Any crime movies from late 40s that aren't noir?

[movielawyer]

I think we can all agree by this point that there is a lot more to films noir than just "crime movies from a certain time period".  We have seen a lot of movies that transcend genres like Mildred Pierce that might otherwise just be a woman's picture but veer into noir.  But is there a movie out there that is a crime movie from the late 40's that is definitely not noir?  Border Incident wasn't really noirish.  It was definitely a social justice picture that involved crime, but here it is on the list.  Mystery Street was a procedural, but here it is on the list.  They were both really good movies and well worth my time, but does every crime movie from the late 40s and early 50s automatically become noir?  Can we say that there are some that definitely are not noir?  We define noir by what it is, but we also need to define it by what it isn't.  

[magpie55]

Lawyer: Crossfire was an excellent film, but I wouldn't call it a noir film. It was more of a message film, and i would say noir films don't try to send messages.

[ElCid]

This one could go on forever.  I'm not taking the "course," but maybe somebody can come up with a three sentence definition?  Doubt it though.

Define comedy and drama and now we have "dramedy" because there are movies that transcend either definition.

[MyMoll]

for me in the 40s and 50s crime drama and noir intersect. like mystery street- i love that movie- but its only noir for the first 10minutes and more crime drama to me,

it's the same with these films: the naked city, they drive by night, out of the fog, johnny apollo, highway dragnet.

i say they are crime films

now that is just my opinion. and there  seems to be a split on that- some films there's a camp that say these films are film noir and others dont.. bottom line to me really they are just good movies

[cigarjoe]

for me in the 40s and 50s crime drama and noir intersect. like mystery street- i love that movie- but its only noir for the first 10minutes and more crime drama to me,

it's the same with these films: the naked city, they drive by night, out of the fog, johnny apollo, highway dragnet.

i say they are crime films

now that is just my opinion. and there  seems to be a split on that- some films there's a camp that say these films are film noir and others dont.. bottom line to me really they are just good movies

It's even worse with Neo Noir's, In the book  Film Noir The Encyclopedia by Silver, Ursini, Ward, and Porfirio, out of the 150 Neo Noir's listed I haven't seen 63 of them, agree with 43 of the films listed and disagree with 44, and know of definite Neo Noir's that are not listed. I'm making an effort to view the one's listed that I haven't seen. A lot of Neo's listed are NIPO's (Noir In Plot Only)

 

Case in point, the last film on my Netflix list of these un watched films that I viewed was Miami Vice (2006), I didn't get any noir vibe from it at all just the overwhelming Action Genre type same ol' same ol'. Others on the list are Malick's Badlands another NIPO albeit it has a voice over., a few others I disagree with;

 

Bad Lieutenant (1992) didn't get the vibe

Basic Instinct (1992) a bit over the top, since when is someone under investigation and put on a dais, etc., too contrived. 

The Border (1982) no strong noir vibe from this

Charley Varrick (1973) Crime Film

Cape Fear (1991) original way better and atmospheric

D.O.A. (1988) more Action flick

Devil In A Blue Dress (1995) good but more PI than Noir

The Driver (1978) Crime Film

Fatal Attraction (1987) more a horror/thriller don't remember Noir stylistics.

Fight Club (1999) ???

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973) no vibe from this

The Getaway (1972) no vibe from this

The Killers (1964) no vibe from this

Night And The City (1992) NIPO

Point Blank (1967) NIPO

Silence Of The Lambs (1991) Crime Film

Sleeping With The Enemy (1991) no vibe from this

Twilight (1998)  Crime Film

The Usual Suspects (1995) no strong noir vibe from this

Witness (1985)no strong noir vibe from this

[piperhaven]

Lawyer: Crossfire was an excellent film, but I wouldn't call it a noir film. It was more of a message film, and i would say noir films don't try to send messages.

I think noir films do send messages but not necessarily the ostensible .'message' of the movie  i.e. . if you allow an obviously bad woman to get under your skin and make you do bad things, you will be punished.  I believe that noir movies are about hidden fears and desires that we are afraid to admit even to ourselves.  In truth, they encourage immorality in us.  We want Edward G to get away with murder in Scarlet Street because he is innocent.  We think Dan Duryea should have been murdered because of the way he treats Joan Bennet.  Blind justice has no place in noir land.  It appeals to the vestigial animal in us all, the desire for complete freedom and revenge.  I agree with you about Crossfire.  This is a film about prejudice and says so very compellingly.  Using shadows and light alone does not make a noir movie.

[cigarjoe]

Late 40s Crime films that aren't Noir?

 

Not late 40s but early 50s Confidence Girl (1952) with Hillary Brooke, its almost a noir though and would fit nicely on a double bill with Nightmare Alley

 

But check out Hillary Brooke's filmography there are a few other non Noir Crime titles such as Big Town (1947)

[JamesJazGuitar]

Late 40s Crime films that aren't Noir?

 

Not late 40s but early 50s Confidence Girl (1952) with Hillary Brooke, its almost a noir though and would fit nicely on a double bill with Nightmare Alley

 

But check out Hillary Brooke's filmography there are a few other non Noir Crime titles such as Big Town (1947)

 

Confidence Girl sounds very interesting.    Since TCM has a review of the film,  I assume they show it from time to time.  I'll have to keep on the lookout for it.     These are the type of low budget films from studios like United Artist that I wish TCM would feature more often. 

[MyMoll]

i looked up confidence girl, it has tom conway in it- that is on my list, i too wish tcm would show more of the better b-movies too

Confidence Girl sounds very interesting.    Since TCM has a review of the film,  I assume they show it from time to time.  I'll have to keep on the lookout for it.     These are the type of low budget films from studios like United Artist that I wish TCM would feature more often. 

[celmaib]

I was thinking something similar. There're films considered 'noir' that I don't find to be the case.

The other day I was watching The Naked City (1948) by Jules Dassin, and it's a movie that the general consensus considered noir, but I didn't find anything that could be said to be noir in that movie. It's more of a whodunnit with the novelty of being shot in the city. I don't think that for having a voiceover and a murder at the beginning it's a 'noir' -there isn't any depth or ambiguity to the characters to name one thing that could be said to be 'noir'.

 

It seems that at some point, the new directors, or the ones doing movies about crime and detective work, all ascribed to the new wave at the moment, and every movie made shared some caracteristic with 'noir' or was grouped under the term for being from that time period. Also it seems that to put some limit to the term could be hard because even the first use of 'noir' was to categorize a different interest in the new movies that were appearing. In his essay, Nino Frank call this new movies "criminal adventures or criminal psychology", he also writes something along the lines that "psychological plots, violent or emotional action, have less impact than facial expressions, gestures, utterances - that this caracteristics render the truth of the characters" as one difference in favor (for him) between these new movies with others run-of-the-mill police dramas.

 

I guess that by now could be difficult to determine what crime movie from the 40 it isn't noir (unless it's a straight story about criminals like White Heat). However, I also think that it can be useful to identify what is and what isn't noir, not to label these movies, but for understanding what made them different from others, just as when the term first appeared, and to understand when they became different again.

[cigarjoe]

Confidence Girl sounds very interesting.    Since TCM has a review of the film,  I assume they show it from time to time.  I'll have to keep on the lookout for it.     These are the type of low budget films from studios like United Artist that I wish TCM would feature more often. 

 

 

i looked up confidence girl, it has tom conway in it- that is on my list, i too wish tcm would show more of the better b-movies too

It was streaming on Netflix awhile ago.

[ElCid]

Late 40s Crime films that aren't Noir?

 

Not late 40s but early 50s Confidence Girl (1952) with Hillary Brooke, its almost a noir though and would fit nicely on a double bill with Nightmare Alley

 

But check out Hillary Brooke's filmography there are a few other non Noir Crime titles such as Big Town (1947)

Assume her role in My Little Margie TV series was not noir?

[cigarjoe]

Assume her role in My Little Margie TV series was not noir?

She was a regular co-star on the Abbott & Costello show too.

 

But seriously, knowing what we know about the studio system, that they typecast actors in similar character roles, all we'd have to do to find non noir crime films is search through a character actors filmography and see.