Okay...question: Why was it while watching Robert Ryan and Ward Bond traipsing through the snow last night...

[Dargo]

...I thought of Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint being chased down George Washington's face by Martin Landau???

 

(...the answer of course is: 'Cause Bernard Herrmann knew he was onto somethin' pretty good when he wrote that musical score for ON DANGEROUS GROUND in '51) 

 

[mrroberts]

Of a similar note (pun intended) while I was watching our man George Raft in action in the noir film RED LIGHT (a rather good noir that I never saw before )  I saw glimpses of Burt and Kirk fighting the bad guys in GUNFIGHT AT THE O K CORRAL. Maybe because Dimitri Tiomkin  used some of the same musical segments in both films.

[mrroberts]

And Bernard Herrmann recycled more than a little of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL music for  Hitchcock's VERTIGO.  Man, I hope that Hitch knew he was getting "recycled" music when he hired that guy

[Richard Kimble]

When I first saw The Jayhawkers something seemed awfully familiar...

https://youtu.be/30PN6FBhQxY?t=346

 

Then I realized, Jerome Moross believed in Waste Not, Want Not:

https://youtu.be/TkAk_JCe9XQ

[scsu1975]

Of a similar note (pun intended) while I was watching our man George Raft in action in the noir film RED LIGHT (a rather good noir that I never saw before )  I saw glimpses of Burt and Kirk fighting the bad guys in GUNFIGHT AT THE O K CORRAL. Maybe because Dimitri Tiomkin  used some of the same musical segments in both films.

Speaking of Red Light, Tiomkin used a theme from It's a Wonderful Life during the climax.  It was the same theme he used when George Bailey was on the bridge praying for Clarence to help him.

[LornaHansonForbes]

Speaking of Red Light, Tiomkin used a theme from It's a Wonderful Life during the climax. It was the same theme he used when George Bailey was on the bridge praying for Clarence to help him.

RED LIGHT was a strange movie all around. I don't know much about music, but i recall a LOT of refrains from AVE MARIA whenever George started thinking about his departed priest brother, and I recall it being used heavily throughout the finale. Honestly: it got to be a little hokey.

 

But it was still a really interesting film. Weird, but interesting (in spite of Raft.)

[LornaHansonForbes]

(...and I have to admit, I've always thought the musical score was a little TOO BIG for a small, but good, and rather intimate film like ON DANGEROUS GROUND. In fact, it's my only complaint about the movie.)

[Richard Kimble]

(...and I have to admit, I've always thought the musical score was a little TOO BIG for a small, but good, and rather intimate film like ON DANGEROUS GROUND. In fact, it's my only complaint about the movie.)

 

Herrmann himself disagreed -- he felt it was his best score

[HoldenIsHere]

And Bernard Herrmann recycled more than a little of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL music for  Hitchcock's VERTIGO.  Man, I hope that Hitch knew he was getting "recycled" music when he hired that guy

 

On the subject of recycled music, Frank DeVol recycled the musical stinger that accents the moment in THE LEGEND OF LYLAH CLARE when Elsa steps into Lylah's footprints outside Grauman's Chinese Theater (and other dramatic moments in the movie) for THE BRADY BUNCH Hawaii episodes.

This bit of music ("Oo-ee-oo-ee-oo WAH!") is used to accent the tiki statue that brought the Bradys so much bad luck, including Greg's near-fatal surfing wipeout and Alice's back injury during her hula lesson.

[LornaHansonForbes]

Herrmann himself disagreed -- he felt it was his best score

well, it may well have been his best or his favorite score, but that doesn't mean that it fits the scale of the film, which in spite of the vast landscape on which it takes place, is (at least in my opinion) a small, intimate story with basically three characters- and it's largely a first-person study of Robert Ryan's detective character. it's a big big score with a quality to it that, well, one could describe as slightly bombastic, and to me is just too big for the small black and white, intimate film that is ON DANGEROUS GROUND.

[Dargo]

(...and I have to admit, I've always thought the musical score was a little TOO BIG for a small, but good, and rather intimate film like ON DANGEROUS GROUND. In fact, it's my only complaint about the movie.)

 

Actually Lorna, I kind'a see what ya mean here and must admit I too shared this feeling to a small degree while watching this film the other night.

 

Do you perhaps think knowing beforehand that this particular score of Herrmann's is most associated with Hitchcock's "big" production of NBNW, that perhaps there's a subconscious tendency to feel this way about it being used in Nicholas Ray's smaller production?

 

(...that would be my guess anyway)

[LornaHansonForbes]

Actually Lorna, I kind'a see what ya mean here and must admit I too shared this feeling to a small degree while watching this film the other night.

 

Do you perhaps think knowing beforehand that this particular score of Herrmann's is most associated with Hitchcock's "big" production of NBNW, that perhaps there's a subconscious tendency to feel this way about it being used in Nicholas Ray's smaller production?

 

(...that would be my guess anyway)

well, if this is any help, when I first saw ON DANGEROUS GROUND, I was watching it first and foremost because it was a Nicolas Ray film and secondly because it had Ida Lupino and Robert Ryan together. I don't think I even realized Bernard Herrmann scored it and I recall thinking to myself as the opening credits unfolded "wow this is a really big powerful, intense score" and as I watch the rest of the film my feelings that the size of the score did not match the size of the production were reinforced. I also have to add that I first saw ODG via a Netflix DVD that came through the mail, & I kept it for a week and watched it a couple times maybe even three. And each time I walked away with the feeling "nice film, nice score, but somehow the two just don't match one another."

[LornaHansonForbes]

THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR - containing the other alleged personal favorite of Herrman's scores- is on right now, & I think it is a wonderful example of a terrific score that stands alone on its own merits, yet fits the film which it accompanies like a glove.

[scsu1975]

After viewing On Dangerous Ground via TCM On Demand, I can state that, although there is some similarity to Herrmann's score for North by Northwest, the only cue I noticed which was an exact duplicate came early on in the film, as we see Robert Ryan and Ian Wolfe driving over a bridge. That cue is the same one Herrmann used when Cary Grant was being driven onto the Townsend estate.  Herrmann also used a short theme for Ida Lupino which was reminiscent of the theme from Marnie.

[Hibi]

I was so ticked I missed the last half or Red Light due to a remote glitch. I hope TCM shows it again. The first part was interesting. Bummed.

 

Yes, I noticed the similar cues in the score.........(the other film)

[LornaHansonForbes]

I was so ticked I missed the last half or Red Light due to a remote glitch. I hope TCM shows it again. The first part was interesting. Bummed.

 

Yes, I noticed the similar cues in the score.........(the other film)

RED LIGHT was a weird weird movie. Not bad, but weird. the thing I most remember would be a lot of the unusual camera angles and movements that the director uses, in fact there was one really tight zoom-in on George Raft that reminded me quite a bit of the famous zoom Spielberg used years later in JAWS where the camera zooms in tightly on Roy Scheider as the young boy on the beach is eaten.

 

(there is probably a more technical term for it that I don't know.)

 

The other thing about RED LIGHT that struck me as odd was that Virginia Mayo is in the film for maybe all of 10 minutes- possibly even less. That's really strange because she was at the absolute peak of her stardom and this was her follow-up to WHITE HEAT.

 

(I sometimes wonder if maybe they had a hard time getting female actors to work opposite Raft.)

[Hibi]

RED LIGHT was a weird weird movie. Not bad, but weird. the thing I most remember would be a lot of the unusual camera angles and movements that the director uses, in fact there was one really tight zoom-in on George Raft that reminded me quite a bit of the famous zoom Spielberg used years later in JAWS where the camera zooms in tightly on Roy Scheider as the young boy on the beach is eaten.

 

(there is probably a more technical term for it that I don't know.)

 

The other thing about RED LIGHT that struck me as odd was that Virginia Mayo is in the film for maybe all of 10 minutes- possibly even less. That's really strange because she was at the absolute peak of her stardom and this was her follow-up to WHITE HEAT.

 

(I sometimes wonder if maybe they had a hard time getting female actors to work opposite Raft.)

 

 

That is odd about Mayo. I hope I dont have to wait a year before TCM runs it again. Nothing worse than not seeing the end of a mystery film!!!

[LornaHansonForbes]

That is odd about Mayo. I hope I dont have to wait a year before TCM runs it again. Nothing worse than not seeing the end of a mystery film!!!

well, if it means anything to you: it has a rather predictable ending (at least from the perspective of the last five minutes or so.)

 

but the climax is pretty well done and clearly cost a whole lot of money to do, and is rather unique for a film noir.

 

(sorry: I'm not making you feel any better about missing it am I?)

[JamesJazGuitar]

RED LIGHT was a weird weird movie. Not bad, but weird. the thing I most remember would be a lot of the unusual camera angles and movements that the director uses, in fact there was one really tight zoom-in on George Raft that reminded me quite a bit of the famous zoom Spielberg used years later in JAWS where the camera zooms in tightly on Roy Scheider as the young boy on the beach is eaten.

 

(there is probably a more technical term for it that I don't know.)

 

The other thing about RED LIGHT that struck me as odd was that Virginia Mayo is in the film for maybe all of 10 minutes- possibly even less. That's really strange because she was at the absolute peak of her stardom and this was her follow-up to WHITE HEAT.

 

(I sometimes wonder if maybe they had a hard time getting female actors to work opposite Raft.)

 

It is strange that Mayo is in this non Warner Brothers picture since she was under contract with WB.    I assume she was 'traded' for another United Artist star?     Raft was no longer under contract for WB at the time.   Note the issue wasn't their height since Mayo was 5-5 and Raft 5-7.    So no ditch was required for Mayo  (well as long as she didn't wear heals)!

[LornaHansonForbes]

It is strange that Mayo is in this non Warner Brothers picture since she was under contract with WB. I assume she was 'traded' for another United Artist star? Raft was no longer under contract for WB at the time. Note the issue wasn't their height since Mayo was 5-5 and Raft 5-7. So no ditch was required for Mayo (well as long as she didn't wear heals)!

oh, okay. For some reason I thought this was a Warner Brothers film, but now I remember seeing the United Artists logo. Yeah maybe there was some sort of a backroom deal worked out.

 

thanks for the FYI.

[scsu1975]

It is strange that Mayo is in this non Warner Brothers picture since she was under contract with WB.  

Obviously, Warner Brothers decided to hold the mayo.

[Bogie56]

Is this on topic? ...

Another Bernhard Herrmann score that completely overpowers the movie is The Naked and the Dead (1958).  But in its case, it didn't bother me one bit as I could at least enjoy one aspect of the movie.

[HoldenIsHere]

Is this on topic? ...

Another Bernhard Herrmann score that completely overpowers the movie is The Naked and the Dead (1958).  But in its case, it didn't bother me one bit as I could at least enjoy one aspect of the movie.

 

This reminds me of my mother telling me about the first time she saw STAR WARS.

A little ways into the movie she realized that she hated it but decided that she would try to enjoy John Williams's score, but she ended up falling asleep. 

[Dargo]

This reminds me of my mother telling me about the first time she saw STAR WARS.

A little ways into the movie she realized that she hated it but decided that she would try to enjoy John Williams's score, but she ended up falling asleep. 

 

Wait, Holden! You say your Mom fell asleep while watching STAR WARS?!

 

Your story here is reminding me of an old Dick Van Dyke Show episode in which Rob is detained by the police as a suspect in a crime, but he keeps insisting that during the time the crime was committed, he was in a movie theater watching THE GUNS OF NAVARONE. When a doubtful police interrogator then asks him to explain the plot of that movie to him and in order to verify his statement, Rob says he can't because he fell asleep right after it started.

 

The incredulous cop then replies, "You fell asleep during THE GUNS OF NAVARONE?"

 

(...I love that sitcom)

[Bogie56]

Wait, Holden! You say your Mom fell asleep while watching STAR WARS?!

 

Your story here is reminding me of an old Dick Van Dyke Show episode in which Rob is detained by the police as a suspect in a crime, but he keeps insisting that during the time the crime was committed, he was in a movie theater watching THE GUNS OF NAVARONE. When a doubtful police interrogator then asks him to explain the plot of that movie to him and in order to verify his statement, Rob says he can't because he fell asleep right after it started.

 

The incredulous cop then replies, "You fell asleep during THE GUNS OF NAVARONE?"

 

(...I love that sitcom)

I fell asleep during a screening of a Chuck Norris movie.  And Chuck was sitting several rows behind me.