problems there, it seems to be the defacto dumping grounds already.

 

As it would seem, topical materials that aren't time sensitive could go into subforums more than anything else.  Their posts don't roll off into oblivion as soon.  So it is easier to have an ongoing topical conversation over an extended period of time.

 

I am the type who likes to see as much as I can in a single glance.  So I am less inclined to click around and look into most of the subforums.

 

I realize that the subforums serve a purpose though, such as the Information Now! subforums, or the Keywords or Games ones.  That much makes sense to me.

 

Some subforums barely get used at all though, and just seem to clutter up the forums home page, for the sake of having a "completeist" matrix of sorts, presumably in case of an outside audit or something.  Those could probably get deleted, and the contents migrated elsewhere.

 

Oh yeah, if there isn't one already, the GD forum could probably have its own subforum called the B*tch-n-Moan-till-ya-Drop-Dead-or-just-Fall-Asleep Forum.  But one of the nice things about the GD forum is that its threads do roll off into oblivion, which is exactly where most of them belong.

 

:ph34r:

 

So it would seem everything is fine and dandy as-is.  :lol:

 

The overall issues is that there are many like you that don't wish to 'go fishing' at various sub-forums and spend most of their time at the General Discussion forum.   Therefore they want most threads to be created only at GD,  regardless of content, otherwise they will miss them.   

 

Now by 'timely' I assume you mean threads with new content (content NOT read yet by the actual user as 'tagged' by the system).   This is why I always use the 'view new content' feature.  I only wish to see threads with content I haven't read yet.    BUT since few use this feature,   and instead only like to click on GD,   to me there is a simple solution that would serve all;

 

1) do NOT allow any threads to be created under GD.   (note,  'created under' is the key here).

2)  All threads created in other forums \ sub-forums are ALSO displayed under GD.  Therefore GD is just a redundant location for ALL threads regardless of where they were created.

3)   Users can reply to a thread either from GD or from it's actual created sub-forum location.    Either way the comments would display under BOTH locations.   (again, GD is just a redundant dumping ground for ALL threads).

 

Those users that only wish to use GD would see all threads, in order,  from most current (most current being the most currently UNREAD reply at a thread),    to least current.   

 

Those that use 'view new content' would see what they see today (most current unread threads from all forums),  but could go to either GD or to the sub-forum to read \ comment on threads.

 

Note:  If for whatever reasons the moderator MOVES a thread from one forum to another,  the above solution would insure NO impact to those GD only users (unlike today where a thread they were reading under GD is 'gone').       It believe it was the moving of threads that upset some users at this forum.     So this problem would be solved with the change I recommend.

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I would try to keep time-sensitive material on the GD forum...it seems to be the defacto dumping grounds already...

 

...Some subforums barely get used at all though...

The first part of what I quoted is definitely a concern of mine-- and I am glad you mentioned it. The General Discussions area could be seen as a 'dumping ground.' What I don't understand is why every time people hear about a death on the news they come here to post it. I mean, we all have access to the news. Finding out that the person who lived next door to the stand-in for John Wayne died because he fell asleep in a bowl of soup hardly seems conducive to a discussion about classic film. Plus, if it is being reported on countless other platforms why does it have to be here, too?

 

I am sure that when Linda Ronstadt dies or a member of Fleetwood Mac dies, we will immediately see threads about it here. But those people were not classic film performers. Why does this have to be a pop culture dumping ground...?

 

Next-- as for some sub-forums being used more than others, that is true. But how do we know that any given sub-forum won't become a lot more popular with time? We have new users joining each week, and some of them may enjoy the content in those sub-forums and become significant contributors in those areas. And there are people on the 'outside' who are not registered members lurking and reading. For all we know, those sub-forums could have a lot of traffic.

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The overall issues is that there are many like you that don't wish to 'go fishing' at various sub-forums and spend most of their time at the General Discussion forum.   Therefore they want most threads to be created only at GD,  regardless of content, otherwise they will miss them.   

 

Now by 'timely' I assume you mean threads with new content (content NOT read yet by the actual user as 'tagged' by the system).   This is why I always use the 'view new content' feature.  I only wish to see threads with content I haven't read yet.    BUT since few use this feature,   and instead only like to click on GD,   to me there is a simple solution that would serve all;

 

1) do NOT allow any treads to be created under GD.   (note,  'created under' is the key here).

2)  All threads created in other forums \ sub-forums are ALSO displayed under GD.  Therefore GD is just a redundant location for ALL threads regardless of where they were created.

3)   Users can reply to a thread either from GD or from it's actual created sub-forum location.    Either way the comments would display under BOTH locations.   (again, GD is just a redundant dumping ground for ALL threads).

 

Those users that only wish to use GD would see all threads, in order,  from most current (most current being the most currently UNREAD reply at a thread),    to least current.   

 

Those that use 'view new content' would see what they see today (most current unread threads from all forums),  but could go to either GD or to the sub-forum to read \ comment on threads.

 

Note:  If for whatever reasons the moderator MOVES a thread from one forum to another,  the above solution would insure NO impact to those GD only users (unlike today where a thread they were reading under GD is 'gone').       It believe it was the moving of threads that upset some users at this forum.     So this problem would be solved with the change I recommend.

 

Sounds good so far.  Essentially the GD forum would just be a "portal" to view and post to all other forums.  Add some user customization options and topic options, and I am probably most of the way there. 

 

The only issues I could see would be with having a user-defined dataset and the uncertainties that go along with it, which is why I suspect many shy away from posting under subforums.  At least that is true for me.  In the absence of certain quality control, things tend to become foggy and muddied up, then eventually lost.  But I suppose that is the way it will tend to be, since it is being organized by multiple people - each with a different viewpoint.  Sort of like IMDB's Keywords section for instance.  It is useful in many cases, but it also has more holes than swiss cheese (not IMDB's problem, it is just still maturing with user contributions).  But I suppose I am drifting off topic again.

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The first part of what I quoted is definitely a concern of mine-- and I am glad you mentioned it. The General Discussions area could be seen as a 'dumping ground.' What I don't understand is why every time people hear about a death on the news they come here to post it. I mean, we all have access to the news. Finding out that the person who lived next door to the stand-in for John Wayne died because he fell asleep in a bowl of soup hardly seems conducive to a discussion about classic film. Plus, if it is being reported on countless other platforms why does it have to be here, too?

 

I am sure that when Linda Ronstadt dies or a member of Fleetwood Mac dies, we will immediately see threads about it here. But those people were not classic film performers. Why does this have to be a pop culture dumping ground...?

 

Next-- as for some sub-forums being used more than others, that is true. But how do we know that when the Summer of Darkness series kicks off in June that the film noir sub-forum won't become a lot more popular among users? Plus, we have new users joining all the time, and some of them may enjoy the content in those sub-forums. And there are people on the 'outside' who are not registered members lurking and reading. For all we know, those sub-forums could have a lot of traffic.

 

Deaths will always be one of those things which get posted.  I have participated in probably over 20 discussion forums (but not at the same time!), and the only ones that don't mention deaths are those that are created by companies or fans for the sake of specific product or brand support (ie dodgeforum.com, forums.nextpvr.com, or videoredo.net).  Since this forum (and TCM) are directly connected to pop culture icons, I don't see why anyone shouldn't post on deaths here.  TCM has tributes.

 

For the rest of my reply, see the second half of my reply to James.

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Deaths will always be one of those things which get posted.  I have participated in probably over 20 discussion forums (but not at the same time!), and the only ones that don't mention deaths are those that are created by companies or fans for the sake of specific product or brand support (ie dodgeforum.com, forums.nextpvr.com, or videoredo.net).  Since this forum (and TCM) are directly connected to pop culture icons, I don't see why anyone shouldn't post on deaths here.  TCM has tributes.

I would say TCM's tributes are usually for people who played key roles in classic filmmaking. We would never see a tribute for a pop singer on TCM, unless they were also a movie star or else had contributed substantially to music featured in many classic films. 

 

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't think this is Turner Classic Pop Culture. 

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Deaths will always be one of those things which get posted.  I have participated in probably over 20 discussion forums (but not at the same time!), and the only ones that don't mention deaths are those that are created by companies or fans for the sake of specific product or brand support (ie dodgeforum.com, forums.nextpvr.com, or videoredo.net).  Since this forum (and TCM) are directly connected to pop culture icons, I don't see why anyone shouldn't post on deaths here.  TCM has tributes.

 

For the rest of my reply, see the second half of my reply to James.

 

There is an open question of if the purpose of the GD forum was for general discussion around movie topics NOT already better suited under one of the other forums OR any and all topics,  movie related or NOT.  e.g. death of a rock star that has never been in a movie is clearly a NON movie related topic.

 

I pointed out that I believe GD is only for movie related general discussions.   Why?  Well because the Chit-Chat forum is the only forum at this website with a sub-title of 'for NON movie related topics'.   To me this implies that all other threads are FOR movie related topics, including GD,  and one should post NON movie related topics under chit-chat.        BUT the code of conduct doesn't provide guidance here one way or the other. 

 

Anyhow,  since there are various opinions on what belongs in GD or not,  I proposed a solution that would work for everyone.  

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I would say TCM's tributes are usually for people who played key roles in classic filmmaking. We would never see a tribute for a pop singer on TCM, unless they were also a movie star or else had contributed substantially to music featured in many classic films. 

 

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't think this is Turner Classic Pop Culture. 

 

Yes, you are.  TCM "is" people.

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There is an open question of if the purpose of the GD forum was for general discussion around movie topics NOT already better suited under one of the other forums OR any and all topics,  movie related or NOT.  e.g. death of a rock star that has never been in a movie is clearly a NON movie related topic.

 

I pointed out that I believe GD is only for movie related general discussions.   Why?  Well because the Chit-Chat forum is the only forum at this website with a sub-title of 'for NON movie related topics'.   To me this implies that all other threads are FOR movie related topics, including GD,  and one should post NON movie related topics under chit-chat.        BUT the code of conduct doesn't provide guidance here one way or the other. 

 

Anyhow,  since there are various opinions on what belongs in GD or not,  I proposed a solution that would work for everyone.  

 

Aside from your solution working (mainly due to its simplicity and all-encompassing nature) is the issue of Deaths being a time-sensitive issue (ie people will probably want to read about it in a timely manner).  So that is where I was going with that.

 

Too many rules will drive people away from posting though.  I have seen it before.  There are probably only 20 or 30 active posters here.

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Deaths will always be one of those things which get posted.   

Of course. But we do have a TCM Memorials sub-forum-- and actually, I believe that is an excellent place to put all the announcements about the passings of various stars. It doesn't need to clutter up the General Discussions area unnecessarily.

 

For more: http://forums.tcm.com/index.php?/forum/144-tcm-memorials/

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Aside from your solution working (mainly due to its simplicity and all-encompassing nature) is the issue of Deaths being a time-sensitive issue (ie people will probably want to read about it in a timely manner).  So that is where I was going with that.

 

Too many rules will drive people away from posting though.  I have seen it before.  There are probably only 20 or 30 active posters here.

 

I agree about too many rules and this is why I offered a solution.   When the moderator moved some threads out of General Discussion to specific threads (e.g. a thread about a film noir movie moved to the noir sub-forum found under the genre forums),  this upset people especially those that only wish to go to GD.     With my solution it wouldn't matter if the moderator moved a thread.   The GD only folks would still be able to view it.

 

All time-sensitive issue threads would be seen under GD and in most cases they would be at the top of the listings since the order of the treads under GD would be by most recently unread thread (per user).   'New' and 'hot' threads of course have more recently unread postings.    Once a time-sensitive thread had run it's course it would drop off the first 'page'.

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Of course. But we do have a TCM Memorials sub-forum-- and actually, I believe that is an excellent place to put all the announcements about the passings of various stars. It doesn't need to clutter up the General Discussions area unnecessarily.

 

For more: http://forums.tcm.com/index.php?/forum/144-tcm-memorials/

 

You probably won't find this too surprising, even for me, but I didn't even know there was a memorials sub-section on this forum. :)

And (for those who haven't chatted with me via PM) no I am not new to computers or anything like that.

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I agree about too many rules and this is why I offered a solution.   When the moderator moved some threads out of General Discussion to specific threads (e.g. a thread about a film noir movie moved to the noir sub-forum found under the genre forums),  this upset people especially those that only wish to go to GD.     With my solution it wouldn't matter if the moderator moved a thread.   The GD only folks would still be able to view it.

 

All time-sensitive issue threads would be seen under GD and in most cases they would be at the top of the listings since the order of the treads under GD would be by most recently unread thread (per user).   'New' and 'hot' threads of course have more recently unread postings.    Once a time-sensitive thread had run it's course it would drop off the first 'page'.

 

Like I said before, so far so good.  That would work for future posts.  Now there is just the issue of what to do with old posts where the data set has never been classified into subsections.  Archive it and add that to the GD feed as well?

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You probably won't find this too surprising, even for me, but I didn't even know there was a memorials sub-section on this forum. :)

And (for those who haven't chatted with me via PM) no I am not new to computers or anything like that.

 

Ok, I went out and looked, and all I could find is something under TCM Programs.  That is not the same thing as having a seperate user section for Deaths.  I have not actually looked at it, but presumably it only contains threads related to TCM programming, right?.

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The OP brings up a discussion I was part of in an LGBT thread. Actually, what I brought up there was related to the fact that the Code does not say that we have to discuss movies on this Board. It gives all kinds of other directions, but not that. I was fascinated when I recently read the Code and noticed that, assuming I read it correctly.  As I said in my post in LGBT, that's just an academic observation on my part -- of course we're (basically!) here to discuss movies. But it's not in the Code, unless I missed something.

 

I did suggest that one of the discussions in LGBT was getting TOO general and might perhaps be better suited to the General Discussions forum. I see the sub-forums as more specific than General Discussions -- that's my view. But just about anything goes in General Discussions -- even specificity.

 

I don't see a problem with General Discussions.  Everything that may for convenience be discussed elsewhere may be discussed here. Even the memorials that have been mentioned -- they often turn into (welcome) discussions of the deceased's life and work, and how we feel about them. I wouldn't want them moved.

 

I would like to presume to suggest that we all think twice (or many times) before being promiscuous about our eagerness to start multiple threads of any kind. But it's a free country. And a free board, and within the Code's restrictions, I know, we can start as many threads as we want. 

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Of course. But we do have a TCM Memorials sub-forum-- and actually, I believe that is an excellent place to put all the announcements about the passings of various stars. It doesn't need to clutter up the General Discussions area unnecessarily.

 

 

 

UGH!!!

It's topics like this one that clutter up the General Discussions!

I hate when people post about posting!

Isn't there a PROBLEMS with the Message Boards forum for this kind of thing! 

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The OP brings up a discussion I was part of in an LGBT thread. Actually, what I brought up there was related to the fact that the Code does not say that we have to discuss movies on this Board. It gives all kinds of other directions, but not that. I was fascinated when I recently read the Code and notice that.  As I said in my post in LGBT, that's just an academic (and perhaps amusing) observation on my part -- of course we're (basically!) here to discuss movies. But it's not in the Code, unless I missed something.

 

I did suggest that one of the discussions in LGBT was getting TOO general and might perhaps be better suited to the General Discussions forum. I see the sub-forums as more specific than General Discussions -- that's my view.

 

I don't see a problem with General Discussions.  Everything that may for convenience be discussed elsewhere may be discussed here. Even the memorials that have been mentioned -- they often turn into (welcome) discussions of the deceased's life and work, and how we feel about them. I wouldn't want them moved.

 

I would like to presume to suggest that we all think twice (or many times) before being promiscuous about our eagerness to start multiple threads of any kind. But it's a free country. And a free board, and within the Code's restrictions, I know, we can start as many threads as we want. 

 

Can I ask why you say 'I wouldn't want them moved'?      Why?   What bugs you about a thread being moved?      Note that ONLY the moderator can move a thread and according to the moderator they move them NOT because someone is telling them to but because they (the moderator),  feel a thread in GD belongs in a more specific sub-forum.    It this specific case their is no 'free country';  i.e. the moderator has the power and authority to move threads.   

 

In addition you say "Everything that may for convenience be discussed elsewhere may be discussed here".    BUT since the moderator moves threads clearly the moderator doesn't agree with that POV.      Unless you can convince the moderators to NOT move threads you will continue to see threads moved.    

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I have no clue what the issue is but I think any topic about movies should be allowed in this General forum. This is the only one I look at like I think most people here do.

 

The issue here is that there are many people like you that only wish to 'look at'  (view) the GD forum.    BUT this website is set up with multiple forums.    This is why I proposed a solution;   Change "General Discussion" to be a portal where one can see ALL threads that have been posted regardless of where they originally posted.

 

Therefore folks like you can go to GD and NOT miss anything (as well as not creating redundant threads because you didn't see that someone else had already created a thread in a sub-forum)   and others that wish to use sub-forums can do so. 

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The issue here is that there are many people like you that only wish to 'look at'  (view) the GD forum.    BUT this website is set up with multiple forums.    This is why I proposed a solution;   Change "General Discussion" to be a portal where one can see ALL threads that have been posted regardless of where they originally posted.

 

Therefore folks like you can go to GD and NOT miss anything (as well as not creating redundant threads because you didn't see that someone else had already created a thread in a sub-forum)   and others that wish to use sub-forums can do so. 

 

Why don't they just delete most of those others forums and everyone post here? Except for a few of them it is all about movies. This thread is not about movies but should have been in Off Topic discussion.

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It's topics like this one that clutter up the General Discussions!

I hate when people post about posting!

While I respect your right to your opinion, I feel you are possibly over-reacting. Why can't there be a thread where people reflect on the General Discussions board, with the hope it might lead to smoother interactions...? To me, that seems like a constructive and noble aim.

 

If you are frustrated with it, then it is only one thread you have to avoid. And we literally have thousands of threads here. So there is still plenty for you to read and enjoy.

 

By the way, I notice you tend to make threads about musicals. What if someone said, 'gosh darn it I hate when people post about musicals!' Wouldn't that seem kind of reactionary and unfair?   :)

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