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Warning gone with the wind is being attack


28Silent

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I thought this was a lucid topic until I read it was inspired by Lou Lamank.

Pleeeze.

 

No, GWTW is not going to be under attack, unless it is a drummed-up topic for click-bait.

 

I would rather discuss the sources in historical reference and perspective, and how we seek from original sources (or not). What writers like Margaret Mitchell and the producers of GWTW were exposed to in their education of history, and what social constructs of their time that formed their opinions. But I guess for some, even that will cut too close to the bone.

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I felt I oughta mention that, from 1984-87, I went to 'Jefferson Davis Middle School' in Palm Springs, FL.  Sometime in the '90s the school had a 'face lift' and was re-named.  (I think it was re-named 'Palm Springs Middle School').       

:o

You started middle school in '84?

 

My oldest was already in middle school by then!

 

Are you sure you're OLD ENOUGH to be in this forum?  B)

 

Anyway....

 

There was a time the BRITISH flag flew over these lands, and any classic flick that displays that, or also displays "loyalist" attitudes of the times surely should be allowed.  Especially if the story surrounding such things is pure fiction, as it was with GWTW.  Oh, SURE....the slavery was real, but the movie also shows it being abolished, and it's defenders defeated. How come, it seems, nobody else ever sees this angle?

 

 

Sepiatone

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To hear Mr. Trump talk, you'd think Mexico was sending The Brainiac (El Baron del Terror) -- whom I would like to see on TCM:

 

NDVD_021.JPG

 

Nah, we have our own Brainiac. (can't help to laugh at that Halloween mask in "El Baron del Terror")

 

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:o

You started middle school in '84?

 

My oldest was already in middle school by then!

 

Are you sure you're OLD ENOUGH to be in this forum?  B)

 

Anyway....

 

There was a time the BRITISH flag flew over these lands, and any classic flick that displays that, or also displays "loyalist" attitudes of the times surely should be allowed.  Especially if the story surrounding such things is pure fiction, as it was with GWTW.  Oh, SURE....the slavery was real, but the movie also shows it being abolished, and it's defenders defeated. How come, it seems, nobody else ever sees this angle?

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Because it makes too much sense and is not conducive to the effusion of the agenda mongering. Please don't make such intelligent and reasonable points like that. It ruins the fun (for some).

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Because it makes too much sense and is not conducive to the effusion of the agenda mongering. Please don't make such intelligent and reasonable points like that. It ruins the fun (for some).

There is an enjoyable play by Shaw called The Apple Cart. Part of it concerns a visit to the British king by the American Ambassador, Mr. Vanhattan, who announces that the U.S. wants to rejoin England:

 

VANHATTAN: "The Declaration of Independence is cancelled. The treaties which endorsed it are torn up. We have decided to rejoin the British Empire. We shall of course enjoy Dominion Home Rule under the Presidency of Mr Bossfield. I shall revisit you here shortly, not as the Ambassador of a foreign power, but as High Commissioner for the greatest of your dominions, and your very loyal and devoted subject, sir."

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Along the 'pc I wasn't aware of theme'..I just typed the line hoop t o s s e r on a game thread (Dick Haymes in State Fair) without the spaces of course, and it appeared as asterisks..like I was using profanity..lol????

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Ben Franklin's illegitimate son William Franklin was a British Loyalist which caused an irreconcilable break between the two. As Winston Churchill once wrote: History is written by the victors.

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Ben Franklin's illegitimate son William Franklin was a British Loyalist which caused an irreconcilable break between the two. As Winston Churchill once wrote: History is written by the victors.

 

Thank Heaven for that (with respect to some recently-discussed historical events...)

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What does France have to do with this conversation?

 

As far as the signers of the Declaration of Independence is concerned, you are correct that many of them participated in the slavery issue. Many of the southern delegates having been slave owners themselves especially Jefferson who wrote the document.

 

But seeing how you took advanced American History in high school, they must have passed over the part where to get the darn document passed and ratified, the section dealing with slavery was deleted from the document to get the southern delegates to approve it.

 

From http://www.blackpast.org -

 

When Thomas Jefferson included a passage attacking slavery in his draft of the Declaration of Independence it initiated the most intense debate among the delegates gathered at Philadelphia in the spring and early  summer of 1776.  Jefferson's passage on slavery was the most important section removed from the final document.  It was replaced with a more ambiguous passage about King George's incitement of "domestic insurrections among us." 

 

Decades later Jefferson blamed the removal of the passage on delegates from South Carolina and Georgia and Northern delegates who represented merchants who were at the time actively involved in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. 

 

Jefferson's original passage on slavery appears below.



 

"He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither.  This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain.  Determined to keep open a market where Men should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce.  And that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he has obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed again the Liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another".

 

 

I love it when treason is passed off as dissent. 

 

It's been ten years since I was in high school too, but everyone is entitled to view history as subjectively as they view their news sources. I view America to be a great country, but a human country. None of that "city on a hill" hallucination that a dementia'd B - movie star who became President purported. I believe that we should take responsibility for our sins, past and present. The domestic terrorism that took place in Charleston and actions following that have been good starters for greater opportunity. 

 

Where I feel like we disagree is how we both look at history, and how we interpret it. We are entitled not to agree with how we look at it. I see the Civil War being fought over the states' rights to own a person impacting a part of the country so much based on its dependence on slavery to their economy that separating from the Union was the only way to guarantee the buying and selling of human beings. In light of this discussion, I think how we view mass murder differently impacts our disagreement of it. Maybe I am connecting slavery and Jim Crow to Nazi Germany because the Final Solution was inspired by Jim Crow laws. I mentioned France because at France's first opportunity of freedom from British rule, they freed their slaves as well. 

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http://www.wcax.com/story/29523007/why-woodstock-is-saying-no-to-gone-with-the-wind

 

"WOODSTOCK, Vt. -

 

An award-winning classic, "Gone with the Wind" won 10 Academy Awards in 1940, including best picture. It's a glimpse into life in the South during and after the Civil War.

 

While many enjoy the film, some say its racial undertones are not appropriate for all audiences.

"There are a million films to show. I don't need to show this one," said Alita Wilson, the executive director at Woodstock's Pentangle Arts Council.

 

Wilson spearheaded the effort to host a series of free movie screenings in town. They were going to show "Gone with the Wind" starting July 15.

 

"When I selected it, I thought of it more as one of those iconic films. You know, way back, first Academy Award winner," she said.

 

"And then I looked at it again, particularly that opening scene, and it struck me as really a glorification of the Confederacy and particularly not paying much attention to slavery and what the war was about."

 

And then Charleston happened. Police say Dylann Roof shot and killed nine people in a historic black church last month, prompting an outpouring of grief and sparking conversations about racism.

 

"I was pretty affected by the gun violence that has started, particularly with police shootings. And then sort of the culmination for me was the shooting in South Carolina," Wilson said.

 

She chose to pull "Gone with the Wind" and replace it with "Sense and Sensibility.""

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I am not offended. I was born and raised in Charlottesville, Virginia and lived the first ten years of my life in and around that area. My uncle owned a motel in Afton Virginia, where I stayed during my summers off from school. I met many different people during those summers from all over the country so I learned early on that many people had different takes on things, especially history.

 

And because I grew up in that area, I visited Monticello every year from the time I was five years old. When I was eight years old I really started to appreciate what I started to see there. And even though we moved to upstate New York in 1970, I maintained a keen sense to continue to learn as much as I could about that time period and American history in general.

 

As far as looking at history honestly, you may be doing that. But being accurate is another story. You need to be able to see and understand both sides of an historical issue.

 

Using the atomic bomb story as part of an overall larger context of the killing of civilians, one must also understand that the dropping of those bombs was probably the main reason Japan decided to surrender later that August in 1945. And because of that decision by Truman to bomb Japan with those two atomic bombs, it has often been bandied about that if we had not used the atomic bombs, anywhere from 200,000 to almost one million allied soldiers would have been killed had we gone ahead and invaded Japan.

Good to know- I only have been to the American South once, and all I saw was the CNN building, and those who I know who grew up in the South, moved North for personal and political reasons. 

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She chose to pull "Gone with the Wind" and replace it with "Sense and Sensibility.""

I don't understand that point of view. Gone with the Wind is a dramatization of a popular novel and a fictionalized depiction of the period it represents. There are great moments in it. I don't think it is a very good movie -- I think the fact that too many directors worked on it damaged the final product. I think it was quite right that the New York Film Critics chose Wuthering Heights as the best film of that year. But of course it should be shown, and it will be.

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"US critic: 'undeniably racist' Gone with the Wind should be banned from cinemas

 

The New York Post film critic Lou Lumenick has called for Gone with the Wind, the 1939 multi-Oscar-winning epic, to no longer be screened in cinemas."

 

More here:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/jun/25/us-critic-deniably-racist-gone-with-the-wind-should-be-banned-from-cinemas

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In 2001, I saw a movie called O. It's an updated version of Othello, set in an American high school.  Basketball and lots of violence. Truly great performances by Mekhi Phifer, Josh Hartnett, and Julia Stiles (playing Odin, Hugo, and Desi, instead of Othello, Iago, and Desdemona). The film was made in 1999, but distribution was shelved for two years because of the Columbine massacre. I can understand that -- the movie would have touched too many nerves had it been released in 1999.  

 

But that's an exception -- the Gone with the Wind situation is totally different, it's just a pretty good old movie about life in another time.

 

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I don't understand that point of view. Gone with the Wind is a dramatization of a popular novel and a fictionalized depiction of the period it represents. There are great moments in it. I don't think it is a very good movie -- I think the fact that too many directors worked on it damaged the final product. I think it was quite right that the New York Film Critics chose Wuthering Heights as the best film of that year. But of course it should be shown, and it will be.

 

And GWTW is not a History Channel docudrama either.  

 

Here I believe were the original book covers. (the bottom looks quite old)

 

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Rhett looks more Robert Taylor than Clark Gable. :lol:

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Some unknown facts about the book.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30591/10-things-you-might-not-know-about-gone-wind

 

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Margaret Mitchell was hit by a speeding automobile crossing Peachtree St, Atlanta, Ga.  A street I've been on a few times. She died a few days later in a hospital.

 

Margaret Mitchell: November 8, 1900 – August 16, 1949

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And GWTW is not a History Channel docudrama either.  

 

Nothing is a History Channel docudrama, not even films about historical figures. I've been reading about Wilson, one of my favorite films, a truly great epic. But not the whole truth about the President. Yet a remarkable movie about much of his life and work. And as thrilling a depiction of what the old political conventions were like as you'll ever find in a movie.  Those scenes of the Democratic Convention of 1912 are pure cinema as well as a taste of history.

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"US critic: 'undeniably racist' Gone with the Wind should be banned from cinemas

 

So even the depiction of past attitudes and beliefs throughout history shouldn't be permitted anymore - even in stories and films that use historical times and events as backdrop.

 

Now, that's an interesting opinion. And by interesting I mean insane.

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Good to know- I only have been to the American South once, and all I saw was the CNN building, and those who I know who grew up in the South, moved North for personal and political reasons. 

Demographically, most Southerners who moved north did so for economic reasons.  More and better paying jobs.

Ironically, the trend has reversed and Northerners are now moving South.  Doubt it is for political reasons.

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