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Warning gone with the wind is being attack


28Silent

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 Maybe I am connecting slavery and Jim Crow to Nazi Germany because the Final Solution was inspired by Jim Crow laws. I mentioned France because at France's first opportunity of freedom from British rule, they freed their slaves as well. 

Not sure if you are the one who took AP history in high school, but I hope above was not part of it.

Adolph Hitler was not inspired by Jim Crow laws in the American South, assuming he even knew about them.  His "Final Solution" was created in the 1920's and based on European attitudes toward Jews.  It also called for elimination of the Jews as a people, whereas Jim Crow laws just tried to regulate the African-American population.

When was France under British rule?  During the 12th(?) century, England controlled part of France (Normandy mostly), but the French controlled the rest of the country.  

France was influenced by Great Britan at various periods, such as during the American Civil War.  Napoleon III wanted to recognize the Confederacy, but wouldn't because Britan wouldn't.  Nappy III wanted to establish an empire in Mexico and knew that the US would never allow it, but the CSA just might.

BTW, I majored in American history in college.

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pius-9.jpg

Pope Pius the IX considered Jefferson Davis worthy of the customary title Honorable.

 

Illustrious and honorable sir, greeting:

 

We have lately received with all kindness, as was meet, the gentlemen sent by your Excellency to present to us your letter dated on the 23d of last September. We have received certainly no small pleasure in learning both from these gentlemen and from your letter the feelings of gratification and of very warm appreciation with which you, illustrious and honorable sir, were moved when you first had knowledge written in October of the preceding year to the venerable brethren, John, archbishop of New York, and John, archbishop of New Orleans, in which we again and again urged and exhorted those venerable brethren that because of their exemplary piety and episcopal zeal they should employ their most earnest efforts, in our name also, in order that the fatal civil war which had arisen in the States should end, and that the people of America might again enjoy mutual peace and concord, and love each other with mutual charity.

 

And it has been very gratifying to us to recognize illustrious and honorable sir, that you and your people are animated by the same desire for peace and tranquillity, which we had so earnestly inculcated in our aforesaid letters to the venerable brethren above named. Oh, that the other people also of the States and their rulers, considering

seriously how cruel and how deplorable is this internecine war, would receive and embrace the counsels of peace and tranquillity. We indeed shall not cease with most fervent prayer to beseech God, the best and highest, and to implore Him to pour out the spirit of Christian love and peace upon all the people of America, and to rescue them from the great calamities with which they are afflicted. And we also pray the same most merciful Lord that he will illumine your Excellency with the light of His divine grace and unite you with ourselves in perfect charity.

 

Given at Rome at St. Peters on the 3d December, 1863, in the eighteenth year of our pontificate.

 

PIUS P. P. IX.

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Pope Pius the IX considered Jefferson Davis worthy of the customary title Honorable.

In what context?  As a former US Senator and US Secretary of War, the title would have been appropriate as the title is used today.

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OK:  Google "Lumenick & Ebert--click on the response from the Huffington Post to get Eberts' classy response.

 

Google "Lumenick & NYFCC (New York Film Critics Circle)

 

Google "Lumenick & Vulture" (it is apparently a 2009 dreadful movie I missed)

 

The person is a publicity hound who, IMHO, is trying to get back on the "correct" side of  his jobs' image--let him bray & hopefully he will be disciplined by the NYFCC again--or lose his job.  Please quit giving this person what they obviously want--publicity.  This thread has been most interesting, but I'm interested in Film history--& its' availability, (i.e., not having to go to a museum & watch GWTW--assuming there's a museum nearby.)  So just let this fool bray until a new controversial subject comes up.

 

JakeHolman--thanks for the film clips & pictures.  I know others attached pictures & film clips--thanks to them too.

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JakeHolman--thanks for the film clips & pictures.  I know others attached pictures & film clips--thanks to them too.

You're welcome.

 

You know Blu-ray sales of GWTW have gone through the roof at Amazon since this was written. There's much more at work than this small time movie critic. You will see more and more folks opt not to show it

so as not to offend anyone. These are the times we live in.

 

Have a great day.

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Not sure if you are the one who took AP history in high school, but I hope above was not part of it.

Adolph Hitler was not inspired by Jim Crow laws in the American South, assuming he even knew about them.  His "Final Solution" was created in the 1920's and based on European attitudes toward Jews.  It also called for elimination of the Jews as a people, whereas Jim Crow laws just tried to regulate the African-American population.

 

Hitler mainly used Jim Crow laws as a way of addressing our hypocrisy when it came to dealing with "inferior" races.  In a similar manner, the Soviets used these laws in response to any criticisms we had of their show trials and other atrocities.

 

But if you want to look for an American who truly did inspire Hitler, you need look no further than this man:

 

1410573910000-FORD-book.png

 

Ford's portrait hung behind Hitler's desk, and he never made a secret of his admiration for him.

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Hitler mainly used Jim Crow laws as a way of addressing our hypocrisy when it came to dealing with "inferior" races.  In a similar manner, the Soviets used these laws in response to any criticisms we had of their show trials and other atrocities.

 

But if you want to look for an American who truly did inspire Hitler, you need look no further than this man:

 

1410573910000-FORD-book.png

 

Ford's portrait hung behind Hitler's desk, and he never made a secret of his admiration for him.

 

Photo of Ford receiving the Grand Cross of the German Eagle from Karl Kapp, German consul-general of Cleveland.

 

orange-Ford-medal2.png

 

 

Jewish response to his antisemitism.

 

hh0134s.jpg

 

 

 

Wonder if there is a new level in Dante's Inferno for Ford to breath car exhaust for all eternity?

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Not sure if you are the one who took AP history in high school, but I hope above was not part of it.

Adolph Hitler was not inspired by Jim Crow laws in the American South, assuming he even knew about them.  His "Final Solution" was created in the 1920's and based on European attitudes toward Jews.  It also called for elimination of the Jews as a people, whereas Jim Crow laws just tried to regulate the African-American population.

When was France under British rule?  During the 12th(?) century, England controlled part of France (Normandy mostly), but the French controlled the rest of the country.  

France was influenced by Great Britan at various periods, such as during the American Civil War.  Napoleon III wanted to recognize the Confederacy, but wouldn't because Britan wouldn't.  Nappy III wanted to establish an empire in Mexico and knew that the US would never allow it, but the CSA just might.

BTW, I majored in American history in college.

No, it wasn't covered in AP U.S. History. I learned about that a few years ago. 

 

As for European knowledge of American economic and social policy, I am sure the Europeans knew about Jim Crow, because Europe was where the African-American, if able to get over there, was able to feel accepted mostly. Josephine Baker and Paul Robeson are examples of how Europe treated people of color better than the America of their time did. 

 

There is no doubt in the mind that there aren't historical connections between Jim Crow and Nazi Germany. The Nazis convinced through countless publications and social institution reinforcement how unhuman Jewish people were as Jim Crow did for the African-American, Jewish American, and Catholic-American. The Nazis moved everyone to the ghetto, separate from mainstream German society. Jim Crow did the same thing separating parts of town from white and black. The Nazis lynched the Jewish Americans among them through various acts of public killings to destroying Jewish businesses. Jim Crow did that by burning down Black Wall Street in the 1920s and countless lynchings that didn't end until after the Civil Rights Acts of the 1960s were passed. It is hard NOT to compare Jim Crow to Nazi Germany, and even harder not to see that Hitler wasn't conscious of how America treated its "minorities" so as to assert his notions of what the world's most superior race was. 

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Demographically, most Southerners who moved north did so for economic reasons.  More and better paying jobs.

Ironically, the trend has reversed and Northerners are now moving South.  Doubt it is for political reasons.

Well, the friends I made who originally came from the South moved North because they are gay and because for their jobs and academic opportunities. These are individual cases and not speaking generally as a whole. 

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Adolph Hitler was not inspired by Jim Crow laws in the American South, assuming he even knew about them.  His "Final Solution" was created in the 1920's and based on

 

The Darwinian theory of EUGENICS. I.E., "inferior people" should be eleminated.

 

Read up on the US and European eugenics laws in the 1920s and 30s.

 

The concept of "eugenics" was invented by Francis Galton, a cousin of Charles Darwin.

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Bertrand Russell, “Marriage and Morals”, 1929, 1938, this text scanned from my 1938 copy:

 

“EUGENICS is the attempt to improve the

biological character of a breed by de-

the hereditary factor in

human achievement liberate methods adopted to that end. The

ideas upon which it is based are Darwinian,

and appropriately enough, the President of

the Eugenics Society is a son of Charles Dar-

win; but the more immediate progenitor of

eugenic ideas was Francis Galton, who

strongly emphasized.

 

----------

 

Eugenics is of two sorts, positive and nega-

tive. The former is concerned with the en-

couragement of good stocks, the latter with the

discouragement of bad ones. The latter is at

present more practicable. It has, indeed, made

great strides in certain states in America, and

the sterilization of the unfit is within the scope

of immediate practical politics in England.

 

-----------

 

Feeble-

minded women, as everyone knows, are apt

to have enormous numbers of illegitimate chil-

dred, all, as a rule, wholly worthless to the

community. These women would themselves

be happier if they were sterilized, since it is not

from any philoprogenitive impulse that they

become pregnant. The same thing, of course,

applies to feeble-minded men. There are, it is

true, grave dangers in the system, since the

authorities may easily come to consider any

unusual opinion or any opposition to them-

selves as a mark of feeble-mindedness. These

dangers, however, are probably worth incur-

ring, since it is quite clear that the number of

idiots, imbeciles, and feeble-minded could, by

such measures, be enormously diminished.

 

----------

 

In extreme cases there can be little doubt

of the superiority of one race to another.

North America, Australia and New Zealand

certainly contribute more to the civilization of

the world than they would do if they were still

peopled by aborigines. It seems on the whole

fair to regard negroes as on the average in-

ferior to white men, although for work in the

tropics they are indispensable[/i], so that their

extermination (apart from questions of hu-

manity) would be highly undesirable. But

when it comes to discriminating among the

races of Europe, a mass of bad science has to

be brought in to support political prejudice.

Nor do I see any valid ground for regarding

the yellow races as in any degree inferior to

our noble selves.”

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Text from “A Civic Biology”, By George Hunter, 1914 edition, high school biology book.

 

This is the US high school text book that John T. Scopes taught from in 1925 and that the ACLU defended. This text is copied from my copy of the book.

 

Parasitism and its Cost to Society – Hundreds of families

such as those described above exist to-day, spreading disease,

immorality, and crime to all parts of this country. The cost to

society of such families is very severe. Just as certain animals

or plants become parasitic on other plants or animals, these families

have become parasitic on society. They not only do harm to others

by corrupting, stealing, or spreading disease, but they are actually

protected and cared for by the state out of public money. Largely

for them the poorhouse and the asylum exist, They take from

society, but they give nothing in return. They are true parasites.

 

The Remedy – If such people were lower animals, we would

probably kill them off to prevent them from spreading. Humanity

will not allow this, but we do have the remedy of separating the

sexes in asylums or other places and in various ways preventing

intermarriage and the possibilities of perpetuating such a low and

degenerate race. Remedies of this sort have been tried success-

fully in Europe and are now meeting with success in this country .

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Photo of Ford receiving the Grand Cross of the German Eagle from Karl Kapp, German consul-general of Cleveland.

 

orange-Ford-medal2.png

 

 

Jewish response to his antisemitism.

 

hh0134s.jpg

 

 

 

Wonder if there is a new level in Dante's Inferno for Ford to breath car exhaust for all eternity?

 

Here was another one of Hitler's American heroes:

 

nazi-minister-of-aviation-herman-goering

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Well, the friends I made who originally came from the South moved North because they are gay and because for their jobs and academic opportunities. These are individual cases and not speaking generally as a whole. 

Deleted as I plan to ignore this entire thread from now on.  Now, I'm going to watch the Summer of Darkness and Sci-Fi movies I recorded, but haven't gotten to watch yet.  Time to watch TCM rather than talking about extraneous topics.

Y'all have fun though!

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Just out of curiosity, how long ago was that?  Because it sure has been different in the last 20 years or so, even in most coservative areas of the South.

About ten years ago. One of my friends' family moved from Florida to California. 

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Just out of curiosity, how long ago was that?  Because it sure has been different in the last 20 years or so, even in most coservative areas of the South.

 

Different as it relates to treatment of gays?   Well yes, and no;   Yea, more people are accepting of the lifestyle than they were 20 years ago but I believe the only states where some county clerks refused to issue marriage licenses after the SC ruling where in the South (Texas which may or may not be in the South depending on how one defines it).     

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As I stated in my response to fixeyman, it is a challenge because white people still profit off of racism and don't want their privileges challenged. I should also point out that, not to take away from the African-American struggle, but Irish-Americans were for a long time sold as slaves as well. My ancestors were sold equally along with African slaves to the Americas. When Anglo-Americans found out the Irish were white, they stopped accepting slave ships from Ireland and my ancestors settled in the Midwest. 

I know you felt the need to make a point about Irish Americans. But I don't think that really answered what I was addressing in my earlier post. I was saying that revisionism has a history all its own. And for some, a more traditional view of history being rewritten in politically correct terms is seen as a bastardization of 'truth.'

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I know you felt the need to make a point about Irish Americans. But I don't think that really answered what I was addressing in my earlier post. I was saying that revisionism has a history all its own. And for some, a more traditional view of history being rewritten in politically correct terms is seen as a bastardization of 'truth.'

One of your best posts.

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One of your best posts.

It is important to remember that most of us came from groups that, at one time or another in history, were victims of racism:

 

"A political party, the Know-Nothings, sprang up with a program of purging the nation of these newcomers. In 1854 they elected six state governors and seventy five congressmen and in 1856 won 25 percent of the presidential vote. “The Negro is black outside,” they shouted. “The Irishman is black inside.” A Boston company advertised “Know-Nothing Soap” --  guaranteed to cleanse the native born of Irish stench.

 

A cartoon portrayed an African American woman telling her children to stop playing in “dat mud! First ting you know you’ll be took for Irish chil’en!” Newspaper ads for jobs bluntly stated: “No Irish need apply.”A Chicago Post editorial summed up Anglo-Saxon detestation. “Scratch a convict or a pauper and the chances are you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic!”

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I know you felt the need to make a point about Irish Americans. But I don't think that really answered what I was addressing in my earlier post. I was saying that revisionism has a history all its own. And for some, a more traditional view of history being rewritten in politically correct terms is seen as a bastardization of 'truth.'

The traditional view of history is applied in traditional, disrespectful terms. Call it "politically correct" all you want to, but what you complain about has a human price. I'd rather drop knowledge of another side that barely gets the consideration, let alone the defined human one, than to not comment at all because of hypersensitive types who whine about "political correct" 24/7 and just want to hear themselves speak. 

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I know you felt the need to make a point about Irish Americans. But I don't think that really answered what I was addressing in my earlier post. I was saying that revisionism has a history all its own. And for some, a more traditional view of history being rewritten in politically correct terms is seen as a bastardization of 'truth.'

Also, which socially dominant group defines "truth?" Which group of people defines that as objective? When it comes to history, people who determine what goes in, what is taught, and what people take away from learning? History, as apart of the social institution of education is determined by the dominant social group. 

 

I read this article that had the headline "The Flag May Be Down, But The South Still Has The Narrative" and the article pretty much looked at how attitudes affect reality, and how that manifestation silenced the history of the "other side" in relation to the Confederacy, slavery, and why the Civil War was fought. It is an interesting read and I will find it and post it on here. 

 

There is truth is society and truth of person. The truth we qualify as "objective" regarding these matters have only been one-sided, romanticized, and revised to accommodate and create the perspective of the dominant social group, white Americans, to believe in the attitude of the slave owners. Not every white American believes that they are superior to other races, and when they express an attitude that suggests that, they whine and get defensive and because they do, they get silence from those who may or may not be harmed by that attitude being expressed. At least that is the profitable ideal. The truth of a person's experience is lost on the believed "truth" of society. It's no wonder people of color believe that society and its institutions doesn't value their lives as equal worth. The irony of that racist reality is that the white people believe that it is their victims' fault for why white people don't like people of color, all the while contributing in attitude and manifestation in social institutions and attitude to those unequal realities. 

 

We can talk about bastardization of truth, but I can only count the bastards people of social privilege be they white, heterosexual, Christian, and male have made of the truths of people and the experiences they don't validate as human. 

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Many  Irish, Scots, and English came to the Americas not as slaves,

but as indentured servants, whose term of service was temporary,

as opposed to slaves from Africa whose service was permanent.

Not that indentured servants had it easy. Many suffered under

very harsh conditions, but they were not in as bad a position as

black slaves were.

 

Many ethnic or national groups were subject to racism, but no

group in the U.S. suffered as much from racism as African-Americans.

There was a time where African slaves and Irish peasants were sold equally alongside each other. 

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The traditional view of history is applied in traditional, disrespectful terms. Call it "politically correct" all you want to, but what you complain about has a human price. I'd rather drop knowledge of another side that barely gets the consideration, let alone the defined human one, than to not comment at all because of hypersensitive types who whine about "political correct" 24/7 and just want to hear themselves speak. 

 

One of your best posts. ;)

 

And now the question to me here is: Should I "like" my OWN response to you here and just as Jake did HIS own in his reply to another down there???  LOL

 

(...oh and yeah..."have a nice day") 

 

LOL...some more

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